IRC log of coga on 2023-11-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:29:16 [RRSAgent]
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14:29:20 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:29:20 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:29:25 [Zakim]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:31:23 [Lisa]
14:31:33 [Lisa]
clear agenda
14:31:52 [Lisa]
agenda+ updates and actions
14:33:27 [Lisa]
agenda+ github issues. see
14:34:19 [Lisa]
agenda+ user module update do we want to do it as a subgroup. see
14:34:41 [Lisa]
agenda+ user module next steps
15:35:17 [Lisa]
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15:35:43 [Lisa]
agenda+ non pere reviewed research (Abis email -
15:53:07 [Lisa]
15:54:42 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
15:54:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Lisa
15:58:21 [Eric_hind]
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16:01:11 [Becca_Monteleone]
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16:01:12 [Rain]
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16:01:14 [Rain]
16:01:16 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:01:19 [Eric_hind]
16:01:21 [Lisa]
scribe: becca
16:01:30 [Lisa]
scribe: Becca_Monteleone
16:01:45 [Lisa]
next item
16:02:01 [katyb]
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16:02:13 [julierawe]
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16:02:18 [julierawe]
16:02:27 [tburtin]
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16:02:28 [katyb]
16:02:33 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Mental health meeting on Thursday
16:02:35 [tburtin]
16:02:57 [Jennie]
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16:03:02 [Jennie]
16:03:14 [Rachael]
16:03:46 [Becca_Monteleone]
Rain: structure update - received a lot of feedback from community group on design draft. Will compile it and bring it back to the group. Engineer had to pause on prototype but will continue building out next week. Expect to complete by end of year and qual testing in early 2024
16:03:54 [Becca_Monteleone]
Rain: images subgroup is on pause
16:04:35 [DavidSwallow]
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16:04:40 [DavidSwallow]
16:04:53 [julierawe]
16:05:21 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie: WCAG 3 updates shared in google doc
16:07:25 [Rachael]
16:07:56 [Lisa]
ack next
16:08:01 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie: Attempting to finish exploratory drafts of WCAG 3 outcomes by end of 2023 to be compiled by AG in early 2024 and sent to COGA for review. AG will prioritize outcomes on selection criteria, including what kind of research supports this outcome. Once list of outcomes is complete, guidelines will be refined over several years
16:08:36 [Becca_Monteleone]
Rachael: outcomes without research won't be removed, they will be prioritized to have research done first
16:09:45 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie: There will be plenty of time for COGA to provide input and refining.
16:10:40 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie: Five drafts nearly ready that COGA will have chance to review in January - listed in Google doc
16:10:47 [Lisa]
16:12:09 [tburtin]
16:12:10 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie: Several drafts could use more COGA input - Consistent Design (meets Fridays); Control Semantics (meets Mondays); Non-Visual Alternatives
16:12:30 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Someone from ADAPT would be good for control semantics as well
16:12:58 [Rachael]
16:13:19 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: listed as belonging to Cognitive Load group, but has not received emails about it - how do we know when our group is meeting or if we're missing communication?
16:13:49 [Lisa]
ack next
16:13:54 [Rachael]
16:14:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
Tiffany: Been a part of prevent harm; could join consistent design too, but I need to be careful about the number of hours.
16:16:52 [Lisa]
16:17:56 [Rachael]
16:18:15 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: the reason non-visual alternatives needs COGA rep is because, for example, COGA users who use screen readers or other assistive tech use them very differently than other users with sensory disabilities
16:18:55 [katyb_]
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16:18:56 [Lisa]
ack next
16:18:58 [Lisa]
ack next
16:19:43 [Becca_Monteleone]
Rachael: Non-vis alt is also pretty far along as well - COGA perspective might be limited to just reviewing the outcomes and providing feedback. Rachael can meet and walk through
16:20:01 [Becca_Monteleone]
Tiffany was active in non-vis alt as well
16:20:35 [Becca_Monteleone]
Tiffany, Lisa, and Rachael can meet on this. Perhaps include EA as well
16:21:18 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie reviewing teams that have COGA members
16:21:45 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:23:25 [EA]
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16:23:29 [Lisa]
ack next
16:23:36 [kirkwood]
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16:23:42 [EA]
Present +
16:24:13 [Becca_Monteleone]
Document with WCAG 3 updates:
16:24:43 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Internationalization meeting on Wednesday
16:24:58 [Lisa]
16:25:26 [Becca_Monteleone]
David: no immediate APA updates but will have updates on Github issues next week
16:25:29 [Lisa]
16:25:57 [Lisa]
next item
16:26:21 [kirkwood]
16:26:28 [katyb_]
16:26:46 [Eric_hind]
16:27:27 [Eric_hind]
16:27:31 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: Issues to address: 305; 303, and 302
16:28:39 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: Issue 305 - use of term "high potential" in content usable
16:29:45 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: does this refer to high-level person or anyone in a company/customer?
16:30:38 [kirkwood]
should we simply add aging?
16:31:23 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Could refer to both; trying to deconstruct the stereotype that people with LD/ID are everywhere, including high value customers, decision-makers, etc.
