IRC log of coga on 2023-12-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:09 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/04-coga-irc
13:59:13 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:59:14 [Zakim]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:59:23 [Lisa]
agenda+ updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc
13:59:37 [ran_]
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13:59:55 [Lisa]
agenda+
14:00:24 [Lisa]
agenda+ Mental health https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.6ccu1xbclbb4
14:00:52 [Lisa]
agenda+ fewer navigation areas https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.499mno2sfb
14:01:05 [Lisa]
agenda+ home button
14:01:23 [Lisa]
agenda+ make navigation simple
14:02:52 [Lisa]
agenda+ research's literature reviews https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PrlyRHkxQKdiIZDQwsgbfchNgY14o0vRT3f_L7fXlxo/edit#gid=0
14:03:34 [Lisa]
agenda order 1,6,2,3,4,5
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14:49:27 [Lisa]
Scribe: Eric
14:49:40 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:49:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/04-coga-minutes.html Lisa
14:50:45 [Lisa]
regrets+ eric, albert , jennie
14:52:21 [Lisa]
regrets+ eric, albert , jennie, niamh
14:59:16 [Lisa]
agenda+ csun
15:46:23 [Lisa]
agenda+ AG will be reviewing proposed WCAG2ICT guidance for 3.3.7 Redundant Entry, which involves a lot of rules and exceptions regarding cognitive function tests: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/269
15:46:47 [Lisa]
agenda order 1,6, 8, 2,3,4,5
15:47:31 [Lisa]
regrets+ eric, albert , jennie, niamh, EA
15:57:58 [rashmi]
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15:58:11 [rashmi]
present+
15:58:18 [Lisa]
presnt+
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16:02:16 [Lisa]
scribe+ rashmi, justien
16:02:31 [Lisa]
next item
16:02:46 [Rain]
present+
16:03:03 [JustineP]
present+
16:03:32 [rashmi]
mental health -Drafting the proposals and drafting issue papers
16:04:11 [julierawe]
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16:04:13 [rashmi]
Rashmi working on Triggers John and David on SocialMedia
16:04:14 [julierawe]
present+
16:04:24 [rashmi]
and Lisa Safety issue paper
16:04:59 [rashmi]
Rain:Structure subgroup will review feedback from Community group
16:05:16 [rashmi]
...this Thursday
16:05:19 [tburtin]
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16:05:27 [tburtin]
present+
16:06:46 [rashmi]
Julie:Next clear subgroup meeting on decemebr 14th
16:07:16 [rashmi]
...Had great meeting at Internationalization subgroup
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16:08:44 [Lisa]
next item
16:09:00 [DavidSwallow]
present+
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16:09:55 [kirkwood]
present+
16:10:12 [rashmi]
Lisa:Lisa would volunteer to add papers to the list for research papers to be reviewed
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16:11:42 [rashmi]
...Idea is to look research paper related with cognitive accessibility, learning disability, dyslexia ,dementia etc..
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16:12:39 [julierawe]
Lisa, can you share the link to that doc in IRC?
16:13:17 [rashmi]
Lisa:Asks Do people want to put down their name to choose research paper to review.
16:13:24 [julierawe]
q+
16:13:42 [Lisa]
ack next
16:13:48 [Lisa]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Cu_qVP1WBz2TbsrAjLbbeb55RAlJmu9kfHamriL1Ocs/edit#gid=1686096268
16:15:26 [rashmi]
Lisa:We have to check what have changed from last researches and what need to be updated
16:15:41 [julierawe]
q+
16:15:48 [Lisa]
ack next
16:16:24 [rashmi]
Juie:wants to check the list and will put her name down
16:17:18 [rashmi]
Lisa:Lets take and set one week to decide to choose and put name to do reviews
16:18:29 [rashmi]
Lisa:We have resarch module 8 years ago and few issue papers and we have to review and look at are they up to date and relevant
16:19:06 [rashmi]
...We are trying to evaluate how good the research are.
16:19:14 [julierawe]
q+
16:19:40 [rashmi]
...we can add new research if find some latest perspective
16:21:07 [Lisa]
ack next
16:21:38 [rashmi]
Tiffany:Is already doing papers on alternate communication so Lisa asks to add them to the list.
16:22:02 [Lisa]
ack next
16:22:25 [Lisa]
next item
16:22:37 [julierawe]
At the December 12th AGWG meeting, several WCAG2ICT items will be up for review. The item about Redundant Entry in non-web documents and software seems especially relevant to COGA. Here's the link to the item:
16:22:45 [rashmi]
Lisa:Everyone can take at least one or two research papers
16:22:50 [julierawe]
https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-3-3-7-redundant-entry-to-non-web-documents-and-software
16:23:22 [rashmi]
Julie:Redundant entry will be taken in WCAG 3
16:23:35 [rashmi]
...in the next meeting of AG
16:23:39 [julierawe]
Section title: Applying SC 3.3.7 Redundant Entry to Non-Web Documents and Software
16:23:51 [julierawe]
Primary concern: Do the last two exceptions make sense to COGA? Security measures such as preventing a password string from being shown or copied. When creating a password, it should be a unique and complex string and therefore cannot be validated by the author. If the system requires the user to manually create a password that is not displayed, having users re-validate their new string is allowed as an exception. When the previously entered [CUT]
16:24:30 [rashmi]
Julie:There are 2 exception section we have to discuss about
16:24:38 [kirkwood]
https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-3-3-7-redundant-entry-to-non-web-documents-and-software
16:25:01 [julierawe]
https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-3-3-7-redundant-entry-to-non-web-documents-and-software
16:26:47 [rashmi]
Julie:The new section covers If you are checkout process with third party authentication...
