14:59:18 RRSAgent has joined #pwe 14:59:22 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-pwe-irc 14:59:23 rrsagent, make logs public 14:59:33 zakim, start meeting 14:59:40 Zakim has joined #pwe 14:59:45 zakim, start meeting 14:59:45 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:59:47 Meeting: Positive Work Environment CG 15:04:47 Topic: Publishing CoC 15:05:04 tzviya: AB approved it. Other issues deferred. 15:05:19 ... Could nitpick, but better to focus on other things. 15:05:42 ... Hoped to present at TPAC. Will work w Ralph to update on website. 15:05:59 Rachel has joined #pwe 15:06:12 ... Associated Procedures page needs updating. Waiting for appointing new ombuds, which got held up. 15:06:37 .. Unsure of timing. We hav lots of doc about ombud, incl job description. Want to go forward on it. 15:07:01 ... i think we have everythign we need to publish. Need to talk how to do it. 15:07:23 ralph: This is AB work. 15:07:42 tzviya: Need to send to the AC before publishing, 4 wks before publishing. 15:07:49 q+ 15:08:10 ralph: Team should put it somewhere on the web and Coralie shoudl put out a call for review. 15:08:18 chris: It was resolved in the last AB mtg. 15:08:25 ack db 15:08:36 present+ 15:09:07 s/Coralie/the Comm Team (w3t-comm)/ 15:09:28 ACTION: tzviya to send not to w3-comm to request AC review 15:10:25 s/sent not/send note 15:10:35 Topic: Ombuds and Procedures page 15:11:03 tzviya: Procedures page needs updating -- from the 90s. Should include a diclaimere to the AC about it being old. 15:11:30 ... We have ombud job descr but haven't recruited. Okay to move forward? 15:11:41 ... Do we need more budget approval? 15:11:49 ralph: Urgent to move forward, and we have budget. 15:12:27 tzviya: Haven't heard from Sheila for a while. Need to confirmm that she will work on this. And want to confirm w this group that docs are in shape. 15:12:33 https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/blob/main/DisputeResolution.md 15:13:01 s/aven't heard from Sheila for a while.// 15:13:40 tzviya: Changing title to Incident Resolution. Other than that, are we okay with it? 15:13:45 q+ 15:13:49 ack dbooth 15:13:57 q+ 15:14:18 scribe+ 15:14:33 DBooth: as I recall there were some parts not yet filled-out 15:14:49 ... but I think it's OK to publish anyway without those parts filled 15:14:50 scribe+ 15:15:21 https://www.w3.org/about/positive-work-environment/#Procedures 15:15:39 tzviya: Wonder if we should replace at least part of the Procedures page w the Incident Resolution document. 15:15:57 ... Need AB approval? 15:16:02 ralph: No, that's operational. 15:16:27 tzviya: Okay to make those changes now? 15:16:51 ralph: Suggest we propose this doc to the CEO, to revise the Procedures doc. He's interested in it. 15:16:59 ... Defer to Seth. 15:17:23 tzviya: We don't have mediation lined up. And would still be the existing ombud list. 15:18:01 ACTION: tzviya and wendy to incorporate Incident Resolution into Procedures doc 15:18:12 s/Defer/I would defer 15:19:04 rachel: Agree shouldn't publishh this. Working on incident Resolution, hard to do it on github. Suggest training of the chairs, even in community groups. 15:19:30 ... People just fling CoC and expect people to read it, but during the meeting there isn't proper CoC. 15:19:50 ... Should be somem training material or support resources in place, before making it official, to aid implementation. 15:20:06 ... Also, does budget include risk? Could lead to litigation. 15:20:37 ... Also, re recording of incidents. Need tools to record incidents. Not sure how these things gel when revising these doc. 15:20:53 .. What's the strategy of making the implementation work while we're editing? 15:21:03 ... Github is hard. 15:21:36 tzviya: We have a lot of chairs. No vetting, or limited vetting. Wendy did a chairs training during TPAC, but very few attended. 15:21:53 ... I don't think we can mke people attend. Can we? 15:22:03 q+ 15:22:13 ack Ralph 15:22:16 ... The people who attend these things are not the ones who need it most. 15:22:22 ack Rachel 15:23:00 q- 15:23:09 ralph: Re requiring training, I quibble with how much vetting chairs have, but appropriate to expect them to review CoC and take training. 15:23:13 +1 to ralph 15:23:25 rachel: I can create a quiz! (kidding) 15:24:51 q+ 15:25:20 tzviya: Re risk, good point. Years ago when we first started ombud program, I spoke to a lawyerand she asked what protectionas are in place. W3C should look into protection for ombuds, esp for something like sexual harassment case. Could be Subpoenead, etc. Need protections in place. 15:25:33 q- 15:26:01 -> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/issues/359 Confidentiality policy for CoC violations #359 15:26:11 tzviya: Re incident reporting, we won't decide that. It will be part of the ombud trainig. Juiggle confidentiality and risk of repeat offenders. 15:26:24 ... Experts will do that. 15:26:34 s/I quibble with how much vetting chairs have, but/I believe it is 15:26:35 rachel: Could we recommend tools? 15:26:43 s/expect them/expect chairs/ 15:26:57 tzviya: There are orgs that provide training. It won't be a spreadsheet. 15:27:00 s/trainig/training/ 15:27:43 ... Like the Whisper book. We cannot do something like that legally, but also have to avoid repeat offenders. 15:27:54 [I expect those who actually have Ombuds training will bring experience on appropriate confidentiality] 15:28:11 ... If soeone does something to me, and I report it, I will not record it. 15:28:27 rachel: But need to be proven before you are guilty. 15:28:39 tzviya: I don't know how to solve this. Leaving it to the mediators. 