IRC log of apa on 2023-11-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:54:52 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #apa

14:54:56 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-apa-irc

14:54:56 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

14:54:57 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), matatk

14:55:01 [matatk]

agenda?

14:55:11 [matatk]

Chair:Matthew agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements agenda+Open CfC Reminder https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0000.html agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review agenda+Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-requ[CUT]

14:55:46 [janina]

regrets: Fredrik_Fischer, Niklas_Egger, Gottfried_Zimmerman

14:56:22 [matatk]

agenda?

14:56:54 [matatk]

Chair: Matthew

14:57:15 [janina]

Chair: Matthew

14:57:15 [janina]

agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements

14:57:15 [janina]

agenda+ Open CfC Reminder https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0000.html

14:57:18 [janina]

agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22

14:57:21 [janina]

agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review

14:57:29 [janina]

agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues

14:57:29 [janina]

agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

14:57:29 [janina]

agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues

14:57:31 [janina]

agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open

14:57:34 [janina]

agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates

14:57:36 [janina]

agenda+ Other Business

14:57:39 [janina]

agenda+ be done

15:02:23 [IrfanAli]

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15:02:27 [IrfanAli]

present+

15:03:16 [janina]

present+

15:04:04 [IrfanAli]

agenda?

15:04:46 [PaulG]

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15:04:53 [PaulG]

present+

15:05:58 [Roy]

present+

15:10:18 [matatk]

present+

15:11:48 [matatk]

present+ Lionel

15:12:02 [IrfanAli]

Scribe: Irfan Ali

15:12:07 [IrfanAli]

zakim, next item

15:12:07 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]

15:12:08 [Dr__Keith]

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15:12:35 [Dr__Keith]

present +

15:12:48 [Dr__Keith]

present+

15:12:55 [matatk]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:12:56 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-apa-minutes.html matatk

15:13:08 [IrfanAli]

zakim, close this item

15:13:08 [Zakim]

agendum 1 closed

15:13:09 [Zakim]

I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:13:09 [Zakim]

2. Open CfC Reminder https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0000.html [from janina]

15:13:13 [IrfanAli]

zakim, next item

15:13:13 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Open CfC Reminder https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0000.html -- taken up [from janina]

15:15:20 [IrfanAli]

matatk: CFC is still open to comment. we thought it was well written spec which promotes accessibility. Janina highlighted something that we do support. we are currently waiting for the comments.

15:15:53 [IrfanAli]

matatk: this CFC is open by end of today boston time.

15:16:47 [IrfanAli]

janina: we do have shared my feedback with few people and they responded with an idea. perhaps finding another avenue to discuss about my comments.

15:17:40 [IrfanAli]

zakim, next item

15:17:40 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]

15:18:02 [matatk]

agenda?

15:18:06 [IrfanAli]

Roy: there is nothing new from this week.

15:18:17 [Lionel]

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15:18:18 [IrfanAli]

zakim, close this item

15:18:18 [Zakim]

agendum 3 closed

15:18:19 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:18:19 [Zakim]

4. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]

15:18:32 [matatk]

zakim, close this item

15:18:32 [Zakim]

I do not know what agendum had been taken up, matatk

15:18:50 [IrfanAli]

zakim, next item

15:18:50 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]

15:18:52 [matatk]

zakim, drop item 4

15:18:52 [Zakim]

agendum 4, A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review, dropped

15:18:56 [matatk]

zakim, drop item 5

15:18:56 [Zakim]

agendum 5, Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues, dropped

15:19:04 [matatk]

zakim, drop item 6

15:19:04 [Zakim]

agendum 6, new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html, dropped

15:19:08 [matatk]

zakim, next item

15:19:08 [Zakim]

agendum 7 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]

15:19:24 [IrfanAli]

PaulG: no new updates.

15:20:05 [IrfanAli]

matatk: curious to know about some stuff that we discussed at TPAC.

15:20:23 [matatk]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2023#CSS

15:22:08 [IrfanAli]

matatk: CSS working group shared document with a proposal (as per the link). please read this doc and let us know your opinion. following on this work is very interesting.

15:22:47 [IrfanAli]

PaulG: it was discussed a while back. perhaps, they are following up on this.

15:23:47 [IrfanAli]

janina: we should look into it on broader perspective and not just from CSS perspective.

15:24:13 [IrfanAli]

matatk: we need track this. there are lot of issues with details and summary.

15:25:22 [IrfanAli]

various stakeholders are working on this and feedback is important in-order to standardize it.

15:26:10 [IrfanAli]

matatk: music xml is a use-case

15:26:45 [matatk]

s/matatk: music xml is a use-case/janina: music xml is a use-case/

15:26:54 [IrfanAli]

Lionel: I dont see any summary and details that you mentioned with the embedded details. we are talking about it at ADAPT

15:27:59 [IrfanAli]

matatk: dont think it is a technique that we would use in well known ADAPT spec.

15:30:03 [IrfanAli]

matatk: we have explainers for some specs which describes the design decisions methodologies. it is a good process to go through the explainer documents. we would be talking more about it in ADAPT calls.

15:30:58 [IrfanAli]

zakim, next item

15:30:58 [Zakim]

agendum 8 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]

15:31:37 [IrfanAli]

matatk: after CFC, I did post my comments on WHATWG thread.

