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11:43:35 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-coga-irc
11:43:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:43:36 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
12:21:01 <Lisa> agenda+ Scribe  https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
12:21:05 <Lisa> agenda?
12:21:50 <Lisa> clear agenda
12:22:17 <Lisa> agenda+ updates from tpac. wcag particpation
12:22:28 <Lisa> agenda+ image subgroup update
12:22:39 <Lisa> agenda+ next week, do we have a meeting?
12:23:53 <Lisa> agenda+ stucture subgroup
12:24:25 <Lisa> agenda+ how to store reaserch. Plan: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wu0WYcvCpp-zIz2NzPk2AuTJOrzgh3T4sKQgzCa10ps/edit
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13:52:26 <lisa> agenda?
13:52:35 <lisa> q?
13:52:40 <lisa> ack next
13:55:01 <lisa> regrets+ tiffany
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14:49:33 <lisa> agenda?
14:53:02 <lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:53:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-coga-minutes.html lisa
14:53:13 <lisa> Q?
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14:59:43 <Rain> present+
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15:01:21 <lisa> scribe: becca
15:01:40 <Jennie> present+
15:01:44 <lisa> scribe+ becca
15:01:46 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
15:01:49 <Eric_hind> present+
15:01:56 <Jennie> *Apologies, I am only here for 30 minutes
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15:02:20 <Albert> present+
15:02:34 <lisa> next item
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15:02:51 <JustineP> present+
15:03:18 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie, Lisa, and John attended TPAC
15:03:41 <Becca_Monteleone> Julie also attended
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15:03:50 <DavidSwallow> present+
15:03:51 <julierawe> present+
15:04:22 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: Went to ADAPT session on Wednesday. Exciting work around symbol registry. Good for COGA to be aware of.
15:04:35 <Rain> +1 to exciting opportunities with the Bliss symbols being added to unicode!
15:05:28 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: Blisssymbols is a symbol set used on AAC devices.
15:06:12 <Rain> Wikipedia link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blissymbols
15:07:32 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Blissymbols developed to anchor language to real things in mid-century. Non-speaking people found to learn and use many more symbols than words. ADAPT working to map different languages to Blissymbols.
15:09:50 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: plan to use those concept codes to allow people who use a symbol sets as their main language to access a broader set of concepts. Many symbol sets are copywritten, which limits communication opportunities. This project would allow people to handshake between different symbol sets
15:10:20 <kirkwood> present+
15:11:14 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Anticipate complications across natural languages, but would allow cross communication across different texts and symbol sets.
15:11:27 <Jennie> q+
15:11:51 <Jennie> q-
15:13:05 <lisa> q+
15:13:27 <kirkwood> interesting point about symbol sets essentially being ‘different languages’
15:14:06 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: Excited to see this because there is no one symbol set that works for all people and this would allow users to customize communication based on their preferred symbol set.
15:15:01 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: We've produced a demo page that demonstrates how the numbers are mapped to different symbol sets.
15:16:39 <Becca_Monteleone> Julie: Sat in on Monday APA meetings.
15:18:31 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Worked with Rachael's group on Monday drafting initial guideline on reducing cognitive load. Suggested COGA continuing to work on that offline.
15:18:46 <Jennie> q+ re Help work on Thursday
15:18:57 <Becca_Monteleone> A;bert, John, and Julie interested in contributing to that.
15:21:57 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Attended APA meeting Monday to talk internationalization. Re: internationalization - COGA could do research on different kinds of lanaguages to ensure we have representation from each language family to increase buy-in. Will continue conversation.
15:22:05 <Jennie> q-
15:22:25 <lisa> ack next
15:22:52 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: Participated in Thursday session on Help with AG. All different kinds of help identified. Took care to incorporate content usable
15:23:21 <lisa> ack next
15:23:22 <Becca_Monteleone> John: Also attended and agree.
15:23:37 <lisa> next item
15:24:37 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie needs to step back from images subgroup leadership
15:25:08 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Rain and John can continue it and welcome other members
15:25:48 <Becca_Monteleone> Jennie: Will communicate with Rain and John re: contributors
15:26:07 <lisa> next item
15:26:46 <Rain> q+
15:26:50 <lisa> can you attend week
15:26:51 <julierawe> -1
15:26:53 <Rain> +1
15:27:00 <kirkwood> -1
15:27:08 <Albert> +1
15:27:09 <Eric_hind> +1
15:27:10 <DavidSwallow> +1
15:27:19 <Becca_Monteleone> -1
15:27:19 <JustineP> +1
15:27:27 <Jennie> -1
15:27:38 <Jan_> Jan_ has joined #coga
15:27:45 <lisa> ack next
15:27:49 <Jan_> I can attend next week
15:27:56 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Can facilitate next week to focus on structure and images.
