IRC log of apa on 2023-12-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:07:51 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-apa-irc

12:07:55 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

12:07:56 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), matatk

12:08:12 [matatk]

meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference

12:08:18 [matatk]

chair: matatk

12:08:24 [matatk]

chair: Matthew

12:08:26 [matatk]

present+

12:09:26 [matatk]

agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements

12:09:36 [matatk]

agenda+Compute Pressure CfC https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0013.html

12:09:46 [matatk]

agenda+Prospects for APA Face to Face Around CSUN?

12:09:53 [matatk]

agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues

12:10:01 [matatk]

agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open

12:10:08 [matatk]

agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates

12:10:14 [matatk]

agenda+ Other Business

12:10:21 [matatk]

agenda+ be done

12:10:28 [matatk]

agenda?

13:50:27 [Roy]

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14:56:38 [IrfanAli]

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present+

14:59:17 [janina]

agenda?

14:59:30 [janina]

present+

14:59:40 [matatk]

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14:59:43 [matatk]

present+

14:59:45 [matatk]

agenda?

14:59:55 [Roy]

present+

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present+

15:02:16 [mike_beganyi]

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present+

15:03:22 [mike_beganyi]

scribe+

15:03:32 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, take up item 1

15:03:32 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from matatk]

15:03:45 [Lionel_Wolberger]

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15:03:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]

present+

15:03:54 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, who is here

15:03:54 [Zakim]

Lionel_Wolberger, you need to end that query with '?'

15:03:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, who is here?

15:03:56 [Zakim]

Present: matatk, IrfanAli, janina, Roy, PaulG, mike_beganyi, Lionel_Wolberger

15:03:59 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Lionel_Wolberger, mike_beganyi, PaulG, matatk, IrfanAli, Roy, RRSAgent, Zakim, kirkwood, janina, sonicscrewdriver, imlostlmao, gonzu_15, M2cshkpcgrp, joraboi445,

15:03:59 [Zakim]

... SintayewGashaw, slightlyoff, gb, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot

15:04:03 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: going to add New Charters to review, since we have one new one

15:04:26 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, take up next item

15:04:26 [Zakim]

agendum 1 was just opened, mike_beganyi

15:04:31 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:04:31 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

15:04:32 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:04:32 [Zakim]

2. Compute Pressure CfC https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0013.html [from matatk]

15:05:06 [Roy]

zakim, next item

15:05:06 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Compute Pressure CfC https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0013.html -- taken up [from matatk]

15:05:07 [mike_beganyi]

janina: CFC will be expiring at midnight tonight

15:05:16 [niklasegger]

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15:05:17 [Fredrik]

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present+

15:05:18 [mike_beganyi]

janina: CFC will be expiring at midnight tonight

15:05:21 [niklasegger]

present+

15:05:36 [mike_beganyi]

janina: midnight Boston time

15:06:32 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:06:32 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

15:06:32 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:06:32 [Zakim]

3. Prospects for APA Face to Face Around CSUN? [from matatk]

15:06:42 [matatk]

topic: New Charters Review

15:06:46 [Roy]

subtopic: Web Identity Credential Working Group Charter

15:06:46 [Roy]

- charter: https://github.com/fedidcg/fedidcg.github.io/blob/main/charters/Proposed-WG-WebIdentityCredentials.md

15:06:46 [Roy]

- issue: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/427

15:06:47 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/427 -> Issue 427 [wg/wic] Web Identity Credential Working Group Charter (by plehegar) [Security] [Horizontal review requested] [security-tracker] [Advance Notice Sent] [charter]

15:07:07 [matatk]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:07:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-apa-minutes.html matatk

15:07:16 [mike_beganyi]

Roy: Web identity Credential Working Group. New group at W3C

15:07:45 [mike_beganyi]

Roy: authorization for the web. I read their documents and a11y is not mentioned in the charter

15:08:06 [matatk]

q+

15:08:55 [mike_beganyi]

Roy: they try to use some new web feature within browser to support authentication flow.

15:09:03 [Leandro]

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15:09:40 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: starting with what's out of scope. the designing of new authentication methods and credentials formats is all out of scope.

15:10:13 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: authentication and authorization are different. authentication is proving you are who you say. authorization is checking that the person you say you are has access. two different things

15:10:55 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: struggling to pick out exactly what the group will be doing.

15:11:06 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: seems like credential status, API...

15:13:30 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: with anything new like this, it's best to be cautious and ask for coordination as necessary. I think it might be beneficial for us to ask to talk with them so we can learn more about what they're working on

15:13:42 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: I don't object to this as an APA co-chair

15:13:56 [janina]

q?

15:14:06 [janina]

q+

15:14:11 [mike_beganyi]

ack matatk

15:14:59 [mike_beganyi]

Lionel_Wolberger: we do wish to ensure they have front of mind experience of a11y, particularly time-based and memory limitations as articulated by relationship with COGA

15:15:02 [Leandro_]

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15:15:12 [matatk]

ack me

15:15:14 [matatk]

ack janina

15:15:18 [Fredrik]

q+

15:15:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]

scribe+

15:15:31 [mike_beganyi]

janina: basically Lionel's point. we will surface requirements that we have their API support time limitations, etc.

15:15:52 [Leandro__]

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15:15:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel_Wolberger: [Noting that 'memory' referred to here is the user's biological memory, not device memory]

15:16:22 [Fredrik]

q-

15:16:45 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: don't think we can approve this right away

15:17:03 [PaulG]

q+

15:17:17 [matatk]

ack PaulG

15:18:31 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: at a minimum, we want them to reference 3.3.8 (WCAG 2.2) double AA. they should be able to reach AAA (3.3.9)

15:19:42 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: 2.2.5 is AAA*

15:20:18 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel: We respectfully suggest that the Web Identity Credential Working Group Charter add to the list of W3C Groups the APA-WG.