15:32:01 [matatk]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0009.html

15:33:08 [IrfanAli]

matatk: per the comment, Nik mentioned that we would reach out to APG, ARIA. may be they update the pattern at ARIA to match.

15:34:56 [IrfanAli]

matatk: is there anyone who would like to helpmus with reaching out to APG team and ARIA team, and raising this issue with them.

15:35:06 [IrfanAli]

PaulG: may be we can simply file an issue

15:35:29 [IrfanAli]

matatk: need to learn how are they focus tracking.

15:35:35 [matatk]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/dialog-modal/

15:36:15 [matatk]

There's also alertdialog (and maybe etc.)

15:36:15 [IrfanAli]

PaulG: JS handlers which handles change. 450 lines of code could be simplified.

15:37:10 [PaulG]

https://a11ysupport.io/tech/html/inert_attribute

15:37:47 [matatk]

https://caniuse.com/?search=inert

15:39:27 [IrfanAli]

matatk: inert attr is a new way of flagging the content cannot be interact with. you can do dialog with inert attribute with more ease. it seems a good idea. even if APG team wants to keep existing approach than they could still allow focus to leave

15:41:15 [IrfanAli]

PaulG: inert version would be much better to manage the focus. general version of focus behavior was one version. but inert approach is much better for various use-cases

15:41:36 [Lionel]

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15:41:54 [matatk]

q+

15:42:26 [IrfanAli]

ack matatk

15:43:13 [IrfanAli]

matatk: I can three issues here. pattern needs to be changed, why dont we just use inert, what is the policy when we move to inert?

15:43:28 [IrfanAli]

is anyone up for looking into any of those three issues?

15:43:29 [Lionel]

q+

15:43:45 [IrfanAli]

janina: I will continue looking into CC level discussion because we have something to resolve there.

15:44:00 [IrfanAli]

matatk: it is important us to file an issue as a first preference.

15:44:29 [IrfanAli]

janina: one of the concept that APT want to Rokus. we will have this discussion

15:45:30 [IrfanAli]

PaulG: last update was 4 months ago. if we are talking about policy and decision, they have to update the explainer with more examples. may be they are within the timeframe and working on this.

15:45:36 [IrfanAli]

janina: we shall findout

15:46:10 [IrfanAli]

PaulG: I am happy to look at the implementation and can do little research about it.

15:47:07 [IrfanAli]

Lionel: want to check about my understanding about trap focus. is there any workaround.

15:47:51 [IrfanAli]

PaulG: there is a workaround but not always available. not a great experience. very large dialog could lead to cognitive problems

15:49:01 [matatk]

scribe+ matatk

15:49:08 [matatk]

IrfanAli: Escape key is a standard shortcut

15:49:18 [matatk]

PaulG: Escape isn't required for an alertdialog

15:50:01 [matatk]

IrfanAli: There seem to be a lot of gaps here still (e.g. a JavaScript alert).

15:50:15 [matatk]

PaulG: An alert() would allow someone to get back to the browser's UI

15:50:49 [matatk]

... People forget to delegate platform options that appear, e.g. if they implement a custom context menu, they may forget standard things like copy, paste, print, bookmarks, ...

15:51:04 [matatk]

... That's a huge issue for people who may be trying to determine that they're not being scammed.

15:51:35 [matatk]

... Very important to allow people the tools to help themselves out of such situtaions.

15:52:09 [matatk]

IrfanAli: Sometimes there's no way to escape from a dialog, e.g. a browser's save password feature.

15:52:43 [Lionel]

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15:52:57 [IrfanAli]

zakim, next item

15:52:57 [Zakim]

I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, IrfanAli

15:53:02 [Lionel]

+1 to looking at use cases that involve the Chrome and passwords

15:53:03 [matatk]

q?

15:53:05 [matatk]

ack Lionel

15:53:11 [IrfanAli]

zakim, next item

15:53:11 [Zakim]

agendum 9 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]

15:53:26 [matatk]

New specs brewing in Adapt: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-adapt/2023Nov/0012.html

15:54:36 [IrfanAli]

matatk: without giving much details, if you are interested in some interesting work, here it is. we discussed that during the TPAC at vancouver. we think we have got a good way to split the problem and tackle them.

15:54:53 [IrfanAli]

matatk: ADAP is the place where it is happening.

15:55:16 [IrfanAli]

zakim, next item

15:55:16 [Zakim]

agendum 10 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina]

15:55:23 [Lionel]

+1 to the excitement regarding what we are doing in Adapt

15:55:39 [matatk]

zakim, next item

15:55:39 [Zakim]

agendum 10 was just opened, matatk

15:55:45 [matatk]

zakim, close this item

15:55:45 [Zakim]

agendum 10 closed

15:55:46 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

15:55:46 [Zakim]

11. be done [from janina]

15:55:49 [matatk]

zakim, next item

15:55:49 [Zakim]

agendum 11 -- be done -- taken up [from janina]

15:56:12 [matatk]

s/ADAP is/Adapt is/

15:56:26 [IrfanAli]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:56:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-apa-minutes.html IrfanAli

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17:12:26 [matatk]

action @autosponge: Review APG dialog focus issues - due 6 Dec

17:12:27 [gb]

Created -> action #339 https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/339

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