06:46:23 RRSAgent has joined #cross-industry-media-content 06:46:27 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-irc 06:46:27 RRSAgent, do not leave 06:46:27 RRSAgent, make logs public 06:46:58 Meeting: Facilitating media content distribution across industries 06:46:59 Chair: Hiroki Endo 06:46:59 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/63 06:46:59 clear agenda 06:46:59 agenda+ Pick a scribe 06:46:59 agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy 06:46:59 agenda+ Goal of this session 06:46:59 agenda+ Discussion 06:46:59 agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues 06:46:59 Ian has left #cross-industry-media-content 07:13:32 Ian has joined #cross-industry-media-content 07:13:47 RRSAgent, do not leave 07:13:47 RRSAgent, make logs public 07:13:48 Meeting: Facilitating media content distribution across industries 07:13:48 Chair: Hiroki Endo 07:13:48 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/63 07:13:54 Ian has left #cross-industry-media-content 10:07:28 ohmata has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:10:10 nigel has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:14:48 Mizushima_ has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:15:20 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 10:15:57 kaz has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:16:12 meeting: Facilitating media content distribution across industries 10:16:27 ktoumura has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:17:24 present+ Nigel_Megitt 10:17:31 Bert has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:17:46 cpn has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:17:48 present+ 10:17:53 RRSAgent, pointer? 10:17:53 See https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-irc#T10-17-53 10:18:07 present+ 10:18:09 present+ 10:18:15 scribenick: kaz 10:18:31 Ege_ has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:18:39 endo: Endo from NHK 10:18:55 ... due to COVID-19 case, joining from Tokyo remotely 10:19:13 scribe+ cpn 10:19:30 Endo: Media content include TV programmes and news articles 10:20:43 igarashi has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:20:51 present+ Tatsuya_Igarashi 10:22:01 ... The reach of content is limited due to fragmentation of deliver methods or services and platforms 10:22:01 ... Use cases for content distribution across industries, and hints for cooperation across industry 10:22:01 present+ 10:22:44 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura 10:22:44 naomi has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:22:49 rrsagent, make log public 10:22:52 shiestyle has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:22:58 present+ 10:23:14 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:23:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 10:23:22 Daihei has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:23:22 present+ 10:24:50 endo has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:24:50 i/Endo from/topic: Logistics/ 10:24:50 Nigel Megitt, BBC, co-chair TTWG and ADCG 10:24:50 Chris Needham, BBC. Media WG co-chair, and MEIG co-chair 10:24:54 daihei: Daihei Shiohama, co-chair of Publishing BG 10:25:35 Tatsuya Igarashi, Sony Group, co-chair of MEIG, and AB member. 10:25:35 atsushi has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:25:37 Atsushi Shimono, W3C 10:25:46 Kunihiko Toumura, Hitachi 10:25:49 Shinya Takami: KADOKAWA (publisher in Japan), co-chair of Publishing Maintenance WG 10:26:26 oyoshiba has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:26:26 Daihei SHIOHAMA, Media Do International (eBook distribution in the US) co-chair of Publishing Business Group 10:27:00 Ryo Yasuoka, NHK 10:27:00 Hisayuki OHMATA NHK 10:27:00 Kaz Ashimura, W3C 10:27:00 Self-intro: Bert Bos, W3C, on the I18N WG, Math WG and SDW WG, and W3C communications team. 10:27:00 Ege Korkan, Siemens AG 10:27:39 pat has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:27:46 tomikura has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:27:59 I am Tomoaki Mizushima from Internet Research Institute, Inc. 10:28:33 I am Pat Griffis/Dolby Labs 10:28:33 Endo: In this session we distinguish between media and non-media insdustry 10:28:36 Osamu Yoshiba from. KODANSHA, Publishing House in Japan 10:28:41 ... media industry inludes broadcasting and OTT services and publishers 10:28:43 I am Yukio Tomikura, from Kodansha, Japanese publishing company. I'm in charge of selling e-books 10:29:08 ... NHK has proposed various use cases where media content can be used across industries 10:29:24 i/Endo:/@@@ Kaz will move Endo-san's words later/ 10:29:39 ... In previous TPAC sessions, 2022 a WoT breakout session, the need for common rules