07:22:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #chinese-web
07:22:18 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/15-chinese-web-irc
07:23:40 <xfq> present+
07:23:44 <xfq> rrsagent, make log public
07:23:46 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
07:23:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/15-chinese-web-minutes.html xfq
07:24:28 <xfq> Meeting: Chinese IG TPAC 2023
07:24:42 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/chinese-ig/issues/246
07:26:22 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
07:26:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/15-chinese-web-minutes.html xfq
07:28:02 <xfq> present+ Ling Shi
07:28:06 <xfq> present+ Lei Zhao
07:28:09 <xfq> present+ Edwin
07:28:19 <xfq> present+ Hiroki Endo
07:28:33 <Lei_Zhao> Lei_Zhao has joined #chinese-web
07:30:50 <LuHuang> LuHuang has joined #chinese-web
07:31:00 <xueyuan> xueyuan has joined #chinese-web
07:39:55 <wm> wm has joined #chinese-web
07:40:02 <xfq> present+ Lu Huang
07:40:08 <xfq> present+ Yifan Luo
07:40:15 <xfq> present+ Harry Wang
07:40:31 <xfq> present+ Wanming Lin
07:40:36 <xfq> present+ xiaoqian
07:41:30 <xfq> scribe:
07:41:55 <xiaoqian> xiaoqian has joined #chinese-web
07:42:09 <xfq> scribe+
07:42:44 <lyf> lyf has joined #chinese-web
07:42:58 <lyf_> lyf_ has joined #chinese-web
07:42:59 <xiaoqian> scribe+
07:43:12 <xiaoqian> xfq: welcome to our Chinese-IG meeting
07:43:18 <ota> ota has joined #chinese-web
07:43:35 <igarashi> igarashi has joined #chinese-web
07:43:42 <xiaoqian> ... first, we have Qingjian Song from Microsoft Edge to talk about a few update in the PWA slide bar
07:43:43 <xfq> Topic: PWA in Sidebar: Leveraging innovation trends to improve user experience by Qingjian Song (Microsoft)
07:43:44 <igarashi> present+
07:44:10 <xfq> present+ Qingjian Song
07:45:26 <xfq> Qingjian: currently PWA is usable in different browsers and different devices
07:45:43 <xfq> present+ ota
07:46:22 <xfq> qinigjain: what's the difference of PWA and website runniing ini a standalone window?
07:46:38 <xfq> ... you can write a PWA on Windows to handle the JPEG editing and view
07:46:51 <xfq> ... in one simple sentence, it's like a Windows PWA application
07:46:55 <xfq> present+ Lin Li
07:47:07 <xfq> ... through the Project Fugu
07:47:18 <xfq> ... we keep adding native features to PWAs
07:47:43 <xfq> ... one thiing to be pay attention to iis responsive design
07:48:07 <Lei_Zhao_> Lei_Zhao_ has joined #chinese-web
07:49:29 <xfq> ... people can use App Copilot to create more scenarios that the user can interact with
07:49:56 <xfq> ... it's a new ecosystem that you can create an app in the sidebar
07:50:23 <xfq> ... now we plan to open it to the ecosystem
07:50:32 <xfq> ... to showcase web apps
07:50:53 <xfq> ... it means that it will get some new users and new straffic
07:51:01 <xfq> ... because it's a new surface
07:51:25 <xfq> ... we hope that it is a very little barrier and contains very minor changes to existing web apps
07:51:53 <xfq> ... so how to build a sidebar app?
