IRC log of wcag-act on 2023-09-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/21-wcag-act-irc
12:59:21 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:59:22 [Zakim]
Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
13:00:14 [Suji]
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13:00:59 [ToddL]
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13:02:55 [Suji]
present+
13:02:58 [ToddL]
present+
13:03:00 [dmontalvo]
present+
13:03:01 [trevor]
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13:03:07 [trevor]
present+
13:03:28 [ToddL]
scribe: ToddL
13:03:37 [ToddL]
zakim, take up next
13:03:37 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- ACT Standup -- taken up [from kathy]
13:04:32 [ToddL]
kathy: Last week TPAC, good atteendance. Todd only one that was not in attendance.
13:04:45 [ToddL]
kathy: to do secondary reqs.
13:04:59 [ToddL]
kathy: another change discussed to do with background
13:05:18 [ToddL]
Suji: Didn't get to much last week.
13:05:37 [ToddL]
trevor: Didn't get to much last week.
13:06:03 [ToddL]
Tom: not much last week
13:06:35 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: merged a couple PR's and go over Kathy's items. Planning and presentation for CSUN.
13:07:10 [ToddL]
zakim, take up next
13:07:10 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Recharter of AGWG -- taken up [from kathy]
13:07:20 [ToddL]
I did not get to anything last week as well.
13:07:39 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: AGWG to be rechartered.
13:08:12 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: A reset on the way participants will need to rejoin groups. Need nomination from IC rep.
13:08:33 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: IE applications will need to be revisited.
13:09:38 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: I will be taking care of IE reissue invitations.
13:10:09 [ToddL]
kathy: Does CG need to do anything?
13:10:21 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: CGs do not need to do anything.
13:11:04 [ToddL]
zakim, take up next
13:11:04 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- October 5th meeting cancelled -- taken up [from kathy]
13:11:24 [ToddL]
kathy: 5 Oct meeting is cancelled.
13:11:46 [ToddL]
zakim, take up next
13:11:46 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, ToddL
13:11:55 [thbrunet]
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13:12:03 [ToddL]
zakim, close item 3
13:12:03 [Zakim]
agendum 3, October 5th meeting cancelled, closed
13:12:04 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:12:06 [Zakim]
4. TPAC Update [from kathy]
13:12:09 [ToddL]
zakim, take up next
13:12:09 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- TPAC Update -- taken up [from kathy]
13:12:25 [thbrunet]
present+
13:12:32 [ToddL]
kathy: ANyone who was there feel free to share
13:12:59 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: A couple productive days at TPAC. Making progress in ACT rules 1.1
13:13:22 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: discussed subjectivity of rules, 118n, will be setting up wiki.
13:13:57 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: ariawg, discussed better communication on what is removed and updated
13:14:28 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: deprecation of rules discussed e.g., 4.1.1 Parsing
13:14:57 [ToddL]
kathy: both TF and community meeting super helpful.
13:16:17 [ToddL]
Suji: first time attending TPAC. Really good two days of sessions.
13:17:17 [ToddL]
trevor: Several big conversations that got resolved. e.g., Optional test cases.
13:17:33 [ToddL]
trevor: Still a lot of work to do.
13:20:27 [ToddL]
zakim, take up next
13:20:27 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Subjective exceptions in the applicability -- taken up [from kathy]
13:21:43 [ToddL]
trevor: main talking point. how to define subjective definitions. came up with several different ways.
13:23:09 [ToddL]
trevor: e.g., logical operators, scoring. Can be difficult to make formalized definitions.
13:23:23 [ToddL]
trevor: talked to Wilco about scoring approach
13:23:48 [ToddL]
trevor: The "getting warmer" method seemed to get the most traction
13:24:39 [ToddL]
trevor: concensus was default was similar to getting warmer method. we could use the logical operator method.
13:25:31 [ToddL]
trevor: Should definitions use concrete examples. Well-described examples.
13:26:05 [ToddL]
trevor: Wilco suggested closed subjective definitions to set them apart from other subjective definitions
13:26:29 [dmontalvo]
zakim, agenda?
13:26:29 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
13:26:30 [Zakim]
5. Subjective exceptions in the applicability [from kathy]
13:26:30 [Zakim]
6. Updating & renaming the background section [from kathy]
13:26:39 [ToddL]
trevor: Helen brought up complexity concerns that are difficult to implement or overwhelming for people getting into accessibility testing
13:28:03 [kathy]
scribe+: kathy
13:28:25 [kathy]
todd: had a testing discussion with developers. agree with not being too complex
13:29:18 [kathy]
... have heard wcag 2.x is too complex. try to keep complexity down would be great. include examples in definitions
13:29:59 [dmontalvo]
q+
13:30:06 [kathy]
trevor: ACT rules are more for people building test methodogies. not for new testers as much
13:31:17 [kathy]
... less ambiguity is better for harmonization
13:32:12 [kathy]
ack d
13:32:18 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: Not the group for people getting started with accessibility
13:33:04 [ToddL]
dmontalvo: let's make it useful for the prupose of the group. whenever we need to streamline, we can.
13:33:34 [ToddL]
thbrunet: tools need to accept they don't have 100% matching with ACT.
13:33:54 [ToddL]
thbrunet: depends on environment. people may not want to get involved with ACT
13:34:07 [ToddL]
+1, agree.
13:34:43 [ToddL]
kathy: Getting Warmer method is new to me.
13:35:50 [ToddL]
kathy: what would help for me is when someone is looking at list of items, how many of those items would mean it's a heading for example
13:36:32 [ToddL]
kathy: put some parameters around Getting Warmer method
13:36:37 [ToddL]
q?
13:38:43 [ToddL]
trevor: leaning towards stripping out some stuff
13:40:46 [ToddL]
kathy: having examples will help with understanding. concerns with looseness.
13:41:26 [ToddL]
thbrunet: could mark them like "beta". once some rules are out could work on more
13:44:58 [trevor]
https://confluence.mitre.org/display/DIGR/Local+LLM+Setup
13:45:12 [trevor]
https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2050
13:47:32 [ToddL]
group discussion on navigation example and definitions
13:47:50 [dmontalvo]
ToddL: s\https://confluence.mitre.org/display/DIGR/Local+LLM+Setup\\
13:48:17 [ToddL]
trevor: how to make definitions with examples with more than one distinct definition
13:48:34 [dmontalvo]
s\https://confluence.mitre.org/display/DIGR/Local+LLM+Setup\\g
13:49:37 [ToddL]
zakim, take up next
13:49:37 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- Updating & renaming the background section -- taken up [from kathy]
13:50:07 [ToddL]
kathy: Topic came out of TPAC discussion last week
13:50:54 [ToddL]
kathy: feedback was this was a bit too long
13:51:33 [ToddL]
kathy: accessibility support and assumptions will go under background
13:52:25 [ToddL]
kathy: background renamed to Understanding
13:52:44 [ToddL]
zakim, agenda?
13:52:44 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
13:52:45 [Zakim]
6. Updating & renaming the background section [from kathy]
13:53:16 [ToddL]
kathy: Wilco will be out the next two weeks, Daniel out next week.
13:53:51 [dmontalvo]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:53:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/21-wcag-act-minutes.html dmontalvo
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