IRC log of coga on 2023-11-27
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:29:16 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #coga
- 14:29:20 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/27-coga-irc
- 14:29:20 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 14:29:25 [Zakim]
- Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 14:31:23 [Lisa]
- agenda?
- 14:31:33 [Lisa]
- clear agenda
- 14:31:52 [Lisa]
- agenda+ updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc
- 14:33:27 [Lisa]
- agenda+ github issues. see https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues
- 14:34:19 [Lisa]
- agenda+ user module update do we want to do it as a subgroup. see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PrlyRHkxQKdiIZDQwsgbfchNgY14o0vRT3f_L7fXlxo/edit#gid=0
- 14:34:41 [Lisa]
- agenda+ user module next steps
- 15:35:17 [Lisa]
- Lisa has joined #coga
- 15:35:43 [Lisa]
- agenda+ non pere reviewed research (Abis email - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2023Nov/0024.html
- 15:53:07 [Lisa]
- agenda?
- 15:54:42 [Lisa]
- RRSAgent, publish minutes
- 15:54:44 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/27-coga-minutes.html Lisa
- 15:58:21 [Eric_hind]
- Eric_hind has joined #coga
- 15:59:30 [JustineP]
- JustineP has joined #coga
- 16:01:11 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Becca_Monteleone has joined #coga
- 16:01:12 [Rain]
- Rain has joined #coga
- 16:01:14 [Rain]
- present+
- 16:01:16 [Becca_Monteleone]
- present+
- 16:01:19 [Eric_hind]
- present+
- 16:01:21 [Lisa]
- scribe: becca
- 16:01:30 [Lisa]
- scribe: Becca_Monteleone
- 16:01:45 [Lisa]
- next item
- 16:02:01 [katyb]
- katyb has joined #coga
- 16:02:13 [julierawe]
- julierawe has joined #coga
- 16:02:18 [julierawe]
- present+
- 16:02:27 [tburtin]
- tburtin has joined #coga
- 16:02:28 [katyb]
- present+
- 16:02:33 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Mental health meeting on Thursday
- 16:02:35 [tburtin]
- present+
- 16:02:57 [Jennie]
- Jennie has joined #coga
- 16:03:02 [Jennie]
- present+
- 16:03:14 [Rachael]
- present+
- 16:03:46 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Rain: structure update - received a lot of feedback from community group on design draft. Will compile it and bring it back to the group. Engineer had to pause on prototype but will continue building out next week. Expect to complete by end of year and qual testing in early 2024
- 16:03:54 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Rain: images subgroup is on pause
- 16:04:35 [DavidSwallow]
- DavidSwallow has joined #coga
- 16:04:40 [DavidSwallow]
- present+
- 16:04:53 [julierawe]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k8Z2DFd5HNCxNuw94izHfuS8RQBvAda1yC7yiLc3eVc/edit#heading=h.xh5qrkgp6x1d
- 16:05:21 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie: WCAG 3 updates shared in google doc
- 16:07:25 [Rachael]
- q+
- 16:07:56 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 16:08:01 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie: Attempting to finish exploratory drafts of WCAG 3 outcomes by end of 2023 to be compiled by AG in early 2024 and sent to COGA for review. AG will prioritize outcomes on selection criteria, including what kind of research supports this outcome. Once list of outcomes is complete, guidelines will be refined over several years
- 16:08:36 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Rachael: outcomes without research won't be removed, they will be prioritized to have research done first
- 16:09:45 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie: There will be plenty of time for COGA to provide input and refining.
- 16:10:40 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie: Five drafts nearly ready that COGA will have chance to review in January - listed in Google doc
- 16:10:47 [Lisa]
- q?
- 16:12:09 [tburtin]
- q+
- 16:12:10 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie: Several drafts could use more COGA input - Consistent Design (meets Fridays); Control Semantics (meets Mondays); Non-Visual Alternatives
- 16:12:30 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Someone from ADAPT would be good for control semantics as well
- 16:12:58 [Rachael]
- q+
- 16:13:19 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: listed as belonging to Cognitive Load group, but has not received emails about it - how do we know when our group is meeting or if we're missing communication?
- 16:13:49 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 16:13:54 [Rachael]
- q-
- 16:14:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Tiffany: Been a part of prevent harm; could join consistent design too, but I need to be careful about the number of hours.
