17:45:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #a11yedge
17:45:49 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/18-a11yedge-irc
17:45:49 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:45:50 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
17:46:02 <janina> Meeting: A11yEdge Teleconference
17:46:10 <janina> Date: 18 Dec 2023
17:46:49 <janina> agenda?
17:46:54 <janina> Chair: Janina
17:47:06 <janina> agenda+Welcome & Introductions (As needed)
17:47:26 <janina> agenda+Logistic Planning: Next Meeting January 8
17:47:57 <janina> agenda+Capibilities Reflow Redesign: Continuing Discussion
17:48:10 <janina> agenda+Actions & Followups
17:48:16 <janina> agenda+Be Done
18:02:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #A11yedge
18:02:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
18:09:23 <jasontaylor> jasontaylor has joined #A11yedge
18:09:37 <jasontaylor> hello
18:09:39 <janina> present+
18:09:47 <jasontaylor> present
18:09:53 <jasontaylor> present+
18:10:43 <janina> zakim, next item
18:10:43 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Welcome & Introductions (As needed) -- taken up [from janina]
18:11:21 <janina> We introduce ourselves to Jason -- Reget more of us aren't in channel!
18:14:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> The Overlay Capabilities draft report, https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/
18:17:12 <janina> Jason introduces himself
18:32:42 <janina> q?
18:35:29 <janina> zakim, next item
18:35:29 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Logistic Planning: Next Meeting January 8 -- taken up [from janina]
18:36:04 <janina> Short break for the winter hollidays (northern hemisphere!)
18:36:09 <janina> zakim, next item
18:36:09 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, janina
18:36:17 <janina> zakim, close this item
18:36:17 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
18:36:18 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:36:18 <Zakim> 3. Capibilities Reflow Redesign: Continuing Discussion [from janina]
18:36:23 <janina> zakim, next item
18:36:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Capibilities Reflow Redesign: Continuing Discussion -- taken up [from janina]
18:37:13 <janina> scribe+
18:37:35 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Heard difference componants different from html/css remediation
18:38:01 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Also heard "overlays" being used polemically, and it's been confusing the wider debate
18:39:07 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Notes view of using a11y service as another expert service similar to using someone's shopping cart and payment service, etc
18:39:42 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Notes the Capabilities doc should be a kind of "ingredients list"
18:40:51 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
18:42:00 <janina> jasontaylor: Sees 10-20K websites as being most important to people; all could be a11y if dev teams could fix only a11y issues
18:42:42 <janina> jasontaylor: What the "overlay providers" do is a dev process, can be done by anyone; i.e. a specialty department of a health care provider/insurer
18:43:13 <janina> jasontaylor: Companies that won't that to be the future are suggesting this is not the direction a11y should go
18:43:24 <janina> jasontaylor: Instead, they're selling different product
18:43:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> jasontaylor: The traditional approach insists on yoking everyone at the company
18:43:42 <janina> jasontaylor: Ability to inject isn't new; it's 20-years old
18:44:09 <janina> jasontaylor: Many early deployments called "overlay" were just poor technology implementation
18:44:35 <janina> jasontaylor: The dev process allows expertise to come to bear on the overall product, and that's efficient and cost effective
18:45:14 <janina> jasontaylor: Most seem to want to take people out of the process and use as much AI as possible; not our model!
18:45:38 <janina> jasConversation should be should authors have tech at their disposal to best meet user needs
18:47:30 <janina> jason; "another client version" is what people seem to object to
18:49:25 <janina> jason: Am reading Capibilities
18:49:34 <janina> [lionel shows reorg via Figjam]
18:55:38 <janina> jason: Most devs can do a11y once trained; but most don't want to stay in that field day in and day out. Likely not.
18:59:00 <janina> jason: Lawsuits currently drive a11y work
19:00:02 <janina> jason: If AI can do 95% of what's needed, but the 5% it doesn't do is critical for some
19:04:25 <janina> jason: Believe this approach can empower a centralized organization a11y; so decentralization may not be helpful terminology
19:04:44 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
19:04:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/18-a11yedge-minutes.html janina
19:06:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> jasontaylor: This model does not have to be provided by an external vendor
19:06:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... it can be done by an internal team
19:06:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... it is not necessarily an architecture of center vs edge
19:06:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... it is the taking of a small team of experts who can have cross-organizational influence
19:07:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... empower a centralized expert team to take control of the accessibility across an entire company
19:07:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the rest of the community has thrown shade on this technology
19:07:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... but the technology is very powerful
19:08:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
19:08:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/18-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
19:09:44 <janina> zakim, end meeting
19:09:44 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Lionel_Wolberger, janina, jasontaylor
19:09:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:09:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/18-a11yedge-minutes.html Zakim
19:09:53 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, janina; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
19:09:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #a11yedge
19:13:57 <janina> rrsagent, bye
19:13:57 <RRSAgent> I see no action items