IRC log of wcag-act on 2023-11-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:57:39 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-wcag-act-irc
13:57:45 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:57:46 [Zakim]
Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
13:58:30 [Wilco]
agenda+ ACT Standup
13:58:32 [Wilco]
agenda+ No meeting next week
13:58:34 [Wilco]
agenda+ Audio element content is media alternative for text
13:58:38 [Wilco]
agenda+ Iframe elements with identical accessible names have equivalent purpose
13:58:50 [Wilco]
agenda+ Finalising FPWD
13:59:16 [kathy]
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13:59:26 [kathy]
agenda?
13:59:32 [Helen]
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14:01:22 [catherine]
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14:01:28 [catherine]
present+
14:02:17 [Helen]
present+
14:02:35 [kathy]
present+
14:02:36 [Wilco]
present+
14:02:39 [kathy]
scribe: kathy
14:02:42 [trevor]
present+
14:02:46 [kathy]
zakim, take up next
14:02:47 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- ACT Standup -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:02:56 [catherine]
present+
14:03:03 [Wilco]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/discussions/3549
14:03:28 [Wilco]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/discussions/2078
14:03:38 [kathy]
wilco: submitted 6 new rules for approval, 3 to AG WG, 3 to ARIA WG
14:03:43 [thbrunet]
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14:03:57 [kathy]
... 1 response recieved
14:04:39 [kathy]
daniel: ACT Rules format first public working draft review
14:05:07 [kathy]
... FPWD doesn't need CFC to go ahead
14:05:37 [kathy]
trevor: not much to report
14:06:15 [kathy]
kathy: https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2101/files#
14:06:30 [Wilco]
Oh, good point, I also opened two PRs based on ARIA feedback: 2137 and 2139
14:06:38 [Wilco]
Would appreciate a review
14:06:59 [kathy]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/550
14:07:43 [dmontalvo]
present+ Daniel
14:07:51 [kathy]
catherine: reviewed rules from wilco
14:08:10 [kathy]
... will look at surveys due on 9th
14:08:42 [kathy]
tom: not much to report
14:09:21 [kathy]
helen: not much to report
14:09:39 [kathy]
zakim, take up next
14:09:39 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- No meeting next week -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:10:07 [kathy]
wilco: thanksgiving is next week, meet again in 2 weeks
14:10:13 [kathy]
zakim, take up next
14:10:13 [Zakim]
agendum 2 was just opened, kathy
14:10:23 [kathy]
zakim, close item 2
14:10:23 [Zakim]
agendum 2, No meeting next week, closed
14:10:23 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:10:23 [Zakim]
3. Audio element content is media alternative for text [from Wilco]
14:10:32 [kathy]
zakim, take up item 3
14:10:32 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Audio element content is media alternative for text -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:11:30 [kathy]
wilco: continue review of responses from last week
14:12:19 [kathy]
... is this rule necessary? is there a diff between a media alternative for text and a text alternative for time based media
14:12:39 [kathy]
... seem to be the same requirements
14:12:47 [Wilco]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/act/rules/afb423/proposed/
14:14:13 [dmontalvo]
Kathy: It didn't but I think that was an oversight
14:14:26 [dmontalvo]
... We're trying to add it in in the next version
14:14:47 [dmontalvo]
... The part "Is clearly labelled as such" is difficult
14:16:12 [dmontalvo]
Kathy: I don't think we saw that as a different. First we determine if it's a media equivalent and then we look at the clearly labelled part
14:17:48 [dmontalvo]
Kathy: This rule got a little twisted in my head that we are requiring anything and then it may not be clearly labled. But the label here may not be a requirement
14:18:30 [kathy]
wilco: if remove "except when... and clearly labeled as such" from SC 1.2.1, it says the same thing
