IRC log of coga on 2023-10-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:09:22 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #coga
14:09:26 [RRSAgent]: logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/02-coga-irc
14:09:26 [Zakim]: RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:09:27 [Zakim]: Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:09:27 [lisa]: agenda?
14:09:40 [lisa]: clear agenda
14:10:05 [lisa]: agenda+ AG priorities schedule for what is missing in outcomes: - AG are working on outcomes and we need to put comments on scratch pad or on pull request . - See Drafts of Guidelines <https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1NSWwowQHzolbxAoepoRFisPEkdQO-Xh2> and WCAG Proposed Guidelines and COGA Input - new tasks <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Nw0uqseDHPiRfrC8NvnHAoX2HsRERblGEOGW6MU-jJM/edit#heading=h.8ipels5o86vi>
14:10:28 [lisa]: agenda+ scribe - see https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
14:10:51 [lisa]: agenda+ - New versions of issue papers (by Becca) on wayfinding (see https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1TDtuC_iMyS_X6nXwyEEAu4Abp2tXHb86/edit
14:11:02 [lisa]: agenda+ New versions of issue papers (by Becca) on conversational interfaces https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1B1vCqlU1IF5UmqxhJAy8Khdi-kRQNPalVX8f3lCMr7w/edit
14:11:23 [lisa]: agenda+ If time: How we store research - see If time: How we store research <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#heading=h.276waa1q75g8">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#heading=h.276waa1q75g8>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit#heading=h.276waa1q75g8
14:11:36 [lisa]: RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:11:37 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/02-coga-minutes.html lisa
14:52:05 [lisa]: lisa has joined #coga
14:56:00 [lisa]: agenda?
14:57:04 [DavidSwallow]: DavidSwallow has joined #coga
14:59:06 [rashmi]: rashmi has joined #coga
15:00:44 [Jennie]: Jennie has joined #coga
15:00:47 [kirkwood]: kirkwood has joined #COGA
15:00:49 [Jennie]: present+
15:00:53 [lisa]: scribe: ea
15:01:19 [Eric_hind]: Eric_hind has joined #coga
15:01:24 [EA]: EA has joined #coga
15:01:26 [abbey]: abbey has joined #coga
15:01:34 [EA]: +Present
15:01:46 [Becca_Monteleone]: Becca_Monteleone has joined #coga
15:02:23 [DavidSwallow]: present+
15:02:31 [EA]: Agenda Item 2 sign up for scribing please
15:02:31 [Eric_hind]: present+
15:02:33 [lisa]: take up item 2
15:02:39 [rashmi]: present+
15:02:51 [kirkwood]: present+
15:03:07 [lisa]: close item 2
15:03:15 [lisa]: ack next
15:03:20 [lisa]: close item 2
15:03:25 [Becca_Monteleone]: present+
15:03:27 [lisa]: next item
15:04:12 [julierawe]: julierawe has joined #coga
15:04:17 [julierawe]: present+
15:04:29 [EA]: WCAG issue to be discussed - a considerable amount of work with changing agendas
15:05:18 [EA]: Need to get feedback as quickly as possible - settling on main outcomes - going through the various guidelines... settling on outcomes
15:05:56 [julierawe]: q+
15:05:57 [EA]: The aim is to get things into Google docs so we need to respond to the efforst for inclusivity.
15:06:06 [EA]: efforts
15:06:29 [Jan_]: Jan_ has joined #coga
15:07:02 [lisa]: ack next
15:07:36 [EA]: Julie added that what would be most helpful would be if a coga member could attend the meetings tomorrow
15:08:13 [EA]: Need volunteers who are interested in the groups that will be meeting tomorrow.
15:09:13 [EA]: There is a need for 4 different volunteers.
15:10:05 [EA]: Been hard to recruit for every subgroups but hard when not enough people available at the times offered.
15:11:00 [EA]: Please review even if you cannot participate - still important to add comments.
15:11:10 [JustineP]: JustineP has joined #coga
15:11:21 [lisa]: ack next
15:11:28 [JustineP]: present+
15:11:39 [kirkwood]: q+
15:11:53 [julierawe]: q+
15:11:57 [lisa]: ack next
15:12:04 [EA]: There will be other times to comment as the documents will be moving into GitHub with a google doc - scratchpads may feel a bit hard to make comments on at this time
15:13:09 [EA]: John K suggested having our own Google doc page to deal with the issues arising as it can be hard when there are so many groups and pages
15:14:08 [EA]: Lisa shared a single table that provided a focus on critical issues as an example of the idea of having one page with current tasks
15:14:47 [EA]: John K suggested it was called Coga / WCAG subgroup tracker
15:15:11 [lisa]: ack next
15:15:24 [EA]: Julie mentioned that there was no time for the subgroup meetings.
15:15:58 [EA]: Rachael said that the first 30 mins will be talked about what is an outcome and then there will be breakout rooms for each sub group
15:16:25 [Rachael]: q+ to respond to Julie
15:17:28 [EA]: Julie and Katie pulled out a few of the different WCAG 3 subgroup contents that need to be highlighted as being important to coga
15:18:08 [kirkwood]: Yes they do all have scratch pads which would be good in our tracker
15:18:15 [lisa]: ack next
15:18:16 [Zakim]: Rachael, you wanted to respond to Julie
15:18:22 [EA]: Still need to fill in the subgroup guidelines that we have yet to have been check by coga task force members - Scratch pads can be used to pull out information.
15:18:29 [kirkwood]: oh nevermind
15:19:06 [EA]: Rachael suggested it might be worth waiting until each of the outcomes have been completed as the next version of the drafts being published
15:19:14 [julierawe]: Thanks, Rachael--sounds like it makes sense not to compile the lists I mentioned.
15:20:01 [Rachael]: q+
15:20:02 [EA]: Lisa mentioned the need to focus on the outcomes at the moment - two people to review each scratch pad - try to get people into the subgroups if possible.
15:20:46 [EA]: Lisa asked Rachael about the schedule as it is related to coga task force?
15:21:11 [EA]: Rachael suggested putting comments at the bottom of the scratch pad. That will make sure it is seen tomorrow by the groups
15:21:29 [EA]: There will be more opportunity for more detailed comments to be added in the future
15:22:22 [EA]: Rachael went on to say the Aid Navigation and the other group is Contol Semantics - an email will be sent round but having a couple of people involved in those subgroups would help
15:22:51 [EA]: John K asked if Consistent Design was one of the groups
15:22:55 [julierawe]: q-
15:23:08 [EA]: Rachael confirmed that it was
15:24:10 [EA]: Rachael stressed that there is still more time for more comments after the scratch pads have been written up.
15:26:38 [EA]: Each scratch pad is set up slightly differently but comments need to be at the bottom of the Outcomes section. Look for the last set of outcomes!
15:27:36 [kirkwood]: “really looking at last set of outcomes” is a good point
15:27:57 [EA]: Julie added that it really is a case of seeing if anyone has time today to help out with the comments on the present scratch pad documents
15:28:23 [Rachael]: +1 on worthwhile but no need be concerned if not able to.
15:28:59 [EA]: Lisa mentioned that it would be important to look at the mental health subgroup's work and David S has said he can review it.
15:30:32 [lisa]: text apperence https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lQcEsBTyEskhCVergFDHDHLdhSGeMrzpp1W8PErFOjA/edit#heading=h.spr6hfitvd9m
15:30:32 [EA]: Control and focus appearance and semantics also - EA to review
15:31:14 [EA]: Text appearance to be reviewed by EA
15:31:25 [EA]: User Control taken by Eric.
15:32:09 [EA]: October 10th agenda - provide help needs review - Jennie has reviewed the document
15:32:29 [EA]: 17th October - Julie and John are reviewing Clear Purpose.
