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06:29:42 <tidoust> Meeting: Technical Roadmap at W3C
06:29:42 <tidoust> Chair: Philippe Le Hegaret
06:29:43 <tidoust> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/9
06:29:44 <tidoust> clear agenda
06:29:46 <tidoust> agenda+ Pick a scribe
06:29:50 <tidoust> agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
06:29:52 <tidoust> agenda+ Goal of this session
06:29:54 <tidoust> agenda+ Discussion
06:29:56 <tidoust> agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
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09:06:59 <plh> Chair: plh
09:06:59 <dezell> present+
09:06:59 <plh> present+
09:06:59 <pchampin> present+
09:06:59 <scheib> present+
09:06:59 <Ege> present+
09:06:59 <nigel> Present+ Nigel_Megitt
09:07:38 <nigel> zakim, agenda?
09:07:38 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
09:07:38 <Zakim> 1. Pick a scribe [from tidoust]
09:07:38 <Zakim> 2. Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy [from tidoust]
09:07:38 <Zakim> 3. Goal of this session [from tidoust]
09:07:38 <Zakim> 4. Discussion [from tidoust]
09:07:38 <Zakim> 5. Next steps / where discussion continues [from tidoust]
09:09:49 <hadleybeeman> hadleybeeman has joined #techroad
09:09:49 <hadleybeeman> Present+
09:09:49 <nigel> zakim, take up next agendum
09:09:49 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Pick a scribe -- taken up [from tidoust]
09:09:49 <scheib> scribe: scheib
09:09:49 <scheib> plh: Public meeting & notes.
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09:09:58 <scheib> plh: Chairing meeting. Strategy lead at W3C
09:10:20 <scheib> Pablo from city IC
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09:10:48 <florian> Florian Rivoal, Invited Expert, Advisory Board
09:10:49 <scheib> hadleybeeman: invited expert
09:11:28 <dezell> David Ezell, I'm representing Conexxus in the Convenience Retail industry.
09:11:28 <pchampin> pchampin: Pierre-Antoine Champin, W3C fellow from Inria, strategy team, everything data
09:11:28 <scheib> scheib: Google Chrome
09:11:28 <hadleybeeman> Hadley Beeman, invited expert, Technical Architecture Group member
09:11:44 <nigel> Nigel Megitt, BBC, co-Chair TTWG, Chair ADCG
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09:12:02 <scheib> cwilso: Google Chrome
09:12:07 <Ege> Ege Korkan, Siemens AG, WoT CG Co-Chair and TF Lead of WoT Thing Description
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09:12:27 <cwilso> present+
09:12:35 <scheib> Carine Bournez
09:12:47 <scheib> Martin: W3C automotive focus
09:13:01 <MikeFisk_> Mike Fisk, Meta, security
09:13:02 <scheib> Masakazu Kita... working on epub reading system
09:13:50 <scheib> Ralph Swick acting CEO W3C
09:14:12 <plh> https://www.w3.org/2023/Talks/TPAC/bk-technical-roadmap/index.html
09:14:18 <MikeFisk_> present+
09:14:29 <scheib> topic: Introduction slides
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09:15:39 <nigel> q+ to ask who is the intended audience for the Vision?
09:15:42 <scheib> plh: Of note, we work on a compatible web, and not competing specifications
09:15:56 <Dingwei> Present+
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09:18:40 <scheib> plh: Regarding the definition of the web and scope:
09:18:59 <scheib> plh: Web User agents (browsers) are not the only area.
09:19:31 <scheib> plh: There is also Web Data. RDF, XML, JSON-LD, .... (see slides)
09:20:04 <scheib> plh: Often data is consumed software to software, without a user involved.
09:22:05 <scheib> plh: Technical Needs:
09:22:25 <scheib> plh: 1. Maintain the current platform.  2. Improve.  3. Expand the scope.
09:23:20 <scheib> plh: e.g. we had Geolocation, which was fairly stable.  Improvements were made but not adopted by all browser agents.
09:23:52 <scheib> plh: SVG is used widely, but specification not maintained.
09:28:11 <scheib> plh: expanding into new areas of need. e.g. epub user agents, VR/immersive, and internet connected cars.
09:29:53 <pchampin> and who is the user? the car owner, or the car driver? (not always the same person)
09:31:24 <scheib> plh: Super apps in china are an area of uncertainty.
09:31:47 <scheib> plh: AI and generative algorithms have emerging and unknown impact on the web.
09:33:21 <scheib> plh: Web3: Protocols, URL Scheme are typically done at IETF. W3C favors HTTP. No charter has been proposed for scope of web3.
09:34:39 <scheib> plh: Proposing a 'Pipeline' community group to identify upcoming technology trends, propose workshops, bring into groups.
09:34:52 <nigel> q?
09:35:00 <scheib> Topic: Discussion
09:35:05 <scheib> ack nigel
09:35:05 <Zakim> nigel, you wanted to ask who is the intended audience for the Vision?
09:35:09 <plh> ack nigel
09:35:48 <scheib> nigel: To what extent is the roadmap affected by financial considerations?
09:36:51 <scheib> plh: One consideration, not the most important.
09:36:54 <hadleybeeman> q?
09:37:19 <Dingwei_> q+ valuable to list any fields we do not want to touch?