07:52:15 <xfq> [Qingjian shows a web app manifest]
07:52:25 <xfq> qingjian: you can configure your site's web app manifest
07:52:46 <xfq> ... we write an explainer to get all kinds of feedback
07:52:53 <xfq> ... I think it's a very important stage
07:53:02 <lilin> lilin has joined #chinese-web
07:53:07 <xfq> ... to upstream everything into web standards
07:53:19 <lilin> present+
07:53:32 <xfq> ... if for some scenario you didn't want to install your website as PWA
07:53:41 <xfq> present+ angel
07:54:45 <xiaoqian> q+
07:54:52 <xfq> ... @@
07:55:09 <xfq> ... we propose that we add edge_side_panel member to web app manifest
07:55:32 <xfq> ... in the future we will consider to use name, short_name, description etc. from web app manifest
07:56:33 <xfq> ... we different different user agents
07:56:56 <xfq> ... because there are some different requiirements for different developers
07:57:03 <xfq> present+ Ding Wei
07:57:29 <xfq> present+ Wenjing Chu
07:57:52 <xfq> qingjian: @@1
07:58:02 <xfq> [Qingjian shows a demo]
07:58:14 <xfq> qingjian: the demo iis in a very early stage
07:58:40 <xfq> ... we work with iQIYI to add short video
07:58:51 <xfq> ... you can easily open that into a tab
07:59:01 <xfq> ... it can also be a source to promote a website
07:59:23 <xfq> ... here is the new design
07:59:43 <Lei_Zhao> Lei_Zhao has joined #chinese-web
08:00:08 <Xiaohan_Wang> Xiaohan_Wang has joined #chinese-web
08:00:31 <xfq> ... natively in the browser we will have more features to try to promote the usage of the sidebar
08:00:40 <xfq> ... it's quite different with traditional PWAs
08:01:31 <xfq> ... for next step we try to bring more capabilities to PWAs
08:01:41 <xfq> ... like manifest shortcuts
08:03:04 <xfq> [Qingjian introduces the use cases]
08:03:04 <xfq> qingjiani: it's a bit like extensions
08:03:04 <xfq> ... but the difference is that extension tries to access the DOM
08:03:04 <xfq> ... it's very low level
08:03:42 <xfq> ... we hope that we can keep a high level iinterface
08:03:57 <xfq> ... we try to standardize the side_panel member
08:04:13 <xfq> ... you can also use diisplay_override
08:04:24 <Dingwei> Dingwei has joined #chinese-web
08:04:42 <xfq> ... that's a direction of our upstream work
08:05:03 <xfq> ... I also notice that even Chromium is experimenting this
08:05:19 <xfq> ... welcome to go to read the sidebar explainer on github
08:06:21 <xfq> ... because that's in a very early stage
08:06:42 <xfq> ... configure PWA is just a first step
08:06:55 <xfq> ... how to land it into Edge is important
08:06:58 <xfq> q+
08:07:08 <xfq> xiaoqian: thanks Qingjian
08:07:19 <xfq> ... in this meeting Chromium proposed a @@ API
08:07:30 <xfq> s/in this meeting/during TPAC
08:07:39 <shi> shi has joined #chinese-web
08:07:57 <xfq> xiaoqian: is there any difference between this and the API you proposed?
08:08:03 <xfq> present+ Roy
08:08:04 <xiaoqian> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1295253
08:08:33 <xiaoqian> s/@@ API/Menu App API
08:08:53 <xfq> s/Chromium proposed a @@ API/Chromium proposed an App Menu API/
08:09:15 <xfq> Qingjian: this is different from sidebar API
08:09:48 <xfq> ... it provides convenience for already installed PWA
08:10:14 <xfq> ... it allows website A to install website B
08:10:32 <xfq> ... sidebar PWA is for enabling siidebar of a PWA
08:10:51 <xfq> ... it's like sidebar extensions
08:11:42 <xfq> ... extensions require additional installation by the user, while the sidebar does not require additional permission consent by the user.
08:12:03 <xfq> ... it is currently on github as an explainer
08:12:29 <xiaoqian> xfq: your talk remind me of our MiniApps Widgets specs
08:12:43 <xiaoqian> s/remind/reminds
08:12:56 <xiaoqian> ... I wonder if we can work together in the future
08:13:03 <xfq> scribe+ xiao
08:13:03 <xfq> scribe+ xiaoqian
08:13:06 <xfq> scribe- xiao
08:13:25 <xfq> Qingjian: yeah
08:13:31 <xiaoqian> Qingjian: also the -1 screen use cases
08:13:49 <xiaoqian> ... happy to work with the MiniApps community
08:13:51 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/TR/mini-app-white-paper/#miniapp-widgets
08:13:56 <xiaoqian> ... the design is actually quite similar
08:14:23 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
08:14:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/15-chinese-web-minutes.html xfq
08:15:02 <xiaoqian> ... both using declarative, Manifest
08:15:14 <xiaoqian> ... to minimise the cost, but maximise the opportunity to interact with the users
08:15:40 <xiaoqian> ... now Windows has opened this APIs to the developers
08:16:13 <xiaoqian> xfq: but the entrance is still the browsers, right? unlike the installable WebApps
08:16:51 <xiaoqian> @@: how the sidebar apis communicate with the main web pages?
08:16:57 <xiaoqian> ... once it's opened?
08:17:11 <xiaoqian> Qingjian: it's an independent web content
08:17:28 <xiaoqian> @@: how did it get the content of the web page?