15:29:11 rachel: There's retention recruitment. Heard two incidents of people offended and left W3C. Would be good to know it happened. 15:29:27 ... But if there's a paper record, it's a doulbe eldge sword. 15:29:41 tzviya: Not necessarily something we can know about. it's an uncomfortable area. 15:30:28 rachel: Don't want repeat offenders. Eg I know in this group, one individual has been disturbing the group. 15:30:51 tzviya: Goal of ombuds is to communicate with each other to detect pattern. 15:31:06 ... They'll keep private records to detect patterns. 15:31:33 ... Eg if someon trips someone on the way to the mic, then later someone does a whoopie cushion .... 15:33:48 tzviya: Need to pivot now to Incident Resolution. Need to focus on ombuds. This group has a large remit. Need to talk about other things we're taking on. 15:34:11 topic: Other things that are in scope for this CG 15:34:13 ... Aside from CoC and associated issues, we absorbed the group called Diversity and Community 15:34:29 ... which focused on making people feel more included. 15:34:59 ... But the inclusion aspects are a big challenge at W3C. Wendy and I have worked w Community Builders group, trying to make AC forum a warmer place. 15:35:20 ... Effort a few years ago to work on BLM and others, to make W3C more inclusive. 15:35:44 ... Figuring out how to work w orgs like Grace HOpper and Girls WHo Code. Want better recruitment and coord. 15:35:53 q? 15:36:02 q+ 15:36:04 ack Rachel 15:36:45 rachel: Theres a natural Internationalization, felt a need to contribute to that. E.g. Malay language. That's a natural fit to work in that direction. 15:37:17 ... Another area like national agenda, should avoid going w that because of political and dividing people. 15:37:25 ... But I18N is part of W3c. 15:37:44 .... Differnet demographiics and gender, godo to do proactive outreach. 15:38:04 ... Could be 2024 partnership event to include those programs -- not only at TPAC 15:38:25 ... Those things can be thruougout the year if ther eis a program in place. 15:38:55 ... Important to have metrics 15:38:57 +1 to metric 15:39:16 rachel: Maybe time to come up w metric we feel comfortable to share. 15:40:06 tzviya: Few years ago we talked about diversity survey, but veryu hard to executre. If you don't write it the right way, it's offensive. 15:40:12 ... E.g., discussion about "race" 15:40:28 ... Explored how to write it, but never took off. But good idea. 15:40:48 ... W3C releases info about the team, but not about membership because it's much harder and must be voluntary. 15:41:02 .. Like the idea but need to figure out how to do it. We don't have the xpertise. 15:41:20 i|rachel: I can create a quiz|-> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/issues/151 Make CEPC chair training mandatory #151| 15:41:31 rachel: Maybe not just using survey. Sometimes in WGs they're diverse. 15:42:12 ... Can be diverse in country, maybe not gender, other things we can see. Maybe not survey but which countrya people are from, which company they're from. 15:42:45 ack Ralph 15:42:46 tzviya: Still challenging. Eg google has 400 members in W3C. Google is listed as California, but the members are from all around the world. 15:43:30 ralph: Wanted to collect more demographic info, but maybe more conservative than necessary, respecting GDPR, so reluctant to ask much detail evn though we'd love to have it. 15:43:47 ... Maybe others can advise us how to do it which still respecting privacy. 15:43:47 q+ 15:44:21 tzviya: I suspect creating an opt-in survey is not as hard as it may seem 15:44:42 chris: You can put your region on your profile, and cna troll that. 15:44:51 ... But cannot easily troll a list of all member companies. 15:45:11 ... You can get the data from HTML, but not the API. 15:45:45 tzviya: Interesting area to explore. Need to partner w the team and maybe partner w Nomensa for survey writing. 15:46:16 rachel: Maybe start thinking about how we can collect data about people joining W3C, coming to TPAC, etc. 15:46:35 q- 15:46:41 ... Get some data points. I think a survey is the only way. 15:47:19 tzviya: Wendy and i need to suggest priorities. We don't have a lot of members. Hard to get word done w so few participants. 15:48:18 ralph: Does user account profile allow preferred pronouns? I've been asking for that for years. 15:48:49 chris: I don't think so. 15:49:47 rachel: If you prioritize, want to contribute to other docs to reduce some of your load. 15:49:51 tzviya: thanks! 15:50:00 ADJOURNED 15:50:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:50:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-pwe-minutes.html dbooth 15:50:32 chair: Tzviya 15:50:42 present+ 15:50:55 present+ Rachel, Chris, Tzviya 15:50:59 zakim, end meeting 15:50:59 As of this point the attendees have been Ralph, dbooth, Rachel, Chris, Tzviya 15:51:01 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 15:51:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-pwe-minutes.html Zakim 15:51:09 I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:51:09 Zakim has left #pwe 15:51:58 Regrets: Jennifer Strickland 15:52:10 rrsagent, draft minutes v3 15:52:10 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minutes v3', dbooth. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:52:40 rrsagent, please draft minutes v3 15:52:40 I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft minutes v3', dbooth. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:53:00 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:53:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-pwe-minutes.html dbooth