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13:21:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-ag-irc
13:21:43 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:21:44 <Zakim> Meeting: AGWG Teleconference
13:22:03 <alastairc> regrets: ToddL, Makoto
13:29:28 <alastairc> agenda+ Taskforce Process Overview
13:29:41 <alastairc> agenda+ TPAC Subgroup Work
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14:20:45 <alastairc> regrets+ Bruce
14:30:07 <laura> laura has joined #ag
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15:47:12 <Chuck> agenda?
15:47:33 <Chuck> present+
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15:57:42 <laura> present+ Laura_Carlson
15:57:45 <laura> Scribe: laura
15:57:45 <alastairc> present+
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16:01:27 <Jennie> present+
16:01:32 <chiara_de_martin> present+
16:02:10 <alastairc> TOPIC: Introductions and Annoucements
16:02:25 <laura> Ac: announcemnt
16:02:26 <shadi> present+
16:02:32 <Chuck> Welcome Chiara!
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16:02:39 <mbgower> Welcome!
16:02:44 <tburtin> present+
16:02:48 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #ag
16:02:50 <laura> Chiara De Martin Fondazione: I'm a new member.
16:03:03 <Chuck> Chuck:  Chiara De Martin introductions
16:03:20 <Azlan> Azlan has joined #ag
16:03:27 <DanielHE> DanielHE has joined #ag
16:03:29 <laura> ... Looking forward to working with everyone.
16:03:29 <mbgower> present+
16:03:30 <Azlan> present+
16:03:31 <DanielHE> present+
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16:03:49 <alastairc> zakim, take up next item
16:03:49 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Taskforce Process Overview -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:03:56 <kirkwood> present+
16:03:56 <sarahhorton> present+
16:04:08 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #ag
16:04:09 <alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/wiki/WCAG-2-Task-Force-process
16:04:13 <Detlev> present+
16:04:27 <laura> ac:  Standing up WCAG 2 taskforce force.
16:04:45 <laura> ... It is a bit different.
16:04:57 <laura> ... the will have thier own process.
16:05:27 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #ag
16:05:31 <julierawe> present+
16:05:35 <StefanS> StefanS has joined #ag
16:05:38 <laura> ... will work throught WCAG 2 issues.
16:05:41 <StefanS> present+
16:05:54 <laura> ... moving away from surveys.
16:06:26 <laura> ... Issues or Pull Requests (PRs) are raised. Someone takes on issue/PR as an assignment.
16:06:36 <laura> ... When drafted, the Task Force reviews it.
16:06:45 <laura> ... When agreed, the Accessibility Guidelines Working Group review it.
16:06:56 <alastairc> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2023OctDec/0069.html
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16:07:10 <giacomo-petri> present+
16:07:24 <laura> ...2 weeks to respond.
16:07:40 <laura> ... If approved by both, it is merged / closed.
16:07:49 <laura> ... If either stage is not approved, it goes back to drafting.
16:08:25 <maryjom> maryjom has joined #ag
16:08:45 <maryjom> present+
16:08:56 <laura> ... because we have so ma ny issues we will catagoize them.
16:09:04 <GreggVan> GreggVan has joined #ag
16:09:19 <laura> ...  Normative: Errata, which would be escalated to the chairs and go through a CFC process.
16:09:19 <GreggVan> present+
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16:09:33 <laura> ...
16:09:33 <laura> Substantive: Changes that meaningfully add or alter existing guidance. New techniques, new sections in documents, concepts being added or emphasized.
16:09:44 <laura> ...Editorial: Improvements that are not intended to alter interpretation. Re-phrasing that clearly does not change meaning, but aims to improve readability or understanding of informative documents.
16:10:00 <laura> ... Bug fix: Trivial editorial corrections (e.g., typos, spelling, subject-verb agreement, punctuation), style consistency, code syntax corrections, broken links, etc. will be reported in the PR, but the work will be done as the errors are found.
16:10:30 <laura> ... Proposed response: Draft comment on issue that does not result in a change to non-normative content or interpretation.
16:10:43 <GreggVan> q+
16:10:50 <mbgower> q+
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16:10:57 <Wilco> q+
16:11:04 <laura> ... Trying to move away from surveys.
16:11:10 <alastairc> ack GreggVan
16:11:33 <laura> Gregg: Is this for wcag 2 or 3?
16:11:50 <laura> AC: wcag 2 TF.
16:12:23 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ag
16:12:27 <laura> Gregg: normative changes don't come to group?
