14:55:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:55:07 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-wcag2ict-irc
14:55:07 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:55:08 <Zakim> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:55:15 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
14:55:15 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:55:22 <maryjom> chair: Mary Jo Mueller
14:55:29 <maryjom> meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:55:34 <maryjom> Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
14:55:36 <Zakim> ok, maryjom
14:55:44 <maryjom> Agenda+ Announcements
14:56:22 <maryjom> Agenda+ AG WG comments on our content review
14:56:40 <maryjom> Agenda+ Public comments (and upcoming survey to review proposed responses)
14:57:00 <maryjom> Agenda+ Survey results: Review of remaining new term definitions
14:57:16 <maryjom> Agenda+ Survey results: Reopened survey on Closed Functionality Bullets
14:57:37 <FernandaBonnin> FernandaBonnin has joined #WCAG2ICT
14:59:21 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:23 <FernandaBonnin> present+
15:01:01 <Mike_Pluke> present+
15:01:11 <maryjom> present+
15:01:42 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:01 <olivia> olivia has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:07 <olivia> present+
15:02:45 <ShawnT> present+
15:02:51 <Chuck> Chuck has joined #wcag2ict
15:03:09 <loicmn> loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
15:03:37 <Chuck> present+
15:04:04 <shadi> shadi has joined #wcag2ict
15:04:12 <shadi> present+
15:04:47 <loicmn> present+
15:05:03 <shadi> scribe: shadi
15:05:08 <mitch11> mitch11 has joined #wcag2ict
15:05:11 <mitch11> present+
15:05:27 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:05:27 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:05:30 <maryjom> present+
15:05:36 <Laura_Miller> Laura_Miller has joined #WCAG2ICT
15:05:38 <Laura_Miller> present+
15:05:51 <shadi> MJM: last meeting of the year
15:06:11 <Chuck> +1 I can meet on the 4th
15:06:15 <shadi> ...seems people back during 1st week of Jan
15:06:25 <Chuck> q+
15:06:26 <shadi> ...next meeting is Jan 4
15:06:37 <shadi> ...only have Jan to get new content
15:06:48 <shadi> ...need all the meetings we can get
15:07:13 <shadi> ...are folks open to have an extra meeting per week?
15:07:25 <Laura_Miller> +1 to extra meeting or scheduled work time
15:07:32 <shadi> ...or other suggestions to get things moving more quickly
15:07:34 <maryjom> ack Chuck
15:08:09 <Chuck> +1 on the plan to go through surveys
15:08:10 <shadi> CA: challenging time, open for extra meeting
15:08:15 <Bryan_Trogdon> Bryan_Trogdon has joined #WCAG2ICT
15:08:22 <Bryan_Trogdon> present+
15:08:32 <mitch11> q+
15:08:41 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:09:04 <shadi> ME: no further ideas on speeding up
15:09:19 <shadi> ...deferred discussion on closed functionality
15:09:46 <shadi> ...do we need to find a solution for every technology?
15:10:06 <shadi> ...i really like deadlines
15:10:14 <shadi> ...and to assign things to people
15:10:58 <Devanshu> Devanshu has joined #wcag2ict
15:11:09 <shadi> MJM: deadlines often help
15:11:11 <Devanshu> present+
15:11:21 <shadi> ...also need to focus on closed functionality
15:11:43 <shadi> ...need to provide guidance here
15:12:00 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:12:00 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- AG WG comments on our content review -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:12:15 <maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Please+Review%22
15:12:39 <shadi> MJM: AGWG reviewed these 5 issues
15:12:58 <shadi> ...there weren't many responses
15:13:18 <shadi> ...also for reviews from other groups
15:13:35 <shadi> ...was on the agenda this Tuesday
15:13:44 <shadi> ...and deadline was extended
15:13:57 <shadi> ...a few more comments came in as a result
15:14:16 <shadi> ...issue #270 seems to have gone through
15:15:47 <shadi> ...issue #269 has support on proposal from Mike Gower
15:16:04 <shadi> ...applies to all criteria
15:16:13 <shadi> ...but issue itself went through
15:17:00 <shadi> ...issue #268 has a proposal for a new note
15:17:10 <shadi> ...opened that as a separate issue
15:17:19 <shadi> ...will be on a group survey coming
15:17:31 <shadi> ...otherwise that issue is through as well
15:18:00 <shadi> ...issue #267 has no comments and is through
15:19:01 <mitch11> q+
15:19:01 <maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/266#issuecomment-1852426360
15:19:01 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:19:01 <shadi> ...issue #266 (parsing) has more substantial objection
15:22:41 <Chuck> q+
15:22:48 <Chuck> ack Ch
15:22:49 <maryjom> ack Chuck
15:24:07 <shadi> CA: concerned about adding an imaginary requirement
15:24:41 <mitch11> q+
15:24:51 <shadi> q+
15:24:54 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:25:22 <shadi> q-
15:25:34 <shadi> ME: agree with your responses
15:25:52 <shadi> ...think the notes qualify
15:25:53 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:26:09 <Chuck> shadi:  Mitch said what I was going to say.  I'm not seeing the issue that they are saying.
15:26:35 <Chuck> shadi:  There is not a proposal to remove 4.1.1, when I reviewed the content was clear, it was guidance for 2.2, and there was guidance for 2.1 separately.  Maybe I'm missing the point.
15:27:48 <Chuck> shadi:  Ping the chairs directly?
15:27:54 <Chuck> q+
15:28:03 <shadi> s/he chairs/Dan
15:28:40 <Chuck> s/chairs/individuals/
15:28:46 <Chuck> ack Ch
15:28:56 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:28:56 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Public comments (and upcoming survey to review proposed responses) -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:30:32 <FernandaBonnin> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/257
15:31:27 <maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/257#issuecomment-1850839486
15:32:24 <shadi> q+
15:32:26 <FernandaBonnin> q+
15:33:02 <shadi> MJM: what do we do about mobile devices that don't provide the resize capabilities
15:33:34 <shadi> ...do we need to make change?
