IRC log of adapt on 2023-11-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:25:05 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #adapt
14:25:09 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-irc
14:25:17 [Sharon]
zakim, start meeting
14:25:17 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:25:19 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Sharon
14:25:45 [Sharon]
meeting: APA WAI-Adapt Task Force Meeting 13 November 2023
14:26:05 [Sharon]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:26:22 [Sharon]
Chair: Sharon
14:26:25 [Sharon]
agenda?
14:26:49 [Sharon]
agenda+ Welcome, general updates
14:29:48 [Sharon]
agenda+ Issue 240 discussion (Unicode / Registry) 
14:29:58 [Sharon]
agenda+ Symbol Module Implementations: One-pager in HTML issue #247 https://w3c.github.io/adapt/Adapt-One-Pager/Overview.html
14:29:59 [gb]
https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/247 -> Action 247 Symbols Explainer Made Available as HTML Pages on GitHub (on ruoxiran) due 2023-10-30
14:30:09 [Sharon]
agenda+ well-known URI for accessibility proposal/discuss. include in Gap analysis (Lionel) https://github.com/w3c/adapt/wiki/Gap-Analysis
14:30:23 [Sharon]
agenda+ A11y4Children follow-ups
14:30:33 [Sharon]
agenda+ Recruiting
14:30:43 [Sharon]
agenda+ User Agents and Symbols Implementations 
14:30:55 [Sharon]
agenda?
14:56:01 [Roy_]
Roy_ has joined #adapt
15:02:17 [matatk]
matatk has joined #adapt
15:02:27 [matatk]
present+
15:02:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger has joined #adapt
15:02:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]
scribe+
15:02:50 [Roy_]
present+
15:02:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]
present+
15:02:53 [janina]
janina has joined #adapt
15:02:55 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
15:02:55 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Welcome, general updates -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:02:58 [janina]
present+
15:03:01 [janina]
scribe+
15:03:06 [matatk]
q+
15:03:21 [russell]
russell has joined #adapt
15:03:27 [russell]
present+
15:03:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Topic: New Meeting Time
15:04:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: Sounds like the core group is fine with Tuesdays at this same time
15:04:15 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Sharon: Next week is Thanksgiving in the USA
15:04:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... and in December the 2nd half starting the 11th I have vacation
15:08:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]
RESOLVED: Task Force weekly teleconference will move to Tuesday 10AM Boston as of next week Nov 21sat
15:08:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Topic: Thanksgiving week meeting yes or no?
15:08:34 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Sharon: No objection
15:08:58 [Lionel_Wolberger]
RESOLVED: Adapt TF shall meet next week on 21-November
15:09:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:09:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:11:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Roy_: I will show the chairs and facilitators how to use the calendar
15:11:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
15:11:13 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Lionel_Wolberger
15:11:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]
q?
15:11:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]
ack matatk
15:12:00 [janina]
janina has changed the topic to: Weekly WAI-Adapt Teleconference
15:12:30 [Lionel_Wolberger]
matatk: (Matt notes the IRC topic was incorrect. Janina told us how to run /topic)
15:12:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, next item
15:12:39 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Issue 240 discussion (Unicode / Registry)  -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:13:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]
russell: At the link https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/240
15:13:32 [gb]
https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/240 -> Issue 240 Could we build symbolic annotations with existing Web standards? (by DuncanMacWeb) [i18n-tracker]
15:14:19 [janina]
q+
15:15:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]
q+
15:15:11 [Sharon]
q?
15:17:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]
russell: CookieCrook spoke of using polyfills
15:17:26 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... emojis can now be defined by stringing together different emojis
15:17:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... for example, a wmoan man and child make a family
15:18:06 [Sharon]
ack janina
15:18:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: Has authoring come up at all in this discussion?
15:19:55 [Lionel_Wolberger]
russell: There are hundreds of symbol sets now.
15:20:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... they have some overlap, as well as non-overlap
15:20:30 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... so given set A and set B, there will be symbols in both sets, as well as some symbols in "B" that are not in "A"
15:20:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... is that what you mean by authoring?
