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16:46:52 <AutomatedTester> Meeting: Browser Testing and Tools WG  - November 2023
16:47:03 <AutomatedTester> Chair: David Burns
16:47:54 <AutomatedTester> scribe: David Burns
16:48:02 <AutomatedTester> ScribeNick: AutomatedTester
16:48:22 <AutomatedTester_> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:48:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/08-webdriver-minutes.html AutomatedTester_
16:48:50 <AutomatedTester> present+
16:50:17 <AutomatedTester_> agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2023-11-BiDi
17:01:01 <JimEvans> present+
17:01:17 <MaksimSadym> present+
17:01:28 <orkon> present+
17:01:29 <whimboo> present+
17:01:30 <jgraham> present+
17:04:12 <AutomatedTester> Topic: Clarify correct behavior for uploading a folder via "Element Send Keys"
17:04:22 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/issues/1742
17:04:24 <shs96c> present+
17:05:27 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: I have noticed this for a issue against for Firefox recently. Firefox doesnt do anything but ChromeDriver uploads all the files in the directory
17:05:51 <AutomatedTester> ... so what should we be doing as we could break backwards compat here
17:05:57 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:07:27 <AutomatedTester> automatedtester: I kinda think that we should follow what chromedriver is doing here for everyone
17:07:28 <thiagowfx> present+
17:07:54 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: This will potentially upload files that people are not expecting here... so we might want to clarify things for users
17:08:12 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:08:49 <jgraham_> q?
17:09:04 <Lola> present+
17:09:25 <MaksimSadym> q+
17:09:40 <sadym> q+
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17:11:30 <shs96c> https://irc.w3.org
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17:14:04 <Randolf__> q+
17:14:14 <sadym> q-
17:14:15 <AutomatedTester_> ack MaksimSadym
17:14:16 <thiagowfx_web> present+
17:14:21 <Randolf__> q-
17:14:23 <MaksimSadym> q-
17:14:26 <orkon___> q+
17:14:43 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:15:11 <Randolf__> q+
17:15:21 <AutomatedTester_> orkon___: I think we should probably move chromedriver towards to firefox. We should raise a bug and see what happens on the file.
17:15:50 <AutomatedTester_> ... and with regard to bidi, the validation is left to the client
17:16:08 <AutomatedTester_> q?
17:16:10 <Randolf__> q-
17:16:44 <Randolf__> q+
17:17:08 <AutomatedTester_> ACTION: Chromedriver folks to see what happens on a web page when and possible move ChromeDriver to Firefox implementation
17:17:15 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:18:03 <Randolf__> q-
17:18:20 <AutomatedTester_> Randolf__: this feels like it is OS territory here. I think we should just do something simple and move CHromedriver to just do files and not folders
17:18:39 <AutomatedTester_> Topic: Serialize WindowProxy with full browsingContext.info and not just context
17:18:48 <AutomatedTester_> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/580
17:19:25 <AutomatedTester_> whimboo_: This is a follow up to get feedback on the serialising the WindowProxy
17:19:55 <AutomatedTester_> ... and to share back with clients what the type of the window
17:20:28 <sadym> q+
17:20:35 <AutomatedTester_> ... adding this info on the response we can minimize all the round trips back to the client and simplify the interop hopefully
17:20:38 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:20:54 <AutomatedTester_> ... in puppeteer they cache the window objects
17:21:08 <AutomatedTester_> ... but we don't expect that in selenium
17:21:44 <AutomatedTester_> MaksimSadym: I wonder if its good enough to send back just the frame or top level
17:21:58 <AutomatedTester_> ... or if we need to pass back a lot more info e.g. parent/children
17:22:06 <whimboo_> q+
17:22:10 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:22:40 <jgraham_> q+
17:23:30 <sadym> q+
17:23:43 <AutomatedTester_> whimboo_: if we don't want to have the full browsing context info we could add a flag e.g. if it's a top level it returns without the flag and with the frame it has it
17:23:46 <AutomatedTester_> q?
17:23:48 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:25:13 <AutomatedTester_> jgraham_: we can serialise the children. it is a reasonable concern if we are sharing too much info but we can return it with extra info url and ids
17:25:32 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:25:44 <jgraham_> s/can serialise/can skip serialising/
17:26:09 <jgraham_> s/extra info/only/
17:26:18 <jgraham_> s/and ids/and parent/
17:28:54 <sadym> We aren't opposed to the suggestion, but I wonder if the justification "X is needed in case of cross-operations between BiDi and Classic to reduce round trips" to extend data / add new commands etc it enough
17:29:02 <AutomatedTester_> Topic: input.setFiles
17:29:12 <AutomatedTester_> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/494
17:29:18 <orkon___> q+
17:29:29 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
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17:30:11 <AutomatedTester_> orkon___: We have supplied 2 PRs. One is for the setting the files on an input element and one for picking files
17:30:17 <jgraham_> q+
17:30:27 <AutomatedTester_> ... one question do we need to show the dialog?