08:18:12 <xiaoqian> Qingjian: it's not opened to the normal web pages, some extra files will offer this capacity
08:18:32 <xiaoqian> ... with the permission from users to transfer the content to the sidebar
08:18:47 <Roy> Roy has joined #Chinese-web
08:18:52 <xiaoqian> ... so there will be some extra API required of the browsers
08:19:14 <xiaoqian> @@: so right now it's still independent?
08:19:15 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
08:19:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/15-chinese-web-minutes.html Roy
08:19:31 <xiaoqian> Qingjian: right, but we are looking forward to future extensions
08:20:06 <xiaoqian> ... right now it's a slight improvement to the traditional web apps
08:20:47 <xiaoqian> Lei_Zhao: how the sidebar update the content?
08:20:47 <xiaoqian> Qingjian: since Sidebar is within the browsers
08:20:55 <xiaoqian> ... there should be a web store inside
08:21:08 <xiaoqian> ... all the update request should go to the web store
08:21:29 <xiaoqian> ... but right now it still needs further design and implementation
08:21:44 <xiaoqian> ... please talk to me if you have any thoughts or advice
08:22:30 <xiaoqian> ... we are working on the basic architecture of the Sidebar APIs
08:23:00 <xiaoqian> ... so very few partners are inside the experiment
08:23:43 <angel_> angel_ has joined #chinese-web
08:23:56 <angel_> present+
08:25:45 <xiaoqian> xfq: there has been several breakout sessions from the Chinese members this week
08:25:58 <xiaoqian> ... shall we have some discussion on the follow-up actions?
08:26:25 <xiaoqian> ... let's start with Accelerating the Web performance by compiling Javascript code to WASM session from Lin Shi
08:26:37 <xfq> Accelerating the Web performance by compiling Javascript code to WASM -> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-js2wasm-minutes.html
08:26:47 <xfq> Topic: Summaries and follow-up actions for the breakout sessions
08:26:52 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/breakouts.html
08:27:12 <xiaoqian> Wei: this is one of our attempts to work with the W3C community
08:27:34 <xiaoqian> ... we hear some good feedback from the other vendors
08:27:44 <xiaoqian> ... some of them show interest
08:27:54 <xiaoqian> ... some of them were doing similar works
08:28:29 <xiaoqian> Shi: these are our exception for WASM
08:28:50 <xiaoqian> ... DLL Support, this is under consideration in the WASM community
08:29:05 <xiaoqian> ... GC Support is very vital
08:29:14 <xiaoqian> ... DOM Support
08:29:42 <xiaoqian> ... using WASM as a fundamental language is a long term experiment
08:30:07 <xiaoqian> ... we would like to share the outcome of our experiment with the W3C community
08:30:45 <xiaoqian> ... right now we are working on stage 3
08:30:53 <xiaoqian> ... expecting more datas and performance metrics
08:31:49 <xiaoqian> xfq: it'd nice if there would some reports or proposals, as the basic of future discussion
08:31:49 <xfq> q?
08:31:49 <Dingwei> q+
08:31:57 <xiaoqian> ack Xiao
08:32:00 <xfq> ack xfq
08:32:01 <xiaoqian> ack xfq
08:32:05 <xiaoqian> ack Dingwei
08:32:20 <xiaoqian> Wei: I talked with Mike yesterday
08:32:45 <xiaoqian> ... look for a host of this open source project
08:32:58 <chunming> chunming has joined #chinese-web
08:33:01 <xiaoqian> ... we are still exploring the possibilities
08:33:37 <xiaoqian> ... it'd be great if the open source communities could work with the standard communities
08:34:01 <xiaoqian> xfq: agree
08:34:42 <xiaoqian> ... let's continue the discussion in the future
08:35:56 <xiaoqian> Lin: the high demanding RTC use cases session
08:36:07 <angel_> WebRTC doc:https://webrtc-live-streaming-tf.github.io/webrtc-use-cases/
08:36:38 <xfq> Subtopic: WebRTC use cases and requirements under high-demanding real-time communication scenarios
08:36:52 <xiaoqian> ... we got these use cases from our usage of WebRTC in practice
08:37:06 <xiaoqian> ... one is about the statics of the freezing time
08:37:31 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-WebRTC-usecases-minutes.html
08:37:39 <xiaoqian> ... we would like to have more precise metrics of the freezing time
08:37:54 <xiaoqian> ... this is about the video