for media content metadata was noted 10:29:52 i/Endo: In this/topic: Focus of the session/ 10:30:18 ... So far, there have been effots on inter-industry collaboration, on media player functions, rights management technologies, controlling IoT devices, metadata vocabulaties 10:30:32 i/Pat G/Timo Kunkel, Dolby Labs/ 10:30:35 ... Best practices for media content metadata is not sufficiently shared 10:30:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:30:44 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 10:31:24 ... We have two media industry presentations 10:31:24 i/I this session/Slides: @@@/ 10:31:27 ... The first is from broadcasting, the second from publishing 10:31:58 ... We want to discuss four main topics: efforts for cooperation in the media industry, coorperation between media and other industries 10:32:10 ... we welcome any Q&A 10:33:00 Topic: Use cases from the broadcast industry 10:34:03 present+ Pat, Timo, Ohmata, Yasuoka, Naomi, Atsushi, Shinya, Yukio 10:34:03 Ohmata: Current use cases and issues from the media industry in Japan 10:34:03 ... from NHK and metadata providers, IPG and M Data 10:34:10 ... Starting with current use cases and issues. Broadcast service was launched in Japan in 1953, and digital since 2000 10:34:31 present+ Hiroyuki_Endo 10:34:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:34:39 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 10:34:54 ... Typical way to access TV programmes is from a programme guide. Thinking about the programme data, it's multiplexed into the brodcast side, then demuxed and presented to viewers as an EPG 10:35:13 i/In this session/Slides: @@@/ 10:35:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:35:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 10:35:25 ... The format of the data is a broadcast standard. In Japan, there's no platform operators for terrestrial 10:35:59 ... All broadcasters now provide internet services. We've provided web pages for programmes and news since 2000, and catchup and live of TV programme services 10:36:25 ... NHK provides content metadata to platforms. Other broadcasters also provide catch up programmes 10:36:50 ... Conventionally broadcasters only had to deal with standard formats for broadcast, but APIs vary by platform, so the operational cost is too much 10:37:05 ... Data exchange tools, and checking of data 10:37:50 present+ Mirja Kühlewind 10:37:50 ... NHK issues, we're now renewing web pages to use schema.org to make it easier to find and link pages and programmes 10:37:53 ... But operators aren't motivated to input the metadata 10:38:12 ... By describing the data items necessary for all platforms, the size of the metadata is increased 10:38:58 ... Use cases from metadata providers: TV programme and retail business, the media and non-media industry use case 10:39:37 ... IPG is a metadata company which provides data from broadcasters, and add information to the metadata and organise related content 10:39:53 ... Their vision is opportunities to reach content by maintaining the metadata 10:40:13 ... When the user selects a programme, the services that can provide the program are presented 10:40:40 ... To provide the service there's a deep link to the catchup video on each service 10:40:58 ... When we search by programme name or actor in Google search, the metadata can be presented 10:41:20 ... We use Google's knowledge panel format, to give more accurate information to viewers 10:42:15 ... Issues include renumbering of continuous broadcast of episodes, different rules for structurnig VoD content varies by platform 10:42:47 ... Another metadata company is M Data. They gather text data from all TV programs broadcast in Japan 10:43:45 ... Two types of metadata: scene data, which station and time, and topic presented, what items were presented. Commercial data includes company name, URL of e-commerce site, price 10:44:25 ... Broadcast has influence on daily life, so TV metadata has the potential to connect broadcast to other services 10:44:40 ... Supermarkets can use TV metadata to promote sales 10:45:22 ... There are issues, not easy to create metadata when the product in the TV program cannot be uniquely identified 10:45:40 ... Mapping TV metadata to the data used in the retail industry isn't easy 10:45:52 ... Now, retail industry tries to make common rules on the data formats 10:46:31 ... To summaries, TV metadata must be created for each OTT platform, so it's neessary to discuss the design of metadata to coorerate across industries 10:46:47 ... What to do to solve these issues? Align to common web standards? 