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13:59:13 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:59:14 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:59:23 <Lisa> agenda+ updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc
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13:59:55 <Lisa> agenda+
14:00:24 <Lisa> agenda+ Mental health https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.6ccu1xbclbb4
14:00:52 <Lisa> agenda+ fewer navigation areas https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.499mno2sfb
14:01:05 <Lisa> agenda+ home button
14:01:23 <Lisa> agenda+ make navigation simple
14:02:52 <Lisa> agenda+ research's literature  reviews https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PrlyRHkxQKdiIZDQwsgbfchNgY14o0vRT3f_L7fXlxo/edit#gid=0
14:03:34 <Lisa> agenda order 1,6,2,3,4,5
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14:49:27 <Lisa>  Scribe: Eric
14:49:40 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:49:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/04-coga-minutes.html Lisa
14:50:45 <Lisa> regrets+ eric, albert , jennie
14:52:21 <Lisa> regrets+ eric, albert , jennie, niamh
14:59:16 <Lisa> agenda+ csun
15:46:23 <Lisa> agenda+  AG will be reviewing proposed WCAG2ICT guidance for 3.3.7 Redundant Entry, which involves a lot of rules and exceptions regarding cognitive function tests: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/269
15:46:47 <Lisa> agenda order 1,6, 8, 2,3,4,5
15:47:31 <Lisa> regrets+ eric, albert , jennie, niamh, EA
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15:58:11 <rashmi> present+
15:58:18 <Lisa> presnt+
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16:02:16 <Lisa> scribe+ rashmi, justien
16:02:31 <Lisa> next item
16:02:46 <Rain> present+
16:03:03 <JustineP> present+
16:03:32 <rashmi> mental health -Drafting the proposals and drafting issue papers
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16:04:13 <rashmi> Rashmi working on Triggers John and David on SocialMedia
16:04:14 <julierawe> present+
16:04:24 <rashmi> and Lisa Safety issue paper
16:04:59 <rashmi> Rain:Structure subgroup will review feedback from Community group
16:05:16 <rashmi> ...this Thursday
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16:05:27 <tburtin> present+
16:06:46 <rashmi> Julie:Next clear subgroup meeting on decemebr 14th
16:07:16 <rashmi> ...Had great meeting at Internationalization subgroup
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16:08:44 <Lisa> next item
16:09:00 <DavidSwallow> present+
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16:09:55 <kirkwood> present+
16:10:12 <rashmi> Lisa:Lisa would volunteer to add papers to the list for research papers to be reviewed
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16:11:42 <rashmi> ...Idea is to look research paper related with cognitive accessibility, learning disability, dyslexia ,dementia etc..
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16:12:39 <julierawe> Lisa, can you share the link to that doc in IRC?
16:13:17 <rashmi> Lisa:Asks Do people want to put down their name to choose research paper to review.
16:13:24 <julierawe> q+
16:13:42 <Lisa> ack next
16:13:48 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Cu_qVP1WBz2TbsrAjLbbeb55RAlJmu9kfHamriL1Ocs/edit#gid=1686096268
16:15:26 <rashmi> Lisa:We have to check what have changed from last researches and what need to be updated
16:15:41 <julierawe> q+
16:15:48 <Lisa> ack next
16:16:24 <rashmi> Juie:wants to check the list and will put her name down
16:17:18 <rashmi> Lisa:Lets take and set one week to decide to choose and put name to do reviews
16:18:29 <rashmi> Lisa:We have resarch module 8 years ago and few issue papers and we have to review and look at are they up to date and relevant
16:19:06 <rashmi> ...We are trying to evaluate how good the research are.
16:19:14 <julierawe> q+
16:19:40 <rashmi> ...we can add new research if find some latest perspective
16:21:07 <Lisa> ack next
16:21:38 <rashmi> Tiffany:Is already doing papers on alternate communication so Lisa asks to add them to the list.
16:22:02 <Lisa> ack next
16:22:25 <Lisa> next item
16:22:37 <julierawe> At the December 12th AGWG meeting, several WCAG2ICT items will be up for review. The item about Redundant Entry in non-web documents and software seems especially relevant to COGA. Here's the link to the item:
16:22:45 <rashmi> Lisa:Everyone can take at least one or two research papers
16:22:50 <julierawe> https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-3-3-7-redundant-entry-to-non-web-documents-and-software
16:23:22 <rashmi> Julie:Redundant entry will be taken in WCAG 3
16:23:35 <rashmi> ...in the next meeting of AG
16:23:39 <julierawe> Section title: Applying SC 3.3.7 Redundant Entry to Non-Web Documents and Software
16:23:51 <julierawe> Primary concern: Do the last two exceptions make sense to COGA? Security measures such as preventing a password string from being shown or copied. When creating a password, it should be a unique and complex string and therefore cannot be validated by the author. If the system requires the user to manually create a password that is not displayed, having users re-validate their new string is allowed as an exception. When the previously entered [CUT]
16:24:30 <rashmi> Julie:There are 2 exception section we have to discuss about
16:24:38 <kirkwood> https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-3-3-7-redundant-entry-to-non-web-documents-and-software
16:25:01 <julierawe> https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-3-3-7-redundant-entry-to-non-web-documents-and-software
16:26:47 <rashmi> Julie:The new section covers If you are checkout process with third party authentication...
16:27:36 <rashmi> It does cover there are three exception and as per julie she has concern about the last two
16:28:27 <kirkwood> q+
16:29:08 <rashmi> ...the exception says that there should be no measure to prevent password from being shown that concern with cognitive disabilities
16:29:10 <Lisa> ack next
16:29:51 <rashmi> John:agrees with Julie that it is really matter of concern
16:30:47 <rashmi> ...but also says it covers security concerns
16:31:38 <julierawe> https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#applying-sc-3-3-7-redundant-entry-to-non-web-documents-and-software
16:31:51 <Lisa> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/269 -- add your comments
16:31:57 <rashmi> Julie:If anyone has concern can raise concern through github comments
16:33:53 <Rain> +1 that will help
16:34:12 <rashmi> Julie:People can also agree by providing thumbs up if they think its easy
16:36:21 <rashmi> Julie:The very last bullet in the exception is quite confusing and not sure what are they talking about.
16:36:49 <rashmi> ...and wants to flag it
16:37:20 <rashmi> ...its very hard to propose alternate language
16:37:42 <rashmi> John:David was involved in it and we can contact him
16:37:56 <rashmi> ...David Fazio*
16:38:37 <rashmi> Julie:We can ask Rachael for some time to review the concern about exceptions
16:39:56 <Lisa> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/279
16:41:09 <Lisa> ack next
16:41:15 <Lisa> next item
16:41:45 <JustineP> scribe: JustineP
16:43:06 <JustineP> Rashmi: Discussing concern about home buttons and how to make them more usable
16:43:28 <JustineP> ...people generally use back or next buttons to move between pages
16:43:58 <JustineP> ...the home button should be highly visible based on research to prevent disorientation
16:44:21 <JustineP> ...bright colors or appealing icons can assist users complete a process
16:45:08 <Rain> q+
16:45:11 <JustineP> ...Does everyone think we should add to existing pattern or add it as a new pattern?
16:45:13 <Lisa> ack next
16:45:47 <JustineP> Rain: The concept is good. My concern is that by specifying a home button, we are specifying a solution that might be irrelevant to a user interface.
16:46:26 <JustineP> ...One way is to have the browser behavior work as expected.
16:46:48 <JustineP> ...example is a word processing interface where a home button would be irrelevant
16:47:31 <JustineP> ...We should target what a user might expect based on user flow.
16:47:50 <JustineP> Rashmi: Good point.
16:48:13 <JustineP> Rain: Back function should work as expected, and then there should be a starting point that a user can return to.
16:49:07 <JustineP> ...let users go one step back (without returning to beginning of a process) and let users reset to beginning
16:49:34 <Lisa> q?
16:49:34 <JustineP> Rashmi: During back navigation, people keep reading through content. How can we best address?
16:50:03 <JustineP> Lisa: Allow user to return to start of a process?
16:50:46 <JustineP> ...Does everyone agree with making this a new pattern?
16:51:01 <Lisa> agree  new pattern to make ieaserer to return to starting point
16:51:25 <JustineP> ...or do people want this merged with an existing pattern?
16:51:41 <Lisa> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#make-the-site-hierarchy-easy-to-understand-and-navigate-pattern
16:51:53 <JustineP> ...It could be within the site heirarchy pattern
16:52:26 <JustineP> John K: We might be making things ambiguous between start of a process and home page
16:52:52 <JustineP> ...seems to make it less impactful
16:53:12 <JustineP> Lisa: To confirm, you would like wording to be "start of a multi-step process"?
16:53:28 <JustineP> John: Yes, why specify a home page?
16:53:54 <JustineP> ...seems to be simpler to focus on start of a process
16:54:21 <JustineP> Lisa: Should we have a separate pattern to focus on home page? Having them together might be confusing.
16:54:53 <JustineP> John: Agree
16:55:12 <Lisa> new patern make it easy to find the home page of a process
16:55:13 <JustineP> Lisa: To confirm, we are saying make a new pattern for finding the home page within a process
16:55:15 <Lisa> +1
16:55:30 <JustineP> ...please vote
16:55:50 <kirkwood> homepage/begininning
16:56:05 <Lisa> start page or process (may be a home page)
16:56:21 <JustineP> Rashmi: Home page of a process might be confusing
16:56:43 <Rain> q+
16:56:46 <JustineP> John: suggest "start of a process"
16:57:05 <rashmi> +1 to john
16:57:25 <JustineP> Rain: The word "page" keeps coming back into discussion, but there might not always be a page in a process. Prefer "start of a process" wording.
16:57:42 <JustineP> ...would be good to include "when relevant" where referring to a home page
16:57:58 <JustineP> ...not sure if it should be its own pattern
16:58:32 <JustineP> ...did research look at complicated processes or simple processes?
16:58:51 <JustineP> ...we might want to do additional research to ensure we are looking at future-oriented processes
16:59:18 <JustineP> ...I think we need to do more research on complex processes or qualify "when relevant" for the time being
16:59:41 <Lisa> ack next
16:59:42 <JustineP> Rashmi: I found articles saying the home link should be mentioned.
17:00:02 <JustineP> ...starting point (or home page) should be included in breadcrumbs
17:00:29 <JustineP> Lisa: Let's ask Menal Health subgroup to review and provide a proposal
17:00:58 <JustineP> ...I don't think we have a concrete proposal.
17:01:40 <JustineP> ...let me know when you would like time on the agenda to review
17:01:55 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
17:01:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/04-coga-minutes.html Lisa
17:02:03 <JustineP> s/Menal/Mental
17:02:18 <kirkwood> present+
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