09:37:58 <scheib> nigel: [asking for more nuance or detail]
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09:38:03 <tantek> present+
09:38:15 <scheib> plh: It's a balancing exercise.
09:38:28 <Dingwei_> Present+
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09:38:47 <Dingwei_> q+
09:38:49 <hadleybeeman> q+ to expand on what I think Nigel is saying
09:39:03 <cwilso> q- valuable
09:39:13 <tantek> q?
09:39:32 <plh> ack ding
09:39:37 <plh> q+ ege
09:39:49 <plh> q- ege
09:39:56 <MikeFisk_> q+ MikeFisk_
09:40:07 <dezell> q+ to ask about automotive
09:40:11 <scheib> Dingwei_: Would help to setup criterea, and have negative items known as well.
09:40:11 <plh> ack hadleybeeman
09:40:11 <Zakim> hadleybeeman, you wanted to expand on what I think Nigel is saying
09:40:20 <scheib> plh: agree
09:41:00 <scheib> hadleybeeman: How would we avoid a situation where many new financially substantial members might push for a direction not good for the web.
09:41:00 <tantek> +1 strong agreement with hadleybeeman
09:41:02 <tantek> q?
09:41:07 <scheib> plh: Mitigation by defining and following principals
09:41:08 <tantek> q+ to respond to hadleybeeman
09:41:10 <plh> ack mike
09:41:36 <scheib> MikeFisk_: We can define a roadmap, but will there be capacity to execute on that?
09:41:44 <plh> ack dezell
09:41:44 <Zakim> dezell, you wanted to ask about automotive
09:41:53 <scheib> dezell: A few things...
09:43:09 <scheib> dezell: Automotive has moved quickly. Expectations 5 years ago differ significantly from today. Automobiles resemble an IOT device todays.
09:44:20 <scheib> plh: Work in progress on a strategy for automotive.  Education needs to be done in the automotive industry.
09:44:23 <tantek> +1 plh
09:44:47 <scheib> plh: There is a parallel to the media industry.  15 years ago there was a need to inform what the web is.
09:45:17 <scheib> plh: thus, education first before producing technology.
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09:46:23 <scheib> plh: Mobile devices were divergent for some time until the iPhone
09:46:26 <plh> ack tantek
09:46:27 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to respond to hadleybeeman
09:46:40 <scheib> tantek: In reply to hadleybeeman:
09:47:09 <dezell> q+ to ask about the web application "gap"
09:48:34 <scheib> tantek: We've relied on individuals and Tim as director to resist doing 'the bad things'. The Vision document and taskforce are the transition.
09:48:38 <nigel> q+ to ask if we should have a member-visible or public risk analysis of new roadmap items
09:48:48 <scheib> tantek: As a member based organization, we can use the vision document / group, but it will still rely on individuals.
09:48:58 <scheib> tantek: Regarding Automotive:
09:49:05 <tantek> https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/
09:49:11 <scheib> tantek: Mozilla research
09:49:53 <scheib> tantek: While browsers as user agents have prioritized users' privacy and data the automotive industry hasn't.
09:50:04 <plh> ack dezell
09:50:05 <Zakim> dezell, you wanted to ask about the web application "gap"
09:51:06 <scheib> dezell: we have been reaching out to automotive manufacturers to evangelize the value of prioritizing these things.
09:51:24 <scheib> dezell: 2nd question:
09:51:35 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/ping/blob/main/summaries/PING-minutes-20230907.md#1-consent-handling-in-the-context-of-the-w3c-auto-wg-viss-spec-with-guests-from-the-w3c-auto-wg
09:52:31 <scheib> dezell: Been a fan of Web Applications. They are often better fit vs other application platforms.
09:53:25 <scheib> dezell: But there are a group of developers who eschew a web app vs native app because there is something they need that CSS(etc) can't do.
09:53:27 <plh> ack nigel
09:53:27 <Zakim> nigel, you wanted to ask if we should have a member-visible or public risk analysis of new roadmap items
09:53:44 <scheib> dezell: Perhaps we can better identify a layer etc to address that.
09:54:14 <scheib> nigel: When threat analysis is done, how visible is it to members and the public?
09:54:34 <scheib> plh: There is a mixture. It depends on how problematic the situation is.
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09:55:22 <scheib> plh: EME (encrypted media extensions). Lots of discussion about working in this space. Have developed some positions on this.
09:55:54 <scheib> plh: Tension on finger printing (user privacy) and web performance.
09:57:21 <plh> q?
09:57:21 <scheib> nigel: Would be helpful to report out clearly, before charter, on concerns and risks. e.g. automotive concerns.
09:58:27 <nigel> also positive signs about potential new work fitting with the vision and principles
09:58:30 <scheib> topic: Next steps / where discussion continues
09:58:36 <scheib> plh: We have two taskforces
09:58:42 <scheib> plh: Incubation
09:59:15 <scheib> plh: identifying new work, what areas, how fast.
09:59:25 <plh> DingWei
09:59:32 <scheib> plh: Led by DingWei
09:59:33 <nigel> w/threat analysis/strength, opportunity, threat analysis
09:59:54 <plh> q?
10:00:10 <Dingwei_> thanks, need all your help…
10:00:26 <tantek> thank you plh
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11:27:23 <caribou> RRSAgent, draft minutes
11:27:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-techroad-minutes.html caribou
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