- 16:16:52 [Lisa]
- q+
- 16:17:56 [Rachael]
- q+
- 16:18:15 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: the reason non-visual alternatives needs COGA rep is because, for example, COGA users who use screen readers or other assistive tech use them very differently than other users with sensory disabilities
- 16:18:55 [katyb_]
- katyb_ has joined #coga
- 16:18:56 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 16:18:58 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 16:19:43 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Rachael: Non-vis alt is also pretty far along as well - COGA perspective might be limited to just reviewing the outcomes and providing feedback. Rachael can meet and walk through
- 16:20:01 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Tiffany was active in non-vis alt as well
- 16:20:35 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Tiffany, Lisa, and Rachael can meet on this. Perhaps include EA as well
- 16:21:18 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie reviewing teams that have COGA members
- 16:21:45 [Becca_Monteleone]
- q+
- 16:23:25 [EA]
- EA has joined #coga
- 16:23:29 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 16:23:36 [kirkwood]
- kirkwood has joined #COGA
- 16:23:42 [EA]
- Present +
- 16:24:13 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Document with WCAG 3 updates: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k8Z2DFd5HNCxNuw94izHfuS8RQBvAda1yC7yiLc3eVc/edit#heading=h.xh5qrkgp6x1d
- 16:24:43 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Internationalization meeting on Wednesday
- 16:24:58 [Lisa]
- q?
- 16:25:26 [Becca_Monteleone]
- David: no immediate APA updates but will have updates on Github issues next week
- 16:25:29 [Lisa]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#heading=h.jhgeh79yam7t
- 16:25:57 [Lisa]
- next item
- 16:26:21 [kirkwood]
- present+
- 16:26:28 [katyb_]
- present+
- 16:26:46 [Eric_hind]
- https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues?page=1&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen
- 16:27:27 [Eric_hind]
- https://github.com/w3c/coga/issues/305
- 16:27:31 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: Issues to address: 305; 303, and 302
- 16:28:39 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: Issue 305 - use of term "high potential" in content usable
- 16:29:45 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: does this refer to high-level person or anyone in a company/customer?
- 16:30:38 [kirkwood]
- should we simply add aging?
- 16:31:23 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Could refer to both; trying to deconstruct the stereotype that people with LD/ID are everywhere, including high value customers, decision-makers, etc.
- 16:31:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: Julie's suggested wording on Github seems to address this
- 16:32:31 [Becca_Monteleone]
- CORRECTION: Lisa: Could refer to both; trying to deconstruct the stereotype that people with LD/ID are NOT everywhere, including high value customers, decision-makers, etc.
- 16:32:59 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Other bullet point in this section addresses aging.
- 16:33:09 [Lisa]
- Julies wording +1
- 16:33:10 [julierawe]
- +1
- 16:33:16 [katyb_]
- +1
- 16:33:16 [Eric_hind]
- +1
- 16:33:16 [Becca_Monteleone]
- +1
- 16:33:17 [DavidSwallow]
- +1
- 16:33:19 [kirkwood]
- +1
- 16:33:20 [Jennie]
- +1
- 16:33:20 [Rain]
- +1
- 16:33:24 [EA]
- +1
- 16:33:27 [tburtin]
- +1
- 16:34:04 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: next item is Issue 303 on Github
- 16:34:43 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: Correction, Issue 304
- 16:35:40 [Rain]
- q+
- 16:35:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: issue - The last bullet reads "Confirm that when feedback is given, a process is in place for acting on it!" Could you please give us concrete example of "a process is in place for acting on it"?
- 16:36:01 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 16:36:42 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Rain: Agree that language is hard to understand. Suggests adding "and document the steps that will be taken on the feedback"
- 16:37:19 [kirkwood]
- +1
- 16:37:21 [katyb_]
- +1
- 16:37:22 [Rain]
- +1
- 16:37:22 [Eric_hind]
- +1
- 16:37:22 [Jennie]
- +1
- 16:37:23 [Lisa]
- +1
- 16:37:25 [Becca_Monteleone]
- +1 to add example and reword
- 16:37:28 [julierawe]
- ?
- 16:37:30 [EA]
- +1
- 16:37:33 [julierawe]
- q+
- 16:37:33 [tburtin]
- +1
- 16:37:40 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 16:38:15 [Lisa]
- agree with julie. the point is to deal with it!