15:33:42 <maryjom> https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#reflow
15:33:48 <shadi> ...seems people might be confused by notes 6 and 7 in particular
15:34:41 <FernandaBonnin> q-
15:34:54 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:35:25 <Chuck> shadi:  You just raised now, many different devices...  television for example, may not be considered mobile also have this limitation.  They may not support the same viewport or same assumption of a browser.
15:35:37 <Chuck> shadi:  Just in case we do make any edits, we should be aware of that.
15:36:27 <mitch11> q+
15:36:34 <shadi> MJM: wondering about this SC altogether and if consensus can be achieved
15:36:38 <loicmn> q+ to say the regulation defines deadlines for new products to meet (EAA - 28 June 2025)
15:37:00 <maryjom> q?
15:37:07 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:38:01 <shadi> ME: should answer initial question, which devices are needed for testing
15:38:16 <shadi> ...that part of the question is answered
15:38:17 <FernandaBonnin> q+
15:39:01 <shadi> ...other part of applicability is unsolved by us
15:39:06 <maryjom> ack loicmn
15:39:06 <Zakim> loicmn, you wanted to say the regulation defines deadlines for new products to meet (EAA - 28 June 2025)
15:39:38 <shadi> q+
15:40:25 <shadi> LMN: EAA focuses on new products, none of the ones mentioned in the comment
15:40:26 <maryjom> ack FernandaBonnin
15:40:35 <maryjom> q+
15:41:19 <shadi> FB: understand that we are not defining policy here
15:41:27 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:41:31 <shadi> ...but need to clarify if these examples would fail
15:41:40 <shadi> ...or if we are saying test to the closest you can
15:42:25 <Chuck> shadi:  I completely agree, I think this needs clarity.  I think its also fair to say that this criteria was written with text in mind, and that other contexts are less text heavy, and depends on application.
15:42:56 <Chuck> shadi:  ebook reader where you have more text, that's completely different...  the user need is much more relevant than on a tv or another device where text is less expected.
15:43:34 <Chuck> shadi:  I think what needs clarification is not which devices, but what we mean, even after 2025 you will have products that don't support this capability, because they are not intended for reading.
15:43:41 <mitch11> q+
15:43:47 <loicmn> q+
15:43:47 <maryjom> ack maryjom
15:44:25 <shadi> MJM: took some notes here
15:44:32 <shadi> ...not defining policies
15:44:57 <shadi> ...legacy products is a moot discussion
15:45:17 <shadi> ...also can't say what to specific devices to test with
15:45:40 <shadi> ...typically think about text-heavy content
15:45:49 <shadi> ...that is the point of this SC altogether
15:46:05 <shadi> ...do we need any further clarification?
15:46:16 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:46:22 <shadi> ...i believe our guidance clarifies this
15:46:57 <shadi> ME: agree with point raised by shadi
15:47:15 <shadi> ...but text appears on many types of apps
15:47:39 <Chuck> +1 on exploring a closed interpretation
15:47:42 <Chuck> q+
15:48:05 <shadi> ...if particular platform or device does not have this capability, maybe we can consider this closed functionality?
15:48:22 <maryjom> ack loicmn
15:48:28 <shadi> ...the platform doesn't allow the user to choose that size
15:48:57 <FernandaBonnin> q+
15:49:00 <Chuck> ack Ch
15:49:07 <shadi> LMN: think the types of applications that shadi talks about could meet the existing exception
15:49:29 <shadi> ...maybe need to change the order of the notes to make a little more clear
15:49:31 <maryjom> ack Chuck
15:49:54 <maryjom> ack FernandaBonnin
15:50:54 <shadi> FB: maybe simple clarification for the examples that Shadi gave
15:51:36 <shadi> ...switching the notes is an interesting idea to clarify
15:51:56 <shadi> ...but still not clear how close you need to get to 320
15:53:31 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:53:31 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Survey results: Review of remaining new term definitions -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:53:46 <maryjom> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-term-definitions/results
15:54:54 <loicmn> +1 to these results
15:55:16 <olivia> +1 I'm good with the results
15:55:17 <mitch11> I'm fine taking this to a vote
15:55:22 <Laura_Miller> +
15:55:23 <shadi> MJM: got only 3 results, do we accept this or re-open?
15:55:56 <maryjom> Poll: Accept the 4 new term additions 1) as-is 2) with edits 3) want more time to review
15:56:07 <olivia> 1
15:56:08 <Mike_Pluke> 1
15:56:08 <loicmn> 1
15:56:10 <Devanshu> 1
15:56:12 <Laura_Miller> 1
15:56:13 <ShawnT> 1
15:56:15 <mitch11> 1
15:57:55 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: Accept all 4 of the term definitions (encloses, focus indicator, minimum bounding box, and perimeter) proposed in the survey as-is.
15:59:03 <Chuck> Happy season and new year to everyone!
15:59:45 <Laura_Miller> you as well, all!
16:00:05 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
16:00:27 <shadi> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:00:34 <shadi> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:00:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-wcag2ict-minutes.html shadi
16:00:43 <shadi> zakim, end meeting
16:00:43 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been FernandaBonnin, Mike_Pluke, maryjom, olivia, ShawnT, Chuck, shadi, loicmn, mitch, Laura_Miller, Bryan_Trogdon, Devanshu
16:00:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:00:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
16:00:54 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, shadi; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:00:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
16:01:06 <maryjom> rrsagent, bye
16:01:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items