16:26:52 RRSAgent has joined #waicc 16:26:56 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-waicc-irc 16:27:27 RRSAgent, make logs Public 16:27:28 Meeting: WAI Coordination Call Teleconference 16:27:28 zakim, clear agenda 16:27:28 agenda cleared 16:27:28 chair: Shawn 16:27:28 present: Shawn 16:28:36 agenda+ Group updates 16:28:36 agenda+ Infoshare 16:28:36 agenda+ Managing issues and public comments 16:29:00 George has joined #waicc 16:29:20 present+ 16:30:13 Am I on the wrong zoom channel again? 16:30:17 matatk has joined #waicc 16:31:37 maryjom has joined #waicc 16:31:44 present+ 16:32:36 janina has joined #waicc 16:32:43 present+ 16:33:30 present+ 16:33:30 present+ James 16:33:32 scribe+ 16:33:41 agenda? 16:33:44 Lionel_Wolberger_ has joined #waicc 16:33:45 present+ 16:33:49 zakim, who is here? 16:33:49 Present: Shawn, George, maryjom, janina, matatk, James, Lionel_Wolberger_ 16:33:50 zakim, next item 16:33:51 On IRC I see Lionel_Wolberger_, janina, maryjom, matatk, George, RRSAgent, Zakim, shawn, jamesn, ChrisLoiselle, Rachael, agendabot, kevin, dmontalvo 16:33:51 agendum 1 -- Group updates -- taken up [from shawn] 16:34:24 I am logged in and when following a link to the agenda got: The server returned a "403 - Forbidden" error. 16:35:14 S/ I am logged in and when following a link to the agenda got: The server returned a "403 - Forbidden" error./ 16:35:41 Jem has joined #waicc 16:36:39 Lionel_Wolberger_: Working on symbols module, and the well-known URLs for accessibility. 16:37:01 janina: Happy to have matatk back. 16:37:10 matatk: Very happy to be back! 16:37:49 janina: I've been asked by a11yNYC to present on APA's work in W3C WAI. Working on slides. Will present all our work and leave time for questions. Wonderful recruiting opportunity. 16:37:50 present+ 16:38:06 ... Would appreciate help socializing it. 16:38:08 present+ 16:38:15 shawn: Is the focus on APA or broader? 16:38:17 janina: APA 16:38:30 present+ Daniel 16:38:51 shawn: Skimming minutes, I saw a comment that APA would not want Maturity Model to move out into a broader group? 16:39:22 janina: Think there's some misunderstanding about that, maybe best to check in directly first, and then maybe take up on this call. 16:39:48 janina: Now I have a co-chair back, want to catch up between us first. 16:39:59 shawn: ACK; please add to follow-up list, kevin 16:40:28 janina: This has bounced around in Maturity Model and Sherri has been in Equity conversations; need to follow up on those. Is Equity working as part of AG? 16:40:37 shawn: It moved out, broader. 16:41:00 maryjom: WCAG2ICT: still finishing up addressing public comments from FPWD. 16:41:23 ... Trying to follow up with folks assigned to draft responses. 16:41:51 ... We're also working to get WCAG 2.2 changes incorprorated into the next draft, too. Expecting that to come out in March. 16:42:15 ... Next draft for AG review soon (expecting within a week). Trying to get the first in before the holidays. 16:42:29 s/before the holidays/before the end of year holidays/g 16:42:51 Jem: co-chairing ARIA APG group with Matt King. Expecting another publication before the end of the year. 16:43:06 Publish? Updated WD? Final Note Version? Which? 16:43:22 dmontalvo: Placeholder publication for tomorrow likely delayed. 16:43:51 https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/ 16:44:37 janina: There was some concern in APA about how mature the patterns are. 16:45:02 Jem: Would like to hear feedback from the group about what improvements we can make. 16:45:32 janina: Matt King asked for us to meet up on this at TPAC; I said we'd have to follow up in due course as we have a lot changing at the moment. 16:45:41 jamesn: Please can I be invited? 16:45:49 dmontalvo: Please can I be invited? 16:46:08 [ Shawn also interested in participating that meeting. ] 16:46:26 janina: This came as a result of looking at proposed charters, including EOs, and a discussion on making sure we point to mature content. 16:46:47 Jem: We already have a note that states if a pattern is in the development/testing stage. 16:46:50 janina: That hepls. 16:47:27 jamesn: There will always be some things in APG that are not mature, because some of the patterns are used by browser vendors to work out the provision of support for those patterns. 16:47:34 janina: I'll carry that back. 16:48:06 shawn: This seems like a communications issue. On the one hand, some people think they're patterns that can be used, but on the other, some are examples of things that could be used in future. 16:48:39 jamesn: This is the purpose of ARIA-AT - to put into the APG the real test results of support, but that's not complete yet. We have started this, and it needs more effort. 16:49:04 ... It takes a long time to work with each of the ATs and figure out what and how they think they should be/are supporting things. 16:49:16 https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/button/examples/button/ 16:49:21 Jem: One example covers how different ATs support the button pattern. 16:49:40 Jem: This shows the data. 16:50:22 ... One level is how we explain to users the state of a particular pattern, and another is communicating the test results. 16:50:46 shawn: [cites the note about code not being intended for production environments that is prsent in the APG] 16:51:24 Can we get a pointer to that Gh comment? 16:51:39 janina: Our hope is to give pointers to wider WAI work, but we got tripped up on exactly what we should link to. 16:52:05 I think "reliable" is the moving target considering the change of technology everyday. 