10:47:02 ... Active research area in NHK 10:47:21 Yasuoka: Proposed system from NHK R&D 10:47:42 ... The content discovery system is a web based system for delivering TV programmes 10:47:52 ... We created a prototype 10:47:59 ... [shows demo video] 10:50:27 ... We're also presenting use cases that connect to services other than broadcasting and OTT 10:51:46 scribe+ nigel 10:51:46 q+ 10:52:06 cpn: Is the situation that you do not have a common metadata standard across all broadcasters 10:52:16 .. and service providers that works across all devices? 10:52:33 .. Which standards do you use if they exist? Are there standards that are not well adopted 10:52:37 q+ 10:52:47 .. or are you trying to move from multiple competing standards to a harmonized approach? 10:52:49 ack c 10:53:06 q+ 10:53:27 Ohmata: There are broadcast standards, and the OTT service has many formats, so a minimum requirement is common metadata to connect services between broadcast and other services 10:53:44 ack kaz 10:54:23 Kaz: There are two levels of question: common or integrated metadata for broadcast purposes, then the next level is thinking about further development and integration of metadata for all media distribution related industries, not just broadcasting 10:55:05 ... So which direction to go? Create an integrated standardised metadata, or think about how to reuse metadata from different industries 10:55:13 q? 10:55:22 q+ to ask if you are proposing a new standard or promoting adoption of an existing standard? Is there a protocol for pointing to broadcast content? 10:55:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:55:28 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 10:56:00 i/Current use cases and/Slides: @@2/ 10:56:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:56:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 10:56:29 Endo: Our prototype for future use cases is based on schema.org. Other standards, i think the media industries shares the metadata for media content, and cooperate with other industries 10:56:35 q? 10:56:53 oyoshiba has joined #cross-industry-media-content 10:57:03 ack igarashi 10:57:18 Igarashi: I'd like to clarify, you'd like to create a new metadate standard for OTT, because they don't accept broadcast standards? 10:57:22 Endo: Yes, I agree 10:57:24 pat griffis in the queue 10:57:40 q+ pat 10:58:10 Endo: Existing industries would like to adapt another standard or spec, it's important to use existing standards where possible 10:58:39 ... many standards or data catalogs, we'll contribute to those groups 10:59:04 Igarashi: Do you expect to have a new standard that's shared across the broadcasters? 11:00:13 Endo: Operators includes broadcasters and OTT providers, they have common issues, what industry collaboration does this need, we identified from interviews 11:00:25 q? 11:00:46 ack nigel 11:00:46 nigel, you wanted to ask if you are proposing a new standard or promoting adoption of an existing standard? Is there a protocol for pointing to broadcast content? 11:01:21 Nigel: Are there already standards for the protocols for reaching the linked content. The video shows someone clicking on a programme, goes to a broadcast or OTT. Is this something that exists already as a standard? 11:02:02 NHK is promoting scheme.org, is not it? 11:02:59 q+ 11:03:16 s/scheme/schema/ 11:03:17 Endo: Existing standards are possible. We don't propose a new standard. We can share a minimal common vocabulary or best practices to describe the metadata 11:03:19 Yes, NHK think schema.org is a better solution. 11:04:27 Endo: One example is TVs have seasons and episodes, these schema name each other, but a TV programme doesn't have such a structure in schema.org 11:04:51 ... so which parameter is used by some operators in each company is decided by themselves 11:05:19 q? 11:05:29 ... So my idea is we can share best practices 11:06:16 ack pat 11:06:51 Pat: With my SMPTE hat on, the issue of uniquely identifying content on a global scale is something SMPTE does already with studio content, and Netflix 11:07:34 ... So I'd encourage you to bring it to SMPTE to get a solution not only for broadcast but also pre-production 11:07:41 ... The metadata is complex. Hollywood movies have 300 versions, multiple languages, different cuts, etc 11:07:57 ... So if we're having a system to identify content, it needs to allow for other forms of content 11:08:19 ... Another use cases is user-generated content? How to tag that so that it can interoperate? 