16:31:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: Julie's suggested wording on Github seems to address this
16:32:31 [Becca_Monteleone]
CORRECTION: Lisa: Could refer to both; trying to deconstruct the stereotype that people with LD/ID are NOT everywhere, including high value customers, decision-makers, etc.
16:32:59 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Other bullet point in this section addresses aging.
16:33:09 [Lisa]
Julies wording +1
16:33:10 [julierawe]
16:33:16 [katyb_]
16:33:16 [Eric_hind]
16:33:16 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:33:17 [DavidSwallow]
16:33:19 [kirkwood]
16:33:20 [Jennie]
16:33:20 [Rain]
16:33:24 [EA]
16:33:27 [tburtin]
16:34:04 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: next item is Issue 303 on Github
16:34:43 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: Correction, Issue 304
16:35:40 [Rain]
16:35:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: issue - The last bullet reads "Confirm that when feedback is given, a process is in place for acting on it!" Could you please give us concrete example of "a process is in place for acting on it"?
16:36:01 [Lisa]
ack next
16:36:42 [Becca_Monteleone]
Rain: Agree that language is hard to understand. Suggests adding "and document the steps that will be taken on the feedback"
16:37:19 [kirkwood]
16:37:21 [katyb_]
16:37:22 [Rain]
16:37:22 [Eric_hind]
16:37:22 [Jennie]
16:37:23 [Lisa]
16:37:25 [Becca_Monteleone]
+1 to add example and reword
16:37:28 [julierawe]
16:37:30 [EA]
16:37:33 [julierawe]
16:37:33 [tburtin]
16:37:40 [Lisa]
ack next
16:38:15 [Lisa]
agree with julie. the point is to deal with it!
16:38:41 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie: is the goal to let the person submitting the feedback know that someone has viewed that feedback or is "documenting the steps" referring to what the organization will do internally about the feedback?
16:38:52 [EA]
Should it be both?
16:39:24 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: suggest documenting internally next steps and making publicly available?
16:39:37 [Becca_Monteleone]
John K: so it's about accountability on acting on feedback?
16:40:00 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Yes, we want to know that something happens with feedback and what happens next is publicly available
16:40:07 [EA]
Both need help and needs to be accountable +1
16:40:08 [kirkwood]
16:40:16 [DavidSwallow]
16:40:16 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:40:16 [katyb_]
16:40:17 [Rain]
16:40:18 [julierawe]
16:40:19 [Eric_hind]
16:42:05 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: Issue 302 - use of term "general population;" seems to exclude people with cognitive disabilities are not part of the general population
16:42:21 [Rain]
16:43:11 [Becca_Monteleone]
Rain: I'd recommend not using neurotypical because of feedback from community groups; many people with cognitive and learning disabilities also might consider themselves "general population"
16:43:30 [julierawe]
16:43:48 [kirkwood]
+1 to Rain
16:44:32 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie: What is the context for this statement?
16:44:57 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie: Could we reword that header?
16:45:12 [Rain]
+1 to Julie's suggestion
16:45:16 [Lisa]
+1 julie
16:45:22 [DavidSwallow]
16:45:23 [Eric_hind]
16:45:24 [Becca_Monteleone]
Julie: "Additional Consideration for User Testing with People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities"
16:45:35 [kirkwood]
+1to “considerations” per Julie
16:45:39 [katyb_]
16:45:44 [julierawe]
16:45:47 [Becca_Monteleone]
"Additional Considerations for User Testing with People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities"
16:45:49 [julierawe]
oops, +1
16:45:50 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:45:52 [Lisa]
16:46:30 [kirkwood]
+1 to conitnuing
16:48:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: Issue closed and moved to "review for next version" - issue 237
16:48:59 [Lisa]
16:51:54 [Becca_Monteleone]
Eric: will review the 14 open issues tagged "review for next version" and will bring for discussion in December
16:52:44 [Lisa]
next item
16:52:49 [Lisa]
ack next
16:52:53 [Lisa]
ack next
16:53:02 [Rain]
ack Rain
16:53:06 [Lisa]
next item
16:54:34 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Need to update research on user groups and functional needs; would it be better to create a subgroup than to assign individuals?
16:56:26 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Abbi James has asked about including papers without peer review, such as an organization's internal review
16:57:02 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Would be helpful to include, but taffed as non-peer reviewed
16:57:07 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:57:08 [Lisa]
16:57:13 [Eric_hind]
16:57:15 [Becca_Monteleone]
16:57:19 [katyb_]
16:57:20 [Rain]
16:57:34 [kirkwood]
+1 with very clear labeling
16:57:40 [EA]
Abi has a very good point but need to know how to reference these papers or articles
16:58:34 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Does anyone want to take on one of these user groups?
16:58:53 [tburtin]
16:59:18 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Will create a subgroup to better divide up this labor
16:59:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
Lisa: Will need at least 5 people in this subgroup
17:00:11 [Becca_Monteleone]
Tiffany: Coworker interested in assisting with this as a guest to COGA
17:00:55 [Becca_Monteleone]
Rachael: Should join COGA to contribute to it
17:02:13 [Jennie]
* Have to drop. Have a good week!
17:02:33 [EA]
Can we finish our issue paper and then take the research around Aphasia or Dyslexia later next year... bit much on at the moment
17:02:43 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
17:02:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Lisa
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