15:33:19 [lisa]: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oy5Guap5wnMFhp4OPhgGn1ihuHYmksstPqMHMrc_Krg/edit#gid=0
15:33:28 [EA]: Lisa will review Error notification the full list is available in the spreadsheet link above
15:34:30 [EA]: Lisa thanked Rachael for all the work
15:35:35 [lisa]: reaserch plan https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit
15:35:37 [EA]: Becca's review and moving forward with issue papers is next on the agenda - a research plan is available
15:38:35 [lisa]: q?
15:38:39 [EA]: Lisa mentioned that more items have been added related to updated research papers and this will be continued - just linking to the resources was not enough - now have a form for research such as the mental health papers. Not sure what format this will all take - still needs to be worked on so keep citations ready for being used in a uniform way
15:38:40 [lisa]: ack next
15:38:46 [lisa]: next item
15:39:46 [EA]: Becca shared screen - draft of wayfinding paper.
15:41:14 [EA]: Becca said that the paper has been available for sometime and added 15 new papers - use cases added / Personas still to be settled upon how these are standardised
15:41:42 [EA]: Reviewed the challenges and added more information from the previous draft and now has a section on visual spatial function
15:42:38 [EA]: Proposed solutions not yet reviewed but need to consider the final form to get issues papers published
15:43:27 [EA]: Lisa said we need to get it to a state where it is possible to have ready for Content Usable - can be made into a wiki page without going through the publication process.
15:44:14 [EA]: However Lisa suggested that if we want to update all our issues papers for the W3C publication process she will discuss this process with Roy whether it is all the papers or just one.
15:45:24 [EA]: Updating papers need to go through a specific process - first need to have a discussion but at present publish this mental health paper as a note.
15:45:44 [EA]: sorry - wayfinding paper NOT mental health
15:46:34 [EA]: Becca returned to the wayfinding paper and found research for each solution point.
15:48:03 [EA]: Becca commented on the solutions individually and mentioned multiple means of access both manual, digital, alternative formats and think multimodal.
15:49:07 [lisa]: ack next
15:49:39 [lisa]: q+
15:49:49 [lisa]: ack next
15:49:53 [EA]: John K asked if there was a mention about the amount of time it takes to get anywhere - provide information that time it takes should be mentioned up front.
15:51:46 [EA]: Lisa felt that navigational applications can be quite hard to use and this is not mentioned in the issue paper. Complexity can cause stress and make getting lost even more worrying. Distractions by other items in the apps can also make it harder such as advertisments etc
15:52:28 [kirkwood]: just thinking to Lisa’s point are we missing the topic of ‘anxiety’? (not sure)
15:52:56 [EA]: Need to make developers understand the damage they are doing when there are other items causing a problem when trying to find a way
15:53:47 [EA]: Becca said that these issues are in the challenges section but not in the solutions
15:55:09 [EA]: Lisa feel it is not highlighted sufficiently - user story may help fill this gap - main issue may be that a solution has not been added even if it is seen as a challenge. It is a combination of anxiety and cognitive overload at once
15:56:50 [kirkwood]: “flooding” may be a good word too.
15:56:58 [EA]: Becca suggested that an emotional component needs to be added to reinforce the attention to this aspect of wayfinding.
15:57:04 [rashmi]: +q
15:57:22 [lisa]: ack next
15:58:35 [EA]: Rashmi suggested that time limit is also an issue - User case when trying to find ones way between two flights ... additional anxiety.
15:59:42 [EA]: Lisa suggested that it was important to know the reliability that the route provided is accurate - feedback from users etc to build trust in the wayfinding app.
16:00:34 [julierawe]: Gotta go to next meeting, thanks, everyone!
16:00:48 [Jennie]: Have a good week everyone!
16:01:18 [EA]: Lisa will send out research plan next week
16:01:34 [kirkwood]: well done!
16:01:37 [EA]: Thank you
16:01:40 [lisa]: RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:01:42 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/02-coga-minutes.html lisa