20:00:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #immersive-web
20:00:20 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/14-immersive-web-irc
20:01:24 <lgombos> lgombos has joined #immersive-web
20:03:16 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #immersive-web
20:03:20 <cabanier> present+
20:04:39 <bajones> bajones has joined #Immersive-Web
20:08:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #immersive-web
20:08:37 <yonet> present +
20:08:41 <Leonard> Leonard has joined #immersive-web
20:08:41 <yonet> present+
20:08:43 <Leonard> presnet+
20:08:47 <Leonard> present+
20:08:54 <Leonard> scribe Leonard
20:08:56 <ada> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/pull/1349
20:09:00 <ada> present+
20:09:12 <lgombos> present+ Laszlo_Gombos
20:10:10 <Leonard> Ada: Link is to straw-man (person?) proposal to see what is necessary. Defined by UA to be a "good" place
20:10:14 <Leonard> ... for hand-interaction content.
20:10:28 <bajones> q+
20:11:10 <Leonard> ... intent is to put standard hand-interaction space in reasonable location of a person in various poses.
20:11:35 <Leonard> ... Should be dynamic to account for personal movement.
20:11:47 <ada> ack bajones
20:12:16 <Leonard> Brandon: Previously devices should be able to determine "comfort" space.
20:12:52 <Leonard> ... Need to determine expectations for how objects are to fit within space (on floor, on wall, on tilted-table)
20:13:51 <Leonard> ... Concerned about orgin and placement.
20:14:18 <cabanier> scribenick: cabanier
20:14:31 <cabanier> ada: yes, it will be defined as the tabletop position
20:14:36 <cabanier> ... I will update the PR
20:14:51 <cabanier> q+
20:15:20 <cabanier> blair: from what brandon said, figuring out the space...
20:15:34 <cabanier> ... figuring the volume of reach might be importan
20:15:48 <cabanier> ... if people have reduced mobility or are on an airplane
20:16:07 <cabanier> ... you can imagine with world mapping, it can infer some of that for you
20:16:24 <ada> ack cabanier
20:16:24 <cabanier> ... the app would get this world mapping without exposing the world
20:16:25 <bajones> +1!
20:17:01 <bajones> q+
20:17:07 <ada> ack bajones
20:17:16 <cabanier> cabanier: my only concern is that this is not supported on the OS level
20:17:43 <cabanier> bajones: +1 on the bounds idea. We already have a volume
20:18:06 <cabanier> ... as for the concern, we already have spaces that we just emulate so we can do the same here
20:18:15 <cabanier> ... I don't mind the phrasing of comfort space
20:18:33 <cabanier> ... but am concerned about the 'on top' phrase
20:18:42 <cabanier> ... a desk will be a popular item
20:19:00 <cabanier> ... maybe a more popular name would be to use it as a desk space
20:19:04 <cabanier> +1
20:19:19 <cabanier> ... but I could go either way on that
20:19:26 <cabanier> q+
20:19:44 <cabanier> ada: do we specify a height for bounded reference space?
20:19:49 <cabanier> bajones: we do not
20:19:58 <cabanier> ada: maybe it should be a bounding box.
20:20:11 <cabanier> ... it would imply that it would be a desktop
20:20:29 <cabanier> bajones: openxr defines a playspace as a bounding box
20:20:38 <ada> ack cabanier
20:21:34 <cabanier> cabanier: maybe putting it on top is a bit too limited
20:21:54 <cabanier> bajones: creating a surface, like a virtual table top
20:22:10 <cabanier> ... there doesn't have to be a actual surface
20:22:41 <cabanier> ... it would be if the name implied that "you can place things on top of this"
20:22:50 <cabanier> ada: maybe we can define it as a region
20:23:15 <cabanier> ... if you have something that would be floating, you would be placing it there
20:23:25 <cabanier> ... and it would still be in arms reach of the user
20:23:47 <ada> q?
20:24:15 <cabanier> ... would it be weird to define a bouding box?
20:24:50 <cabanier> bajones: it's going to be an axis aligned bounding box
20:25:24 <cabanier> blair: if it can be tilted, we'd need more than x/y/width/height
20:25:49 <cabanier> ada: I have enough to update the PR
20:26:22 <cabanier> ... I'll keep the name and add the bounding box
20:26:33 <cabanier> ... that should enough to help
20:26:44 <cabanier> ... mock it out and prototype it
20:27:11 <cabanier> ada: the next issue
20:27:13 <yonet> topic: https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/pull/1352
20:27:21 <cabanier> ... and this one is a bit less theoretical
20:27:35 <cabanier> ... I want to add a property if an input should be rendered
20:27:48 <cabanier> ... right now it's hard to determine if an input should be rendered
20:27:58 <cabanier> ... session type, input type, ...
20:28:09 <cabanier> ... this would make it a lot easier for developers
20:28:12 <cabanier> q+
20:28:21 <cabanier> ... should this value allowed to change
20:28:36 <cabanier> ... is there a scenario where it would switch mid session
20:28:42 <cabanier> ... is it a boolean?
20:29:06 <cabanier> ... I came up with some bikeshedded names
20:29:14 <cabanier> ... and am open to more names
20:29:37 <ada> ack cabanier
20:30:42 <cabanier> cabanier: this would be a very useful feature
20:30:57 <cabanier> ... for instance with depth sensing, you would never want to render controllers
20:31:14 <cabanier> bajones: I don't think this would change dynamically
20:31:30 <cabanier> ... we have a pattern from disconnecting and reconnecting input
20:31:34 <cabanier> ... we can use the same here
20:31:48 <cabanier> ... I'm partial to a boolean
20:32:11 <cabanier> ... we might want to indicate if you want to occlude
20:32:40 <cabanier> ... in a lot of simple passthrough system, you render over the hands
20:33:02 <cabanier> ... I'm not really sure what I expect developers to change
20:33:14 <cabanier> ... if the system doesn't do it, there's some visual disparity
20:33:36 <cabanier> ... if the system does the right thing, it's more of a quality of life thing
20:34:13 <cabanier> ... does anyone have strong feelings about the naming?
20:34:24 <cabanier> ada: does anyone have strong feelings about the naming?
20:34:46 <cabanier> ... it should be that if it's not defined, it means always render the controllers
20:34:59 <cabanier> ... so false is the default
20:35:51 <cabanier> ... having a negative attribute seems wrong
20:36:07 <cabanier> bajones: I agree but otherwise every step is a two step
20:36:26 <cabanier> ... first check for the property and then check for false
20:36:41 <cabanier> ... so true is that you can opt out of the drawing
20:37:04 <cabanier> ada: if nobody has objections, maybe my PR can be merged
20:37:11 <cabanier> ... this can be useful
20:38:02 <cabanier> ... I think this is a cool feature
23:59:59 <scribe> s/presnet+/present+/
23:59:59 <scribe> s/scribe Leonard/scribe: Leonard/
23:59:59 <scribe> s/topic: https:/https:/
23:59:59 <scribe> i|https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/pull/1349|topic: Initial attempt at a comfortSpace (webxr#1349)|
23:59:59 <scribe> i|https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/pull/1352|topic: First draft for adding a property to XRInputSource to say it's visible elsewhere (webxr#1352)|
23:59:59 <scribe> meeting: Immersive-Web WG/CG call
23:59:59 <scribe> chair: Ada
23:59:59 <scribe> agenda: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/meetings/2023/14-11-2023-Immersive_Web_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
23:59:59 <scribe> previous meeting: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/meetings/wg/2023-10-31-Immersive_Web_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
23:59:59 <scribe> scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics