13:55:35 RRSAgent has joined #me 13:55:39 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-irc 13:55:39 Zakim has joined #me 13:56:17 Meeting: MEIG monthly meeting 13:57:20 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2023Sep/0015.html 13:57:21 scribe+ cpn 14:01:03 ChrisLorenzo has joined #me 14:01:32 ohmata has joined #me 14:01:49 JohnRiv has joined #me 14:01:50 present+ Chris_Needham, Chris_Lorenzo, Kazuyuki_Ashimura, Ryo_Yasuoka, Hisayuji_Ohmata, Ray_Holton 14:01:53 igarashi has joined #me 14:02:04 present+ 14:02:09 present+ Hiroki_Endo, John_Riviello 14:02:10 present+ 14:02:33 slideset: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1sadWsW1NZkfjlUdZ5FkXa_taUCzp1jyBNtemqY2WXgE/edit 14:04:29 cpn: first meeting after TPAC 14:04:35 ... list of topics there 14:04:42 ... anything missing? 14:05:05 ... Kaz, you mentioned MEIG Charter review status 14:05:33 -> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/meig2023/results AC review results (Member-only) 14:06:08 kaz: We got 21 reviews, 2 suggestions, 4 abstentions, so should be OK for approval. I'll work with PLH on the next steps 14:06:19 endo has joined #me 14:06:31 ... One general comment about this being a long standing charter, so should be updated 14:07:10 cpn: Are changes to the charter needed? 14:07:17 kaz: It should be OK, but I'll follow up on that 14:08:05 cpn: could be good to define more precise scope and objectives for each recharter 14:08:27 i/https/topic: Charter review status 14:08:35 topic: Review of TAPC outcomes 14:08:53 subtopic: DVB liaison on accessibility services 14:09:05 cpn: discussed with various groups during TPAC 14:09:19 ... APA WG, MEIG, TTWG 14:09:38 ... links for the minutes within the slides 14:10:16 ... wondering subtitle captions and audio description 14:10:24 ... should organize a separate call to discuss other aspects 14:10:38 ... screen readability, magnification in the UI 14:10:42 ... etc. 14:10:55 ... not sure if TTWG has looked into those points 14:11:42 ... Andreas, any feedback? 14:12:01 zakim, who is on the call? 14:12:01 Present: Chris_Needham, Chris_Lorenzo, Kazuyuki_Ashimura, Ryo_Yasuoka, Hisayuji_Ohmata, Ray_Holton, JohnRiv, Hiroki_Endo, John_Riviello, igarashi 14:12:20 ai: there was some reluctance from DVB 14:12:27 ... possibly IPR issues 14:12:33 ... depends on their policies 14:12:40 ... everybody can join the meeting 14:12:51 ... TT is mainly looking into subtitles 14:13:25 ... there is overlap with CTA WAVE specs as well 14:13:39 ... good to inform today's DVB context 14:13:47 cpn: yes, let them know 14:13:57 ... TTWG can send a response immediately 14:14:09 ... we can send a response to TTWG too 14:14:24 ... just need somebody to contact them 14:14:37 ... maybe Kaz as the Team Contact can talk with the TT Contact, Atsushi 14:14:46 ai: maybe Francois also 14:14:52 rrsagent, make log public 14:14:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:14:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 14:15:16 cpn: can record the minutes publicly this time 14:15:27 ... can generate some text as the basis for the liaison response 14:16:15 atai has joined #me 14:16:37 kaz: btw, the link on IRC is the one for the TPAC meeting. could you please give the correct link for today? 14:16:42 cpn: let me see 14:16:51 slideset: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/10Bh94n-CM7SlDet4TfscHsoWqOLR_QhSIe31hmoiXBI/edit 14:17:18 cpn: above 14:17:38 subtopic: HTML5 issues on embedded CE devices 14:18:06 cpn: John Riviello presented results of the recent survey by CTA WAVE 14:18:24 ... good collaboration with web platform test expected 14:18:44 ... where to define new APIs? 14:19:08 ... WAVE, etc., are working on recommended APIs 14:19:16 ... W3C can work on that 14:19:35 .. Web GPU, Web Assembly, etc., to be also considered 14:19:46 ... new capability to be discussed 14:20:02 ... the other thing is because we heard performance issues 14:20:20 ... we can capture something around any support? 14:20:30 ... concerned about some performance issues 14:20:58 ... we need to move to different kind of rendering approach if it can't be improved 14:21:15 ... John, want to add anything? 14:21:26 john: sure 14:21:51 ... it's tricky since related to low-power devices 14:21:59 ... actually, had a meeting yesterday 14:22:09 ... try to get content provider on board 14:22:27 ... can help the discussion 14:22:51 ... if there is the case, performance test may get momentum 14:23:18 cpn: in the media api cg, there is a draft document on supported devices 14:23:34 ... probably could get momentum 14:23:43 ... we should think about revisiting that 14:23:49 john: good point 14:24:01 cpn: next step pretty clear 14:24:10 ... going together with group of content 14:24:16 ... anybody here 14:24:24 ... would suggest get in touch with John 14:24:27 john: tx 14:24:36 subtopic: TV application development 14:24:47 cpn: identified particular need 14:25:20 ... to simplify deployment to devices during app development 14:25:26 ... across devices 14:25:43 ... deployment and installation 14:25:54 ... we have draft document outlining the problems 14:26:19 -> https://github.com/w3c/media-and-entertainment/blob/master/app-development/html-launch.md Launching Web Applications on consumer products 14:26:50 cpn: Chris Lorenzo, anything to add? 14:27:08 cl: talking group about standardization 