16:12:36 <jeanne> present+
16:12:48 <Chuck> q+ to say there would be SOME announcement in a meeting
16:12:52 <laura> ... concern about anything normative that isn't brought up in meetings.
16:13:16 <laura> ... not worried about informative docs.
16:13:45 <laura> ... Moving to GitHub concerns me.
16:14:20 <laura> ... congress has a thing called concent decree.
16:14:41 <alastairc> q+ on gregg's point, and how attention is drawn to normative updates
16:14:55 <kirkwood> +1 to Gregg
16:14:57 <alastairc> ack mbgower
16:14:57 <laura> ... we should think about having something similar.
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16:15:36 <laura> Mike: anything normative will have a lot of discussion.
16:16:07 <GreggVan> q+
16:16:10 <laura> ... except when it is a typo or link not working.
16:16:38 <laura> ... don't think those need to go through full group.
16:16:52 <alastairc> ack Wilco
16:17:12 <laura> wilco: I have similar worries as Gregg.
16:17:27 <kirkwood> +1 to Wilco
16:17:36 <laura> ... Important to have visibility on this.
16:18:04 <laura> ... different mailing list concerns me.
16:18:05 <mbgower> It goes to the working group AND task force mailing lists, to clarify Wilco
16:18:37 <mbgower> q+ to say can you clarify what you mean?
16:18:39 <alastairc> ack Chuck
16:18:39 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to say there would be SOME announcement in a meeting
16:18:43 <laura> ... I like gregg's idea of having an agenda item for it.
16:18:51 <kirkwood> +1 to Gregg’s congressional methodology
16:19:24 <laura> chuck: mirrors process for other groups. This was decided on a while ago.
16:19:41 <laura> ... It will always be an agenda item.
16:20:09 <kirkwood> Suggestion: Time to speak on an agenda may need to be time boxed?
16:20:14 <alastairc> ack me
16:20:14 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to comment on gregg's point, and how attention is drawn to normative updates
16:20:29 <laura> ... We will bring it up in a meeting. Aways. Only question of how much time.
16:21:05 <laura> ac: focusing in normative. Don't anticipate doing much of that.
16:21:50 <mbgower> 20+
16:21:56 <laura> ... We have a Substantive category. Do see how this is different that having a survey.
16:22:14 <mbgower> q-
16:22:50 <laura> ... how do we make progress through 600 issues without overwehlming everyone.
16:23:20 <Wilco> q+
16:23:26 <alastairc>  ack GreggVan
16:23:31 <laura> ... want to focus on ones this feedback. Can bring normative changes to group.
16:24:04 <laura> Gregg: typo is not normative. That's okay. It's editorial.
16:25:07 <laura> ... Huge difference between tech standard and regetory standard.
16:25:37 <laura> ... pulling the normative out is a good idea.
16:25:45 <jeanne> -1 that we are special and can ignore W3C Working Group processes
16:25:56 <laura> ... have a clear subject line.
16:26:13 <alastairc> q+ to ask what would make this stand-out or be understood for what it is.
16:26:37 <alastairc> The email subject line is currently: "WCAG 2.x TF changes and proposed changes"
16:26:40 <laura> ... make sure subject line is clear on email.
16:26:47 <julierawe> +1 to Gregg on wanting clear actionable subject lines (preferably include the survey deadline)
16:27:27 <jeanne> +1 to good subject lines.
16:27:40 <laura> ... unless it is complicated absrtact them.
16:27:56 <mbgower> q+
16:28:11 <alastairc> ack Wilco
16:28:51 <laura> wilco: Separte email list for WCAG 2 or not?
16:29:08 <Bri> Bri has joined #ag
16:29:20 <laura> ac: will send to the main list but discussions on TF list.
16:30:06 <Chuck> q+ to say we will announce in meetings
16:30:42 <Bri> present+
16:31:01 <laura> ... as long as people are looking at these and giving thumbs up do we need to bring it to meeting?  Open to suggestions.
16:31:35 <laura> wilco: Important to have baseline requirement for +1's.
16:32:06 <laura> ac: That's a good point.
16:32:21 <alastairc> ack mbgower
16:32:23 <laura> mc: we have that already in the process.
16:32:48 <GreggVan> q+
16:32:51 <kirkwood> q+
16:33:09 <alastairc> zakim, close q
16:33:09 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close q', alastairc
16:33:14 <alastairc> zakim, close the queue
16:33:14 <Zakim> ok, alastairc, the speaker queue is closed
16:33:38 <kirkwood> think we should use Gregg’s congressional anaolgy. each one needs to be time-boxed properly in a meeting
16:33:47 <laura> .. 2 dozen issues each week.  Would take a lot of time on calls. Question if we want to do that.