15:21:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: If we go to unicode what do we give website content creators to add as the code to embed (or markup) their content to deliver on the promise of personalizable symbols
15:21:32 [matatk]
q+
15:21:58 [Sharon]
q?
15:22:04 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... to be overly specific say whitehouse.gov wishes to add symbols
15:22:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... would they add unicode? We would still need the registry.
15:22:39 [Sharon]
ack matatk
15:23:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]
matatk: Regarding authoring, I see the concern. It's about looking up the right concept and seeking the right ID
15:23:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... whether that ID is a BlissID or a Unicode value, we get a non-ambiguous ID
15:23:41 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: That's my point -- we would still need authoring support
15:23:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]
matatk: Unicode does give a full textual basis for the character
15:24:13 [matatk]
ack me
15:26:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]
russell: the issue is not the mapping of a single code point to a single concept
15:27:56 [Lionel_Wolberger]
matatk: THe issue is that there is no clear delimiter. A string of code-points will not be clear
15:28:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... let's say you have code points A, B, C, D, E; you dont know if it is ABC and DE, or A and BCD and E
15:28:30 [Lionel_Wolberger]
russell: No, they have a solution to delimeters
15:29:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... the issue is that there is no symbol in Bliss Symbolics to match any arbitrary contstructed group of symbols A, X, Z
15:30:07 [matatk]
q+
15:30:19 [Sharon]
q?
15:32:14 [matatk]
scribe+
15:32:17 [janina]
Lionel_Wolberger: Personally struggling how to do a visual representation, and how to describe that nonvisually
15:32:31 [matatk]
Lionel_Wolberger: We have several needs; unique and reliable identifiers.
15:32:34 [janina]
Lionel_Wolberger: Don't recall Adapt wrestling aggregated symbol entities
15:33:08 [matatk]
Lionel_Wolberger: The idea of aggregated symbols is new.
15:33:16 [janina]
Lionel_Wolberger: Unicode is maintainted by whatever bodey, so our Registry would be more responvie; approved sooner and more able to provide new entity values more promptly
15:33:54 [janina]
Lionel_Wolberger: Bliss symbols are community responsive, so unicode doesn't add value, it just another organization holding dissemination back
15:34:49 [janina]
matatk: looking forward to the graphic Lionel and Russell develop to illustrate this
15:35:06 [janina]
matatk: We are trusting Bliss to represent community fairly
15:35:37 [janina]
matatk: Not sure how promptly other symbol sets catch up, or how BCI vs Unicode is a factor there
15:35:59 [russell]
q+
15:36:07 [matatk]
ack me
15:36:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
ack Lionel_Wolberger
15:36:22 [matatk]
q?
15:36:35 [matatk]
ack russell
15:36:37 [Sharon]
ack russell
15:36:49 [Sharon]
q?
15:37:09 [janina]
russell: Unsure what experience with these communities among us on the call?
15:37:38 [janina]
russell: Many other sets are full package solutions
15:38:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... ARASAAC is constantly adding symbols, depending on what the immediate need is
15:38:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... COVID drove the addition of symbols
15:39:12 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... Bliss also get requests from device manufacturers
15:39:36 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... growth is organic and every symbol set grows at its own pace
15:40:45 [janina]
Lionel_Wolberger: Want to bring us back to support for content creators/publishers; Without that how to do that?
15:41:01 [janina]
q+
15:41:35 [russell]
q+
15:41:53 [janina]
Lionel_Wolberger: Recalls recently iphone showing up with all kinds of unicorns? How does that illustrate
15:42:04 [janina]
russell: Possible, but not realistic
15:42:28 [matatk]
q+
15:42:30 [Sharon]
ack janina
15:43:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Lionel_Wolberger: We can take as an axiom, that Bliss Symbolics will likely never be capable of addressing all possible symbols, as even if it did encompass all symbols at a given moment,
15:43:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... the next moment a new symbol may spring into existence that is not in BCI
15:44:25 [Lionel_Wolberger]
janina: With that in mind, all we need to do is give the reasoning as to why this is a good starting place
15:44:34 [Sharon]
ack russell
15:44:35 [Lionel_Wolberger]
... and a sufficient mechanism to add to that registry
15:45:36 [janina]
q+
15:46:19 [Sharon]
ack matatk
15:48:51 [matatk]
ack me
15:49:27 [janina]
agenda?