14:27:25 ... talking within Comcast, including proprietary approaches 14:27:41 ... need discussion with device manufacturers as wel 14:27:44 s/wel/well/ 14:27:56 q+ 14:28:07 cpn: not sure if manufacturers are here today 14:28:44 ... if we say we see DIALs, who is allowed to launch what? 14:29:01 ... good stuff for the next steps 14:29:16 cl: even start with one 14:29:29 ... write down the steps and talk with the manufacturers 14:29:49 q? 14:30:16 john: WAVE met last week and had discussion 14:30:24 ... ATSC is handling something 14:30:31 ... HTML entry page description 14:30:48 ... ATSC, HbbTV and some other from Asia 14:31:01 ... they could put the requirements 14:31:07 cpn: interesting 14:31:19 ... Louay also mentioned testing framework 14:31:30 ... coming from TV delivery-centric 14:31:38 ... various use cases for that 14:31:48 ... BBC as a broadcaster also has some 14:32:06 ... then other cases, on TV devices 14:32:16 ... app installed and launched 14:32:23 ... through remote or not 14:32:35 ... maybe worth considering about the details 14:32:59 ... starting with some of the manufacturers 14:33:14 ... don't want to mention concrete names here :) 14:33:25 q? 14:33:26 ... any other thought on this? 14:33:28 q- 14:33:55 subtopic: Cross-industry media distribution 14:34:05 cpn: interesting discussion during breakouts 14:34:26 ... metadata to enable cross-industry media distribution 14:34:30 ... organized by NHK 14:34:40 ... for the publishing industry as well 14:34:50 ... in the discussion, real focus on metadata 14:35:00 ... to enable these kind of use cases 14:35:16 ... we're open for the next steps 14:35:28 ... media metadata defined by many SDOs 14:35:36 ... how to get recommendation? 14:35:50 ... can identify the details? 14:36:15 ... specific issues with the JP market driving this discussion? 14:36:38 s/details/detailed and specific use cases/ 14:37:00 ... identify particular standards and requirements? 14:37:06 ... any additional thoughts? 14:37:21 ... particular those participating the session? 14:37:34 s/particular/particularly/ 14:37:35 q? 14:37:40 q+ 14:37:59 q+ 14:38:30 kaz: There are at least two viewpoints on this, target areas for metadata usage, broadcasting and OTT video distribution services, in MEIG 14:38:51 ... NHK are thinking about broader services, including video distribution, publishing, toys and games, and so on 14:39:31 ... Any kind of applications and services based on specific content. A famous comic has characters and products, so the relationship between those products would be in scope as well 14:40:19 ... For that purpose, think about how to proceed, broadcasting may be handled by MEIG internally, but other areas might require another group or further liaisons with other SDOs or stakeholders 14:40:25 cpn: interesting 14:40:44 ... one of the possible use cases is TV program related to some e-book 14:40:58 ... buying one product related to another 14:41:25 ... not sure how to handle the relationship at the moment 14:41:31 ... but may need some metadata 14:41:40 ... so that we can identify the cross-reference 14:41:57 ... linked data kind of approach 14:41:58 q? 14:42:33 ack k 14:42:36 kaz: yeah 14:42:38 kaz: PLH described W3C's activities in two categories: browser and data on the web areas, this relates to both 14:43:17 igarashi: have a comment about the idea 14:43:29 ... the requirement is only about the JP market? 14:43:48 ... also media distribution industry? 14:44:06 ... the intention is not only broadcasting but could include publishing 14:44:33 ... probably NHK needs to involve people from not only Japan 14:44:47 ... also to involve the other industry stakeholders 14:44:51 q? 14:44:53 ack i 14:44:58 ... that's my suggestion 14:45:02 q? 14:45:27 cpn: we have a good relationship with the publishing group within W3C as well 14:45:41 ... could look into their idea 14:45:55 ... relationship between TV show and e-book 14:46:02 ... also other kind of products 14:46:17 ... would get other industry stakeholders too 14:46:18 q+ 14:47:02 kaz: I agree, we could start with a smaller discussion as a basis, e.g., collaboration between broadcasting and publishing, and further media mixed services after that 14:47:04 ack kaz 14:47:16 ... I'd like to ask NHK guys opinions as well 14:47:39 Ohmata: The proposal covers a wide range in the media and non-media industries 14:47:52 rrsagent, make log public 14:47:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:47:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 14:48:06 ... I think the first steps, we have to discuss a simple use case such as broadcast and OTT 14:48:26 ... The next step in the media industry is, for example, TV and e-book 14:48:37 ... The last step would be media and other industry 14:48:47 chair: Chris_Needham, Chris_Lorenzo, Tatsuya_Igarashi 14:48:53 ... We had limited time in the breakout so we didn't discuss the detailed metadata issues 14:48:54 i/first meeting/scribenick: kaz/ 14:49:09 i/discussed with various/scribenick: kaz/ 14:49:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:49:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 14:49:24 ... So detailed discussion on the differences between metadata standards between countries, so this could be discussed step by step 14:49:38 cpn: happy to take your guidance around how to proceed 14:50:16 ... if you prefer holding a planning meeting privately, happy to do that 14:50:27 ... or looking into media meta data more in detail 14:50:43 ... we don't need to involve other groups 14:50:52 ... focus initially in the media industry 14:50:58 ... would that be a good next step? 14:51:04 q+ 14:51:43 igarashi: if NHK would like to focus on media industry first, MEIG would be a good place 14:51:50 q+ 14:52:02 ... Comcast also interested in applications on consumer devices 14:52:14 ... I have a question about media use cases 14:52:30 ... metadata is one of the industry assets 14:52:40 ... does NHK would like to standardize them? 14:52:52 ... or interested in the last-mile for OTT services? 