16:52:31 shawn: Where is the comment? APA repo? Do we need a WAICC repo [as suggested just by kevin also]? 16:52:45 kevin: Yes, I think this is demonstrating the need for this. 16:53:03 shawn: We're tracking two things. The second thing is APG communication. 16:53:11 Jem: is the scope just APG, or ARIA spec too? 16:53:13 janina: APG 16:53:24 WAI-CC track 2. APG communication of status, 1. @@ 16:54:05 janina: Really good feedback from you all about these comments. We are just concerned about ensuring communication is clear. 16:54:21 George: We're working on the user experience guide for accessibility metadata in the Publishing CG. 16:54:42 present+ 16:54:59 KrisAnne: Working on EO charter. Had uptick of people asking to participate who're not W3C members. 16:55:10 ... Been kicking around the idea of running a CG. 16:56:01 shawn: EO decided to get another extension. We are working on resources for EOWG. 16:56:13 shawn: One idea floated was to not recharter EO due to lack of participation. 16:56:51 ... The chairs and some people in the group wanted to continue, so we're doing another 6 months. This is opportunity for W3C members to contribute to EOWG work, and demonstrate the support for getting the work done. 16:57:07 ... This is kind of a big deal. 16:57:12 rrsagent, make minutes 16:57:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-waicc-minutes.html matatk 16:57:36 shawn: If you and your organization want EO to continue, support the work. 16:57:52 jamesn: What's the downside of making it a CG? There aren't any IPR issues? 16:58:34 KrisAnne: In the past it's been expressed that the amount of work that EOWG does is worthy of being a WG. But when you're not a WG, companies may not give people the time to do the needed work. Creating and publishing resources involves a significant amount of effort. 16:58:51 ... We want to ensure that people are given the time to do it. 16:59:19 ... Some people who have been given the time, but have too much other work to do it. 16:59:40 ... There is fallout from organizations shrinking. 17:00:36 ... On paper, we're a large WG. We asked how we can get people more involved, and we often get the answer that people are as involved as they can get. If you have someone in your organization who is interested in training, education, outreach, we could use help. 17:01:15 ... That was a reason we thought about the CG, as we're not bound by membership. Plus may give more weight to the resources we publish - if they come from a WG. 17:01:20 I think EO generates publications we want the WAI imprimatur which wouldn't be available from a CG 17:01:21 rrsagent, make minutes 17:01:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-waicc-minutes.html matatk 17:02:13 shawn: Participation - I agree that CG has wider participation. Having things published by WG I think gives them more credibility. We're still discussing and appreciate your perspectives. 17:02:52 Lionel: There was a successful pattern in Verifiable Credentials with CG(s) and then particular work being "promoted" to the WG. 17:03:15 shawn: That's the same thing we're doing with ACT Rules, and experiments are planned. 17:03:19 rrsagent, make minutes 17:03:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-waicc-minutes.html matatk 17:04:21 shawn: [highlights maryjom's example of handling comments; more later] 17:04:28 rrsagent, make minutes 17:04:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-waicc-minutes.html matatk 17:06:15 matatk has left #waicc 17:06:48 s/WAI-CC track 2. APG communication of status, 1. @@/ WAI-CC to track 1. Maturity Model going broader than APA? 2. For APG, better communicate APG purpose, status of patterns, etc. 17:07:46 s/I am logged in and when following a link to the agenda got: The server returned a "403 - Forbidden" error.// 17:08:01 s| S/ I am logged in and when following a link to the agenda got: The server returned a "403 - Forbidden" error./|| 17:11:35 s/Participation - I agree that CG has wider participation. Having things published by WG I think gives them more credibility./EOWG participants said that things published by a WG has more credibility than a CG 17:12:13 agenda? 17:12:26 zakim, take up agenda 3 17:12:26 agendum 3 -- Managing issues and public comments -- taken up [from shawn] 17:14:19 Shawn: Thanks to good discussion. Will defer this agenda item what Mary Jo shared via email. Especailly for new-to-W3C participants https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/wiki/Process-for-addressing-public-comments 17:14:43 s/item what Mary Jo/item. see what Mary Jo 17:14:53 s/shawn: [highlights maryjom's example of handling comments; more later]// 17:14:58 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:15:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-waicc-minutes.html shawn 17:17:09 s/ Am I on the wrong zoom channel again?// 17:17:21 s/ Am I on the wrong zoom channel again?// 17:27:32 s/I am logged in and when following a link to the agenda got: The server returned a "403 - Forbidden" error.// 17:27:52 s|S/ /| 17:30:25 s/EO decided to get another extension. We are working on resources for EOWG./Decided to get another EOWG charter extension, for more time to see what resources [participant & Chair] for EOWG. 17:33:41 s/… We want to ensure that people are given the time to do it./... We want to ensure that people are given the time to do it. James: Sounds like participants not currently having time for WG. 17:33:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:33:49 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-waicc-minutes.html shawn 17:52:38 janina has left #waicc