15:28:52 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Will treat it as a subgroup meeting rather than quorum-based public COGA meeting
15:28:54 <lisa> next item
15:29:41 <Jennie> *Apologies - have to drop. Have a good 2 weeks.
15:31:07 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: draft of restructured patterns to increase usability and reduce redundancy.
15:32:43 <kirkwood> ignore Rain’s note above
15:34:17 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: card sort did not have consensus. Many people use content usable as a checklist (i.e. using the table of contents as a guide). Needed to verify that pattern names did not lead to misunderstandings if just read on their own
15:35:50 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Divided into four principles and sorted patterns. Document shows how these have been organized, where it appears in content usable, and notes suggesting how to update/revise current pattern text.
15:36:06 <lisa> hope that worked
15:36:32 <lisa> will ask roy to delet as well
15:37:16 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: In some cases, recommend patterns be split into 2.
15:38:03 <lisa> Q?
15:38:10 <lisa> Q+
15:38:16 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: A few substantial recommendations - for example, combining several patterns
15:38:43 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Ask COGA to add comments and thoughts on this proposal by next Monday
15:39:06 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Once this is approved, we can produce mock-ups for user testing
15:39:19 <lisa> Q?
15:40:02 <Rain> Link to section of document with the pattern architecture: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KHWpKAWOb6p7r-WdrdDUIqFB3BCVnLjRYVcEBM88hPQ/edit#heading=h.p18vxkcgkp7
15:40:04 <lisa> ack next
15:42:33 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Should be re-ordered under principles
15:42:44 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Have not addressed order yet.
15:44:12 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: "Clear design" is what the user sees/hears, "Clear User Flow" is about how the user interacts
15:44:44 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: May be clearer to call it something else like "Clear interaction"
15:45:18 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Or "clear user forms and tasks"
15:45:32 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: is hierarchy in flow or design?
15:46:23 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Another term we had was "clear processes" - saying "forms and tasks" may be more limiting. Hierarchy is in clear design because the user is not inputting anything in going through the hierarchy
15:46:38 <Becca_Monteleone> See Note 2 on document
15:47:08 <Jan_> +1 to clear components and layouts
15:47:50 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain suggested "Clear Components and Layouts" to replace "Clear Design" and "Clear Processes and User Flows" to replace "Clear User Flow"
15:48:34 <lisa> q?
15:48:42 <Becca_Monteleone> John: Hierarchy seems to straddle both categories.
15:48:51 <Jan_> Q+
15:50:13 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: In UX, "predictable hierarchy" might actually belong under "Easy to Understand Content." If the question is which role is reponsible, it's content strategy
15:51:20 <Becca_Monteleone> Note added to document to address later.
15:51:28 <lisa> ack next
15:52:28 <Becca_Monteleone> Jan: Consider the term "user interaction" which can be a little different than user flow. Based on if user interaction triggers what they expect it to trigger, rather than their flow
15:53:05 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Hierarchy becomes exposed because of what user does. It's hard to untangle from process.
15:54:09 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: We want to make this future-proof, so avoiding language like "site and page design," which are increasingly limited, and focusing more on the smaller components.
15:54:30 <Becca_Monteleone> Lisa: Components and layouts would not include the hierarchy of the site
15:55:07 <Becca_Monteleone> John: Could hierarchy be added to the title of the second column?
15:56:13 <Becca_Monteleone> Jan: maybe include the term information as one of the headers? As information architecture is key in digital design.
15:57:44 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Subgroup is asking COGA task force to provide as much feedback as possible by Monday. If easier to talk about your thoughts, join meeting on Thursday or Monday or reach out to Rain, Eric, John K., or Justine.
15:58:17 <Becca_Monteleone> Rain: Based on user research, getting this structure right is the most helpful thing we can do for users.
15:58:20 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.f0lpte83z41m
15:59:17 <julierawe> Thanks for all the great work, Rain and team!
15:59:33 <julierawe> I have to leave for another meeting, thanks!
15:59:36 <lisa>  RRSAgent, publish minutes
15:59:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-coga-minutes.html lisa
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