14:52:57 ... what is your interest? 14:53:03 ack ig 14:53:44 endo: not answer to Igarashi-san but another comment 14:54:02 ... we don't plan to standardize metadata 14:54:38 ... specific use cases on media collaborations 14:54:49 q? 14:54:52 ack e 14:54:53 q+ 14:55:29 endo: We'd like to discuss privately as the next step 14:55:36 ack kaz 14:55:51 kaz: actually, the first point was an answer for Igarashi-san's question :) 14:56:09 q+ 14:56:29 igarashi: ok 14:57:00 cpn: we got some clarification 14:57:13 ... happy to organize another meeting when you're ready 14:57:30 subtopic: HDR 14:57:34 cpn: very active topic 14:57:52 ... Cristopher Cameron from Google presented at TPAC 14:58:10 -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18hvbKBF-v586kFlscpqQ9xYAW03euX6IwLX818G1XG0/edit Cristopher's slides 14:58:26 cpn: kind of layered model 14:58:50 ... how to handle WebGL extended range for HDR 14:59:27 ... if we can get alignment on the approach, though different video formats exist 14:59:46 ... if you're interested, please join the meetings 14:59:59 subtopic: AV Media Formats for Browsers CG 15:00:20 cpn: media capabilities API signaling of Dolby HDR metadata 15:00:28 ... prefer bringing into the MEIG 15:00:36 ... good to have one place for the discussion 15:00:52 subtopic: Media WG issues needing MEIG/WAVE input 15:01:15 cpn: issues on support for MPEG CMAF 15:01:40 ... there was a suggestion on opensource 15:01:56 ... is there still any gap? 15:02:13 ... not want to talk about the detail now 15:02:23 ... but would like to hold discussion another time 15:03:37 ... display capability and decode capability could be handles separately 15:04:57 ... expose video video plane pixel ratio 15:05:10 subtopic: Media WG exploratory work/proposals 15:05:22 cpn: several exploratory topics 15:05:31 ... hardware accelerated video capability 15:05:59 ... synchronized media playback between users 15:06:03 q+ 15:06:32 q- 15:07:16 Kaz: To clarify, synchronized playback between users, is that like bullet-chat, one video content with multiple inputs for subtitles from various users? 15:07:22 ... or TV based gaming? 15:08:19 Chris: It's more about different people in different places watching the same content at the same time 15:09:04 Kaz: tx for clarification. In that case, a possible use case is rather remote live session including players all the over the world :) 15:09:09 cpn: yes 15:09:17 DirtyHeisenberg has joined #me 15:09:20 [adjourned] 15:09:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:09:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:11:10 present+ Andreas_Tai 15:12:25 present- JohnRiv 15:12:32 present+ Tatsuya_Igarashi 15:12:36 present- Igarashi 15:12:46 present+ Kinji_Matsumura 15:12:59 present+ Francois_Daoust 15:13:03 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:13:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:13:30 i/We got 21/scribenick: kaz/ 15:13:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:13:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:13:44 i/We got 21/scribenick: cpn/ 15:13:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:13:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:15:00 i/There are at/scribenick: cpn/ 15:15:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:15:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:15:22 i/we could start with a/scribenick: cpn/ 15:16:14 i/cpn: interesting/scribenick: kaz/ 15:16:14 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:16:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:16:53 i/igarashi: have a comment/scribenick: kaz/ 15:17:11 i/PLH described W3C/scribenick: cpn/ 15:17:13 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:17:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:17:51 i/happy to take your gui/scribenick: kaz/ 15:17:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:17:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:18:09 i/We'd like to discuss p/scribenick: cpn/ 15:18:14 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:18:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:18:31 i/To clarify, synchro/scribenick: cpn/ 15:18:33 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:18:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:18:53 i/actually, the/scribenick: kaz/ 15:19:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:19:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 15:19:09 DirtyHeisenberg has left #me 15:19:37 i/tx for clarification/scribenick: kaz/ 15:19:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:19:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-me-minutes.html kaz 18:27:36 Zakim has left #me