- 16:38:41 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie: is the goal to let the person submitting the feedback know that someone has viewed that feedback or is "documenting the steps" referring to what the organization will do internally about the feedback?
- 16:38:52 [EA]
- Should it be both?
- 16:39:24 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: suggest documenting internally next steps and making publicly available?
- 16:39:37 [Becca_Monteleone]
- John K: so it's about accountability on acting on feedback?
- 16:40:00 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Yes, we want to know that something happens with feedback and what happens next is publicly available
- 16:40:07 [EA]
- Both need help and needs to be accountable +1
- 16:40:08 [kirkwood]
- +1
- 16:40:16 [DavidSwallow]
- +1
- 16:40:16 [Becca_Monteleone]
- +1
- 16:40:16 [katyb_]
- +1
- 16:40:17 [Rain]
- +1
- 16:40:18 [julierawe]
- +1
- 16:40:19 [Eric_hind]
- +1
- 16:42:05 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: Issue 302 - use of term "general population;" seems to exclude people with cognitive disabilities are not part of the general population
- 16:42:21 [Rain]
- q+
- 16:43:11 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Rain: I'd recommend not using neurotypical because of feedback from community groups; many people with cognitive and learning disabilities also might consider themselves "general population"
- 16:43:30 [julierawe]
- q+
- 16:43:48 [kirkwood]
- +1 to Rain
- 16:44:32 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie: What is the context for this statement?
- 16:44:57 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie: Could we reword that header?
- 16:45:12 [Rain]
- +1 to Julie's suggestion
- 16:45:16 [Lisa]
- +1 julie
- 16:45:22 [DavidSwallow]
- +1
- 16:45:23 [Eric_hind]
- +1
- 16:45:24 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Julie: "Additional Consideration for User Testing with People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities"
- 16:45:35 [kirkwood]
- +1to “considerations” per Julie
- 16:45:39 [katyb_]
- +1
- 16:45:44 [julierawe]
- +11
- 16:45:47 [Becca_Monteleone]
- "Additional Considerations for User Testing with People with Cognitive and Learning Disabilities"
- 16:45:49 [julierawe]
- oops, +1
- 16:45:50 [Becca_Monteleone]
- +1
- 16:45:52 [Lisa]
- +1
- 16:46:30 [kirkwood]
- +1 to conitnuing
- 16:48:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: Issue closed and moved to "review for next version" - issue 237
- 16:48:59 [Lisa]
- https://github.com/w3c/coga/labels/review%20for%20next%20version
- 16:51:54 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Eric: will review the 14 open issues tagged "review for next version" and will bring for discussion in December
- 16:52:44 [Lisa]
- next item
- 16:52:49 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 16:52:53 [Lisa]
- ack next
- 16:53:02 [Rain]
- ack Rain
- 16:53:06 [Lisa]
- next item
- 16:54:34 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Need to update research on user groups and functional needs; would it be better to create a subgroup than to assign individuals?
- 16:56:26 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Abbi James has asked about including papers without peer review, such as an organization's internal review
- 16:57:02 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Would be helpful to include, but taffed as non-peer reviewed
- 16:57:07 [Becca_Monteleone]
- *tagged
- 16:57:08 [Lisa]
- +1
- 16:57:13 [Eric_hind]
- +1
- 16:57:15 [Becca_Monteleone]
- +1
- 16:57:19 [katyb_]
- +1
- 16:57:20 [Rain]
- +1
- 16:57:34 [kirkwood]
- +1 with very clear labeling
- 16:57:40 [EA]
- Abi has a very good point but need to know how to reference these papers or articles
- 16:58:34 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Does anyone want to take on one of these user groups?
- 16:58:53 [tburtin]
- q+
- 16:59:18 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Will create a subgroup to better divide up this labor
- 16:59:44 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Lisa: Will need at least 5 people in this subgroup
- 17:00:11 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Tiffany: Coworker interested in assisting with this as a guest to COGA
- 17:00:55 [Becca_Monteleone]
- Rachael: Should join COGA to contribute to it
- 17:02:13 [Jennie]
- * Have to drop. Have a good week!
- 17:02:33 [EA]
- Can we finish our issue paper and then take the research around Aphasia or Dyslexia later next year... bit much on at the moment
- 17:02:43 [Lisa]
- RRSAgent, publish minutes
- 17:02:44 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/27-coga-minutes.html Lisa
- 17:10:58 [jamesn]
- jamesn has joined #COGA