11:08:41 ... The problem of identifying content could be a SMPTE work item, to get other broadcasters involved 11:08:47 q? 11:09:03 Daihei: I represent the media side of a publishing business 11:09:36 ... The content has its own rules, they have to merge, but at the same time if SMPTE works on it, but the content side doesn't know 11:10:18 ... On the media side we have difficulty on how to make them available, so some interface is needed 11:10:23 ack kaz 11:11:44 Kaz: Endo provided ideas about collaboration across industries. ARIB is working on metadata 11:12:05 ... Information from related SDOs and collaboration with media companies 11:13:46 Daihei: Publishing movies, prorgammes, manga, etc. Everything should be consumed on a smartphone. So many challenges, I divide them into the creator/supply side or the demand/user side and the service side 11:14:32 ... There's a gap. New things, WoT and digital twins. For the time being we may have to wait, we shoulnd't tolerate that 11:14:57 s/Information from related SDOs and collaboration with media companies/Getting information from related SDOs about their work on metadata and collaboration with media-related companies including publishers in addition to broadcasters would be great. And now, we should ask Daihei for opinions from Publishers' viewpoints./ 11:15:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:15:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 11:15:43 ... Content are generated and produced for a single purposed, movies, books for print, music. All those media formats are made to be enjoyed in a certain designed format 11:15:49 ... Read a book from beginning to end, watch a movie, but now we have opportunities where people may only use a short segment, based on searching for particular facts or knowledge 11:16:09 ... This may invite some media content that enhances what they're looking for 11:16:32 s/ARIB is/For example, ARIB is also/ 11:16:37 ... Also mash-up type uses, integrating parts of what they like 11:17:08 q+ 11:17:37 Daihei: [reads slide: Legacy linear organic growth vs Supply/Demand sides meeting disruptively] 11:17:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:17:44 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 11:18:45 i/Publishing movies/topic: Ideas from Publishers' viewpoints/ 11:19:20 q? 11:22:07 i/Publishing movies/Slides: @@3/ 11:22:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:22:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 11:22:34 Daihei: This is quite high level, idealistic. But in my experience from Japan, US, Europe across the media and publishing industry, when new media comes out you need to get the source rights owners view 11:23:50 ... There are existing stakeholders on each side, knowing SMPTE is looking at it is useful, someone should have an overall view 11:23:59 q? 11:24:22 topic: Wrap-up 11:24:34 q+ 11:25:18 Endo: To conclude, we have broadcasting and publishing use cases. Any suggestions for continuing the discussion and future plan? 11:25:23 ach kaz 11:25:28 ack kaz 11:25:55 s/ach kaz// 11:26:14 Kaz: Given the interest in the topic, could we bring this idea to MEIG and continue the discussion there, and survey SMPTE, ARIB, schema.org work, and consider the use cases more 11:26:15 q? 11:27:39 Endo: I agree, we do need more time to discuss 11:28:02 ... Also collaborate with other industries outside the media industry 11:28:03 ack igarashi 11:28:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:28:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 11:28:47 Igarashi: I agree to continue in MEIG. But we need to continue investigation, e.g., if SMPTE works on this. I'm not sure if it's a global issue or specific to Japan 11:28:55 q+ 11:28:55 ... I'd like to establish that before starting in MEIG 11:29:35 ... OTT services aren't in MEIG, which is why I suggest surveying them first 11:29:46 q? 11:29:50 ack k 11:29:51 q+ 11:30:29 Ohmata: We could make a CG to allow others who aren't members to participate 11:30:33 ack k 11:31:47 Pat: ARIB, ATSC and HbbTV, many are working on this challenge, seeing if there's a collective interest makes sense 11:31:47 ... Not all may be appropriate for W3C. Rights issue, SMPTE has a registry where you can tag what rights are available 11:32:25 ... It'll take many parties working together. I support bringing the broadcast community together 11:33:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:33:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 11:34:21 i/Pat:/Kaz: yes, creating a new CG is another possible option :)/ 11:34:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:34:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 11:34:43 Endo: I'm sorry I couldn't be with you today. Please continue the discussion, and join our next meeting. 11:34:49 [adjourned] 11:34:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:34:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz 11:35:37 shiestyle has joined #cross-industry-media-content 11:45:55 naomi has joined #cross-industry-media-content 11:48:04 shiestyle has joined #cross-industry-media-content