16:27:36 [rashmi]
It does cover there are three exception and as per julie she has concern about the last two
16:28:27 [kirkwood]
q+
16:29:08 [rashmi]
...the exception says that there should be no measure to prevent password from being shown that concern with cognitive disabilities
16:29:10 [Lisa]
ack next
16:29:51 [rashmi]
John:agrees with Julie that it is really matter of concern
16:30:47 [rashmi]
...but also says it covers security concerns
16:31:38 [julierawe]
https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-3-3-7-redundant-entry-to-non-web-documents-and-software
16:31:51 [Lisa]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/269 -- add your comments
16:31:57 [rashmi]
Julie:If anyone has concern can raise concern through github comments
16:33:53 [Rain]
+1 that will help
16:34:12 [rashmi]
Julie:People can also agree by providing thumbs up if they think its easy
16:36:21 [rashmi]
Julie:The very last bullet in the exception is quite confusing and not sure what are they talking about.
16:36:49 [rashmi]
...and wants to flag it
16:37:20 [rashmi]
...its very hard to propose alternate language
16:37:42 [rashmi]
John:David was involved in it and we can contact him
16:37:56 [rashmi]
...David Fazio*
16:38:37 [rashmi]
Julie:We can ask Rachael for some time to review the concern about exceptions
16:39:56 [Lisa]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/279
16:41:09 [Lisa]
ack next
16:41:15 [Lisa]
next item
16:41:45 [JustineP]
scribe: JustineP
16:43:06 [JustineP]
Rashmi: Discussing concern about home buttons and how to make them more usable
16:43:28 [JustineP]
...people generally use back or next buttons to move between pages
16:43:58 [JustineP]
...the home button should be highly visible based on research to prevent disorientation
16:44:21 [JustineP]
...bright colors or appealing icons can assist users complete a process
16:45:08 [Rain]
q+
16:45:11 [JustineP]
...Does everyone think we should add to existing pattern or add it as a new pattern?
16:45:13 [Lisa]
ack next
16:45:47 [JustineP]
Rain: The concept is good. My concern is that by specifying a home button, we are specifying a solution that might be irrelevant to a user interface.
16:46:26 [JustineP]
...One way is to have the browser behavior work as expected.
16:46:48 [JustineP]
...example is a word processing interface where a home button would be irrelevant
16:47:31 [JustineP]
...We should target what a user might expect based on user flow.
16:47:50 [JustineP]
Rashmi: Good point.
16:48:13 [JustineP]
Rain: Back function should work as expected, and then there should be a starting point that a user can return to.
16:49:07 [JustineP]
...let users go one step back (without returning to beginning of a process) and let users reset to beginning
16:49:34 [Lisa]
q?
16:49:34 [JustineP]
Rashmi: During back navigation, people keep reading through content. How can we best address?
16:50:03 [JustineP]
Lisa: Allow user to return to start of a process?
16:50:46 [JustineP]
...Does everyone agree with making this a new pattern?
16:51:01 [Lisa]
agree new pattern to make ieaserer to return to starting point
16:51:25 [JustineP]
...or do people want this merged with an existing pattern?
16:51:41 [Lisa]
https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#make-the-site-hierarchy-easy-to-understand-and-navigate-pattern
16:51:53 [JustineP]
...It could be within the site heirarchy pattern
16:52:26 [JustineP]
John K: We might be making things ambiguous between start of a process and home page
16:52:52 [JustineP]
...seems to make it less impactful
16:53:12 [JustineP]
Lisa: To confirm, you would like wording to be "start of a multi-step process"?
16:53:28 [JustineP]
John: Yes, why specify a home page?
16:53:54 [JustineP]
...seems to be simpler to focus on start of a process
16:54:21 [JustineP]
Lisa: Should we have a separate pattern to focus on home page? Having them together might be confusing.
16:54:53 [JustineP]
John: Agree
16:55:12 [Lisa]
new patern make it easy to find the home page of a process
16:55:13 [JustineP]
Lisa: To confirm, we are saying make a new pattern for finding the home page within a process
16:55:15 [Lisa]
+1
16:55:30 [JustineP]
...please vote
16:55:50 [kirkwood]
homepage/begininning
16:56:05 [Lisa]
start page or process (may be a home page)
16:56:21 [JustineP]
Rashmi: Home page of a process might be confusing
16:56:43 [Rain]
q+
16:56:46 [JustineP]
John: suggest "start of a process"
16:57:05 [rashmi]
+1 to john
16:57:25 [JustineP]
Rain: The word "page" keeps coming back into discussion, but there might not always be a page in a process. Prefer "start of a process" wording.
16:57:42 [JustineP]
...would be good to include "when relevant" where referring to a home page
16:57:58 [JustineP]
...not sure if it should be its own pattern
16:58:32 [JustineP]
...did research look at complicated processes or simple processes?
16:58:51 [JustineP]
...we might want to do additional research to ensure we are looking at future-oriented processes
16:59:18 [JustineP]
...I think we need to do more research on complex processes or qualify "when relevant" for the time being
16:59:41 [Lisa]
ack next
16:59:42 [JustineP]
Rashmi: I found articles saying the home link should be mentioned.
17:00:02 [JustineP]
...starting point (or home page) should be included in breadcrumbs
17:00:29 [JustineP]
Lisa: Let's ask Menal Health subgroup to review and provide a proposal
17:00:58 [JustineP]
...I don't think we have a concrete proposal.
17:01:40 [JustineP]
...let me know when you would like time on the agenda to review
17:01:55 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
17:01:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/04-coga-minutes.html Lisa
17:02:03 [JustineP]
s/Menal/Mental
17:02:18 [kirkwood]
present+
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