15:49:28 [gb]
https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/247 -> Action 247 Symbols Explainer Made Available as HTML Pages on GitHub (on ruoxiran) due 2023-10-30
15:50:04 [janina]
zakim, take up item 4
15:50:04 [Zakim]
agendum 4 --  well-known URI for accessibility proposal/discuss. include in Gap analysis (Lionel) https://github.com/w3c/adapt/wiki/Gap-Analysis -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:51:01 [janina]
matatk: Have started from user perspective by writing an Explainer first
15:51:18 [janina]
matatk: See three distinct needs; yielding three short specs
15:51:38 [janina]
matatk: Main would be use of combo of well-known-uri plus relations to be used in a rhel
15:52:05 [janina]
matatk: e.g. help for site, or help for in page page help
15:52:35 [janina]
matatk: a11y statement is one obvious, but COGA has research for multiple destinations
15:52:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, who is here
15:52:52 [Zakim]
Lionel_Wolberger, you need to end that query with '?'
15:52:54 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, who is here?
15:52:54 [Zakim]
Present: matatk, Roy_, Lionel_Wolberger, janina, russell
15:52:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see russell, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, matatk, Roy_, RRSAgent, Zakim, Sharon, Mike5Matrix, sdd, Github, imlostlmao, justinestrada, gonzu_15, gb, trackbot
15:53:20 [janina]
matatk: Second is taking a SAP proposal -- when at the A11y statement, what actually is in it?
15:53:40 [janina]
matatk: Potential for specifying what's included in machine readable way, at least a note of what should be there
15:54:02 [janina]
matatk: WKU isn't about content of what's in an a11y statement
15:54:50 [janina]
matatk: Third is what we discussed with Reporting API PEOPLE -- what do we mean by "reporting" for a11y
15:55:17 [janina]
matatk: either auto or semi-auto reporting tool that produces report from the DOM
15:55:54 [janina]
matatk: Reporting also of "I'm a user having problem X" which may go to a different endpoint
15:56:03 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:56:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html janina
15:56:33 [janina]
matatk: Expect to get these drafts out this week!
15:57:10 [janina]
present= avilar
15:57:10 [Lionel_Wolberger]
Abhinav: Are you proposing three different end points?
15:57:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]
zakim, who is here?
15:57:24 [Zakim]
Present: avilar
15:57:26 [Zakim]
On IRC I see russell, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, matatk, Roy_, RRSAgent, Zakim, Sharon, Mike5Matrix, sdd, Github, imlostlmao, justinestrada, gonzu_15, gb, trackbot
15:57:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:57:48 [janina]
avilar: thinking in terms of endpoints; we need reporting results which has at least two end points
15:58:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]
present+ Abhinav
15:58:08 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:58:46 [janina]
matatk: what goes into a11y statement that might be machine readable is not natively WKU; but we want to figure that out
15:58:46 [janina]
matatk: Then there's what WKU is intended which we also need. All three are related.
15:58:55 [janina]
Lionel_Wolberger: Yes, we need to timebox 240 plus WKU!
15:59:08 [matatk]
present+
15:59:17 [Sharon]
present+
15:59:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]
present= Abhinav, Sharon, Janina, Lionel Wolberger, Roy, Russel
15:59:58 [Lionel_Wolberger]
present+ matatk
16:04:36 [Roy_]
https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/personalization-tf/calendar/
16:05:06 [Roy_]
https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html#calendars
16:17:55 [Roy_]
https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/personalization-tf/calendar/
16:21:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]
agenda?
16:21:34 [gb]
https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/247 -> Action 247 Symbols Explainer Made Available as HTML Pages on GitHub (on ruoxiran) due 2023-10-30
16:31:45 [janina]
zakim, end meeting
16:31:45 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Abhinav, Sharon, Janina, Lionel, Wolberger, Roy, Russel, matatk
16:31:47 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:31:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html Zakim
16:31:55 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, janina; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
16:31:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #adapt
16:32:32 [janina]
rrsagent, bye
16:32:32 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items