16:34:03 <alastairc> ack me
16:34:03 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to ask what would make this stand-out or be understood for what it is.
16:34:31 <laura> ac: pleas have a look at last tuesday's email.
16:35:21 <alastairc> ack Chuck
16:35:21 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to say we will announce in meetings
16:36:06 <laura> chuck: significant items will be called attention to. Example WCAG to ICT.
16:36:50 <alastairc> ack GreggVan
16:37:00 <mbgower> For normative changes, if/when they occur, we can to put them specifically on the WG agenda.
16:37:36 <laura> Gregg: Extreme gratitude to TF.
16:38:40 <laura> ... only normative needs to be brought up. If titles are descripive that's good.
16:39:23 <alastairc> q?
16:39:28 <alastairc> ack kirkwood
16:39:45 <Wilco> q+
16:40:28 <laura> JK: Gregg had good comments. It is a time keeping issue. Should use the congress example.
16:41:10 <laura> ... Just need procedures.
16:41:43 <laura> ac: Suggestion is  for people to try it out. Repy to the email if it is not.
16:41:44 <alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/wiki/WCAG-2-Task-Force-process
16:41:46 <kirkwood> subject line of the email is important.
16:42:09 <alastairc> WCAG 2.x TF changes and proposed changes
16:42:39 <laura> ... We have an example in place. Please reply to that email.
16:42:54 <alastairc> zakim, take up next item
16:42:54 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC Subgroup Work -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:43:16 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
16:43:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-ag-minutes.html laura
16:43:41 <kirkwood> “PROPOSED CHANGE:” (?)
16:43:41 <alastairc> Keyboard Support
16:43:41 <alastairc> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BbIHra88rxtHbeBE9cqenCMYcv26ODiOonPLRdt7OHU/edit
16:43:55 <alastairc> Pointer Support
16:43:55 <alastairc> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y9ihiYAgLfR83Cu6phRuPTcBr3N9Kr_uFD9cGuxpsgc/edit
16:44:16 <alastairc> Provide Help
16:44:16 <alastairc> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vRFmF6JmftMSXAH6vapz319WWX5phs1dSrPRlcEbgz8/edit
16:47:21 <laura> s/announcemnt/announcement/
16:48:15 <laura> s/ thier / their /
16:48:44 <laura> s/throught /through /
16:49:10 <laura> s/ma ny /many /
16:49:53 <laura> s/catagoize /categorize /
16:50:47 <laura> s/concent /consent /
16:51:30 <laura> s/that having /than having /
16:51:47 <laura> s/overwehlming /overwhelming /
16:52:57 <laura> s/regetory /regulatory /
16:53:39 <laura> s/absrtact /abstract /
16:54:10 <laura> s/Separte /Separate /
16:54:29 <laura> s/anaolgy /analogy /
16:54:51 <laura> s/pleas have /please have /
16:55:19 <laura> s/descripive /descriptive /
16:55:46 <laura> s/Repy /Reply /
16:57:28 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
16:57:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-ag-minutes.html laura
17:00:36 <laura> s/anaolgy/analogy/
17:01:07 <laura> s/tuesday's /Tuesday's /
17:01:53 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-ag-minutes.html laura
17:54:03 <laura> chuck: need another week
17:54:57 <laura> ac: refined a couple outomes.
17:55:27 <laura> ... worked on 2 new outcomes. Got as farr as we can. Need research.
17:55:55 <laura> s/farr/far/
17:56:34 <laura> rm: prrety much done. Don't need to meet again.
17:56:45 <laura> s/prrety/pretty/
17:56:50 <Rachael> present+
17:56:55 <kirkwood> present+
17:57:02 <alastairc> zakim, end meeting
17:57:02 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Chuck, Laura_Carlson, alastairc, Francis_Storr, GrahamTheDev, Ben_Tillyer, dj, kevin, Jennie, chiara_de_martin, shadi, tburtin, mbgower,
17:57:05 <Zakim> ... Azlan, DanielHE, kirkwood, sarahhorton, Detlev, julierawe, StefanS, giacomo-petri, maryjom, GreggVan, jeanne, Bri, Rachael
17:57:05 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v1
17:57:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-ag-minutes.html Zakim
17:57:43 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, alastairc; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:57:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ag
17:57:43 <GreggVan> present+
17:57:43 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
17:58:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/05-ag-minutes.html laura
17:58:20 <laura> zakim, end meeting
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