17:30:49 <AutomatedTester_> ... in puppeteer we intercept and then set it without showing it
17:30:55 <AutomatedTester_> ... any thoughts
17:30:57 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:31:25 <AutomatedTester_> jgraham_: there are clear use cases for both for getting the event when the dialog is shown
17:31:53 <AutomatedTester_> ... we have done things in the pass where we have semi automated tests
17:32:10 <AutomatedTester_> ... where people might have a human in the loop
17:32:39 <AutomatedTester_> ... there could be a use case where we are collecting events but the human does the interactions
17:33:18 <AutomatedTester_> ... there might be times where you want to automate that if you clicked a button that the dialog is loaded and you assert on that event
17:33:34 <orkon___> q+
17:33:38 <AutomatedTester_> ... I think we should support both use cases
17:33:51 <AutomatedTester_> ... I don't think subscribing to the even should supress the dialog
17:34:15 <Randolf__> q+
17:34:27 <AutomatedTester_> ... the way this works in classic for alerts is via capabilities and we could use that process
17:35:40 <AutomatedTester_> ... and we could supress the dialog in a global way. It might make sense to ahve a config for this that surpresses things and in the event we add that it would have come up but was surpressed
17:35:44 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:36:44 <AutomatedTester_> orkon___: if we surpess this via a capability... what happens if a user doesn't subscribe or they dont suppress it would it be open all the time?
17:36:50 <AutomatedTester_> jgraham_: yes, like alerts
17:37:04 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:37:29 <AutomatedTester_> Randolf__: I think that if we do it via capabilities it should be fine
17:37:40 <AutomatedTester_> ... outside of that we can discuss it on the PR
17:38:09 <AutomatedTester_> ... is there anything else missing. jgraham_ did have a comment about cancellation. I have followed up on the PR
17:38:21 <AutomatedTester_> jgraham_: I will review again
17:38:27 <AutomatedTester_> q?
17:38:43 <AutomatedTester_> Topic: Permission extensions
17:38:57 <AutomatedTester_> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/587
17:39:23 <AutomatedTester_> orkon___: thiagowfx_web started looking into implementing permissions
17:39:53 <AutomatedTester_> ... there is a PR in draft that people can start reviewing about how extension methods should be written
17:40:27 <jgraham_> q+
17:40:29 <AutomatedTester_> ... do we want to refine the way we have extensions written or ...?
17:40:33 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:41:07 <AutomatedTester_> jgraham_: I haven't looked yet but adding whole modules seems a very clear way for people to add things
17:41:38 <AutomatedTester_> ... it also has good way to prevent people trampling over
17:41:42 <orkon___> q+
17:41:55 <AutomatedTester_> ... I think vendor extensions and spec extensions are very different use cases
17:42:51 <AutomatedTester_> ... we should encourage external specs to define whole modules for their use
17:42:55 <jgraham_> q+ gsnedders
17:42:56 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:44:44 <AutomatedTester_> orkon___: <describes something about colon>. As for classic permissions only has 1 command so that seems a little much for a whole module
17:44:55 <AutomatedTester_> ... but I think it could work
17:44:59 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:45:33 <jgraham_> q+
17:46:14 <AutomatedTester_> gsnedders: To use the permission spec as a idea... we should consider that a spec could extend webdriver and also want to add new capabilities and we should handle that
17:46:18 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:46:39 <AutomatedTester_> jgraham_: capabilities is a special case
17:46:59 <orkon___> q+
17:47:05 <AutomatedTester_> ... if the use case is extending capabilities I think that is already covered
17:47:07 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:47:56 <AutomatedTester_> orkon: we have already started looking into this to get the classic across to bidi. if you think we can improve this please comment on the PR
17:48:11 <AutomatedTester_> q?
17:48:21 <AutomatedTester_> Topic: Cookies
17:48:21 <jgraham_> (don't want to extend this topic further, but I always assumed BiDi would move to an event-based model for permissions i.e. you'd get a permissions.Request event with some information)
17:48:24 <AutomatedTester_> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/287
17:49:10 <AutomatedTester_> orkon___: I was wondering if there are any open issues/blockers for the cookies proposal?
17:49:15 <AutomatedTester_> q?
17:49:29 <orkon___> https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/501
17:49:50 <lola_> q+
17:49:53 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:50:38 <AutomatedTester_> lola_: Mike isn't here today but he will be working on them this week. We should hopefully have those comments handled and ready for review later this week
17:51:07 <AutomatedTester_> Topic: "session.reset" / "session.unsubscribeAll"
17:51:15 <AutomatedTester_> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/145
17:51:24 <jgraham_> q+
17:51:46 <AutomatedTester_> sadym: it would be good to use something like session.reset to clean up the state for tests
17:52:13 <AutomatedTester_> ... we are already cleaning up tests for WPT <missed rest>
17:52:16 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:52:33 <AutomatedTester_> jgraham_: I think in principle this seems ok
17:52:56 <orkon___> q+
17:53:26 <AutomatedTester_> ... we disucssed internally and we discussed that it would be good to have a mechanism to get a token for certain events and then you only unsubscribe for that set of events
17:54:00 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:54:54 <AutomatedTester_> orkon___: I wonder if there is some overlap with the removing the session PR that jgraham_  was working on where restarting a session on the same connect
17:55:07 <jgraham_> q+
17:55:25 <AutomatedTester_> ack next
17:56:20 <sadym> The scenario is to prepare the state for the next test, and re-creating the session with the same websocket connection would work as well, but not sure if there can be some other side effects
17:57:07 <AutomatedTester_> jgraham_: the original PR was a lightweight reset of the session
17:57:29 <AutomatedTester_> ... it clear the object cache but leave the capabilities
17:58:39 <AutomatedTester_> ... <discusses tokens>
17:58:53 <AutomatedTester_> ... we should definitely write this up
18:00:06 <jgraham_> RRSAgent: make minutes
18:00:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/08-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham_
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