15:20:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... Justification: We seek to ensure that accessibility is kept front of mind, as authentication timing and the reliance on short term memory are known and thorny topics for people with disabilities;

15:20:33 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... APA can represent these issues that have been raised in COGA and AGWG

15:20:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... We'd like them to at minimum to reach 3.3.8 WCAG Authentication criteria

15:21:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... and ideally to reach the 2.2.5 AAA requirement

15:21:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... [thanks to Paul for those WCAG citations]

15:21:34 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... 3.3.9 is also relevant to the solving of puzzles, another challenge to COGA

15:24:13 [Fredrik]

+1

15:24:13 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: do we support the above statement?

15:24:13 [matatk]

+1

15:24:13 [PaulG]

+1

15:24:13 [mike_beganyi]

+1

15:24:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]

+1

15:24:13 [niklasegger]

+1

15:24:13 [Leandro__]

+1

15:24:13 [Fredrik]

+1

15:24:13 [Roy]

+1

15:24:32 [janina]

+1

15:24:32 [IrfanAli]

+1

15:24:53 [mike_beganyi]

Leandro__: do we need to type anything in IRC to be noted as present?

15:25:03 [Leandro__]

present+

15:26:13 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, next item

15:26:13 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- Prospects for APA Face to Face Around CSUN? -- taken up [from matatk]

15:26:13 [matatk]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:26:14 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-apa-minutes.html matatk

15:26:50 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: need to ask in our TFs so we can make plans. will there be enough of us at CSUN to warrant getting a room to do APA work in?

15:29:33 [Leandro__]

I won't go

15:29:43 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: it appears that there is interest but most members on the call cannot confirm just yet

15:29:53 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, next item

15:29:53 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from matatk]

15:30:37 [PaulG]

https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9398

15:30:38 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9398 -> Issue 9398 [css-zoom?] Zoom and CSSOM (by emilio)

15:30:53 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: there was a draft/statement on Zoom I'm trying to understand. (Zoom as in the CSS property.) Has to do with how position is calculated through API

15:31:29 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: gist is that they wanted to be more accurate. need some time to look into it further

15:32:03 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: complicated to think about. they want consistency throughout APIs. the handling is different depending on browser. they're choosing the non-zoomed positions to be reported by the API.

15:32:12 [matatk]

q+

15:32:23 [mike_beganyi]

ack mat

15:33:00 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: it does make sense to me but I assume that zoom is applied equally all over the page. it's not like zooming is going to change relative proportions.

15:33:09 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: would like to see a demo to more fully understand

15:33:35 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: it affects the transform Scalable of a page. can have something on regular and 2.5 zoom adjacent to each other

15:35:02 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: could be simply a caveat as to how it could be used. lots to consider.

15:35:22 [PaulG]

https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6026

15:35:23 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6026 -> Issue 6026 [css-values] Use of 100vw is causing pointless horizontal scrollbars on some websites (by simevidas) [css-values-3] [Agenda+] [Closed Accepted by CSSWG Resolution] [css-values-4] [Needs Edits]

15:36:26 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: usage of 100% width causes scroll bars to appear in some websites. all about scroll bars and how much space they take up. can be very difficult to implement consistently. gutter width will be preserved from 100p width in certain configurations.

15:36:49 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: scroll bar gutter. there's stable and stable Both. in these cases 100p will go 100% of the width minus the scrollbar

15:37:50 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: earlier in web, scroll bars were opaque. nowadays, scroll bars can be transparent since some of the site is being rendered underneath the scroll bar

15:39:22 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: to me, this seems clearer than the zoom property. I'm curious about how zoom is going to work

15:40:31 [mike_beganyi]

PaulG: not seen as a hindrance for a11y at this point

15:40:36 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, next item

15:40:36 [Zakim]

agendum 5 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from matatk]

15:41:04 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: any open actions to declare?

15:41:51 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: the stated timelines for pronunciation need to be extended because CR was hoped for by end of year

15:43:06 [mike_beganyi]

Roy: if there is a resolution from the TF about the timeline, can adjust accordingly for next charter

15:43:43 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: will support reaching a new reasonable timeline. as Roy says, the update can then be made

15:46:02 [IrfanAli]

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15:46:02 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: do want to address ASAP and provide feedback quickly also

15:46:02 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, next item

15:46:02 [Zakim]

agendum 6 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from matatk]

15:46:06 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, close this item

15:46:06 [Zakim]

agendum 6 closed

15:46:08 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:46:08 [Zakim]

7. Other Business [from matatk]

15:46:11 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, next item

15:46:11 [Zakim]

agendum 7 -- Other Business -- taken up [from matatk]

15:46:24 [mike_beganyi]

matatk: intros for Leandro__

15:47:37 [PaulG]

I need to drop.

15:54:50 [Roy]

RRSAgent, make minutes

15:54:52 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-apa-minutes.html Roy

15:56:17 [mike_beganyi]

zakim, bye

15:56:17 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees have been matatk, IrfanAli, janina, Roy, PaulG, mike_beganyi, Lionel_Wolberger, Fredrik, niklasegger, Leandro__

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16:01:03 [janina]

janina has changed the topic to: APA Weekly Teleconference; Wednesday 13 December at 1500Z

16:01:15 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

16:01:21 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

16:09:05 [janina]

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