14:18:57 [kathy]
tom: exception seems unnecessary
14:21:02 [kathy]
helen: doesn't need to be a separate rule
14:22:16 [kathy]
trevor: agree
14:22:53 [kathy]
wilco: think this rule is unnecessary
14:23:11 [kathy]
... auido element content has transcript should map directly to 1.2.1
14:23:30 [kathy]
trevor: main difference is the second expectation from this rule
14:24:02 [kathy]
wilco: the other 2 rules should be deprecated
14:24:52 [kathy]
tom: not exactly the same. looking for audio descriptions
14:28:08 [kathy]
... alternative for time-based media definition implies audio desc is required
14:29:41 [kathy]
... if video is alternative for text, background noise isn't needed
14:30:34 [kathy]
wilco: media alternative for text definition says no more information than is already presented in text
14:31:28 [kathy]
helen: audio that adds to the mood must be included in alternative
14:33:07 [kathy]
wilco: composite rule is only for audio
14:34:02 [Wilco]
PROPOSAL: Deprecate this rule, use Audio transcript rule to map to 1.2.1 directly instead
14:34:08 [thbrunet]
+1
14:34:11 [kathy]
+1
14:34:31 [trevor]
+1
14:34:37 [dmontalvo]
+1
14:34:39 [Helen]
+1
14:34:49 [Wilco]
+1
14:35:37 [kathy]
wilco: helen is liaison to this rule
14:36:20 [kathy]
zakim, take up next
14:36:20 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Iframe elements with identical accessible names have equivalent purpose -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:38:44 [kathy]
wilco: Pass ex 10 has no accname, Fail ex 4 need to be fixed
14:40:32 [kathy]
tom volunteers to be liaison
14:42:22 [thbrunet]
tom.brunet@gmail.com
14:44:16 [kathy]
wilco: jumping to conclusion - simpler rule could be "iframe has descriptive name"
14:45:04 [kathy]
... all automated tools are partially consistent
14:45:51 [kathy]
trevor: we have semi-automated and manual implementations, why is it down to automated
14:46:16 [kathy]
wilco: why not just ask for every iframe
14:46:34 [kathy]
trevor: then missing the case for 2 iframes with same name
14:46:58 [kathy]
daniel: same names to different sources could be a problem
14:47:25 [kathy]
wilco: this came up with advertisements
14:48:01 [kathy]
daniel: very subjective but could be more relevant if more than just ads
14:48:42 [kathy]
trevor: if two iframes were named "vote" but could be very different things to vote on
14:49:55 [kathy]
wilco: descriptive name could be considered when evaluating the iframe
14:50:58 [kathy]
tom: definition of equivalent resource is too vague in rule. "same" or "identical" would be clearer. rule allows two different resources to be equivalent
14:51:41 [kathy]
... if rule says same title if same resources, would be better
14:52:12 [kathy]
... but then alot of pass exs wouldn't be valid
14:52:50 [kathy]
... the advertising one is wrong, not descriptive if they are different ads. should be able to distinguish between the two
14:54:59 [kathy]
wilco: is this rule a meaningful addition to the ruleset?
14:55:00 [Helen]
0
14:55:10 [trevor]
+1
14:56:03 [kathy]
0
14:56:05 [Wilco]
PROPOSAL: Keep this rule and eventually add an iframe descriptive title rule
14:56:12 [thbrunet]
-1
14:58:25 [kathy]
daniel: pass ex 8, the advertising name, would not be descriptive
14:58:39 [kathy]
tom: agree not descriptive
14:58:47 [kathy]
wilco: think this is acceptable
14:59:05 [kathy]
... don't have enough control over content
14:59:20 [kathy]
tom: if you have different urls you could
14:59:40 [kathy]
... two different urls, two different ad sources
15:00:51 [Wilco]
s/tom.brunet@gmail.com//
15:01:04 [dmontalvo]
rrrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:27 [dmontalvo]
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15:02:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-wcag-act-minutes.html dmontalvo
15:05:03 [dmontalvo]
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15:05:05 [dmontalvo]
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15:05:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-wcag-act-minutes.html dmontalvo
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