08:38:02 <xiaoqian> ... another requirement is about the audio
08:38:25 <xiaoqian> ... we would like to have more parameters for the freezing of audio as well
08:38:49 <xiaoqian> ... there is another issues about the packaging of the audio
08:39:03 <xiaoqian> ... once it's bigger than 1500 characters
08:39:43 <xiaoqian> ... although it's still an unusual use case
08:40:04 <xiaoqian> ... but we have still some experiment in Audio Vivi
08:40:29 <xiaoqian> ... on high quality audio and video transmission
08:40:42 <xiaoqian> ... happy to work with all the vendors in the industry
08:41:43 <xiaoqian> ... the third issue is about the resuming the video once it goes to the background in iOS
08:42:00 <xiaoqian> ... we have filed an issue about it in Chromium
08:42:16 <xiaoqian> ... these are the suggestions from WebRTC usage
08:42:45 <xiaoqian> ... would like to work together to improve the user experience of the WebRTC together
08:43:02 <xiaoqian> s/WebRTC together /WebRTC
08:43:24 <xiaoqian> xfq: let's work on some requirement documents in the WNIG
08:43:55 <xiaoqian> ... there has been a lot of discussions within the Chinese members
08:44:14 <xiaoqian> Lin: right, we should also communicate the other participants in the breakout session
08:44:41 <xiaoqian> ... from the WebTransport WG, the WoT WG, and from the WebRTC WG
08:45:08 <xiaoqian> ... we should have further discussion about how to improve the specs
08:46:10 <xfq> Subtopic: Feel the Vibe: enhancing haptics for accessibility and more fun
08:46:16 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-minutes.html
08:46:54 <xiaoqian> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/breakout_haptics_TPAC/haptics.pdf
08:46:59 <xfq> [Roy shares screen]
08:47:15 <Lei_Zhao> Lei_Zhao has joined #chinese-web
08:48:13 <xfq> roy: In the process of developing games, Tencent Games discovered some needs for haptics, and used different haptics to feedback different information in the game
08:48:43 <xfq> ... They felt haptics could serve as a universal human language
08:49:15 <xfq> ... They hope to advance haptics technology in various orgnizations
08:49:45 <xfq> ... What kind of haptics represents what kind of information?
08:50:03 <xfq> ... maybe standardize it in W3C or some other SDO
08:50:51 <xfq> ... Through haptics, a lot of information can be given to low vision people
08:50:59 <xfq> [Roy introduces use cases]
08:51:20 <xfq> Roy: it is not just an accessibility use case
08:51:22 <xfq> ... also for media
08:51:34 <xfq> ... we also discussed with security folks
08:51:45 <xfq> ... it can also be used with Web Authentication
08:52:19 <xfq> ... In response to these needs, Tencent has already done a lot
08:52:47 <xfq> ... in ISO, MPEG, IETF, Khronos Group OpenXR etc.
08:53:06 <xfq> ... W3C has a Vibration API
08:53:23 <xfq> ...  But many needs cannot be met
08:53:47 <xfq> ... Microsoft is also developing a HapticsDevice API for the Web
08:54:19 <xfq> ... they want to work with various groups to move it forward
08:54:40 <xfq> present+ Sophia Wu
08:55:29 <xfq> xiaoqian: Tencent would like to work with vibration sensor vendors
08:58:02 <xfq> ... Maybe we can start a community group to discuss it
08:59:33 <xiaoqian> topic: How is your 2023 with W3C?
08:59:58 <xiaoqian> xfq: anything you would like to share about your 2023 in the W3C community?
09:00:07 <xiaoqian> ... any plan for next year?
09:00:22 <xiaoqian> ... please talk with your China team during the tea break
09:00:26 <xiaoqian> [adjourned]
09:00:34 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
09:00:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/15-chinese-web-minutes.html xfq
09:01:24 <xiaoqian> s/@@: so right/Xiaohan_Wang: so right
09:36:10 <Lei_Zhao> Lei_Zhao has left #chinese-web
09:42:06 <xfq> xfq has joined #chinese-web
10:32:13 <xfq> xfq has joined #chinese-web
10:55:08 <Zakim> Zakim has left #chinese-web
11:04:27 <xfq> xfq has joined #chinese-web
11:33:18 <xfq> xfq has joined #chinese-web
12:20:59 <xfq> xfq has joined #chinese-web
12:21:01 <xueyuan> xueyuan has joined #chinese-web
12:23:23 <xfq> xfq has joined #chinese-web
12:30:13 <xueyuan> xueyuan has joined #chinese-web