IRC log of cross-industry-media-content on 2023-09-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:46:23 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-irc
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Meeting: Facilitating media content distribution across industries
06:46:59 [Ian]
Chair: Hiroki Endo
06:46:59 [Ian]
Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/63
06:46:59 [Ian]
clear agenda
06:46:59 [Ian]
agenda+ Pick a scribe
06:46:59 [Ian]
agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
06:46:59 [Ian]
agenda+ Goal of this session
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agenda+ Discussion
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agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
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RRSAgent, make logs public
07:13:48 [Ian]
Meeting: Facilitating media content distribution across industries
07:13:48 [Ian]
Chair: Hiroki Endo
07:13:48 [Ian]
Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/63
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10:15:20 [Mizushima_]
present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
10:15:57 [kaz]
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10:16:12 [kaz]
meeting: Facilitating media content distribution across industries
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10:17:24 [nigel]
present+ Nigel_Megitt
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10:17:48 [cpn]
present+
10:17:53 [Bert]
RRSAgent, pointer?
10:17:53 [RRSAgent]
See https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-irc#T10-17-53
10:18:07 [Bert]
present+
10:18:09 [kaz]
present+
10:18:15 [kaz]
scribenick: kaz
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10:18:39 [kaz]
endo: Endo from NHK
10:18:55 [kaz]
... due to COVID-19 case, joining from Tokyo remotely
10:19:13 [cpn]
scribe+ cpn
10:19:30 [cpn]
Endo: Media content include TV programmes and news articles
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10:20:51 [igarashi]
present+ Tatsuya_Igarashi
10:22:01 [cpn]
... The reach of content is limited due to fragmentation of deliver methods or services and platforms
10:22:01 [cpn]
... Use cases for content distribution across industries, and hints for cooperation across industry
10:22:01 [Ege_]
present+
10:22:44 [ktoumura]
present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
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10:22:49 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
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present+
10:23:14 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
10:23:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
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10:23:22 [Daihei]
present+
10:24:50 [endo]
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10:24:50 [kaz]
i/Endo from/topic: Logistics/
10:24:50 [nigel]
Nigel Megitt, BBC, co-chair TTWG and ADCG
10:24:50 [cpn]
Chris Needham, BBC. Media WG co-chair, and MEIG co-chair
10:24:54 [cpn]
daihei: Daihei Shiohama, co-chair of Publishing BG
10:25:35 [igarashi]
Tatsuya Igarashi, Sony Group, co-chair of MEIG, and AB member.
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10:25:37 [atsushi]
Atsushi Shimono, W3C
10:25:46 [ktoumura]
Kunihiko Toumura, Hitachi
10:25:49 [shiestyle]
Shinya Takami: KADOKAWA (publisher in Japan), co-chair of Publishing Maintenance WG
10:26:26 [oyoshiba]
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10:26:26 [Daihei]
Daihei SHIOHAMA, Media Do International (eBook distribution in the US) co-chair of Publishing Business Group
10:27:00 [nhk-ryo]
Ryo Yasuoka, NHK
10:27:00 [ohmata]
Hisayuki OHMATA NHK
10:27:00 [kaz]
Kaz Ashimura, W3C
10:27:00 [Bert]
Self-intro: Bert Bos, W3C, on the I18N WG, Math WG and SDW WG, and W3C communications team.
10:27:00 [Ege_]
Ege Korkan, Siemens AG
10:27:39 [pat]
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10:27:59 [Mizushima_]
I am Tomoaki Mizushima from Internet Research Institute, Inc.
10:28:33 [pat]
I am Pat Griffis/Dolby Labs
10:28:33 [cpn]
Endo: In this session we distinguish between media and non-media insdustry
10:28:36 [oyoshiba]
Osamu Yoshiba from. KODANSHA, Publishing House in Japan
10:28:41 [cpn]
... media industry inludes broadcasting and OTT services and publishers
10:28:43 [tomikura]
I am Yukio Tomikura, from Kodansha, Japanese publishing company. I'm in charge of selling e-books
10:29:08 [cpn]
... NHK has proposed various use cases where media content can be used across industries
10:29:24 [kaz]
i/Endo:/@@@ Kaz will move Endo-san's words later/
10:29:39 [cpn]
... In previous TPAC sessions, 2022 a WoT breakout session, the need for common rules for media content metadata was noted
10:29:52 [kaz]
i/Endo: In this/topic: Focus of the session/
10:30:18 [cpn]
... So far, there have been effots on inter-industry collaboration, on media player functions, rights management technologies, controlling IoT devices, metadata vocabulaties
10:30:32 [kaz]
i/Pat G/Timo Kunkel, Dolby Labs/
10:30:35 [cpn]
... Best practices for media content metadata is not sufficiently shared
10:30:42 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
10:30:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
10:31:24 [cpn]
... We have two media industry presentations
10:31:24 [kaz]
i/I this session/Slides: @@@/
10:31:27 [cpn]
... The first is from broadcasting, the second from publishing
10:31:58 [cpn]
... We want to discuss four main topics: efforts for cooperation in the media industry, coorperation between media and other industries
10:32:10 [cpn]
... we welcome any Q&A
10:33:00 [cpn]
Topic: Use cases from the broadcast industry
10:34:03 [kaz]
present+ Pat, Timo, Ohmata, Yasuoka, Naomi, Atsushi, Shinya, Yukio
10:34:03 [cpn]
Ohmata: Current use cases and issues from the media industry in Japan
10:34:03 [cpn]
... from NHK and metadata providers, IPG and M Data
10:34:10 [cpn]
... Starting with current use cases and issues. Broadcast service was launched in Japan in 1953, and digital since 2000
10:34:31 [kaz]
present+ Hiroyuki_Endo
10:34:38 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
10:34:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
10:34:54 [cpn]
... Typical way to access TV programmes is from a programme guide. Thinking about the programme data, it's multiplexed into the brodcast side, then demuxed and presented to viewers as an EPG
10:35:13 [kaz]
i/In this session/Slides: @@@/
10:35:15 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
10:35:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
10:35:25 [cpn]
... The format of the data is a broadcast standard. In Japan, there's no platform operators for terrestrial
10:35:59 [cpn]
... All broadcasters now provide internet services. We've provided web pages for programmes and news since 2000, and catchup and live of TV programme services
10:36:25 [cpn]
... NHK provides content metadata to platforms. Other broadcasters also provide catch up programmes
10:36:50 [cpn]
... Conventionally broadcasters only had to deal with standard formats for broadcast, but APIs vary by platform, so the operational cost is too much
10:37:05 [cpn]
... Data exchange tools, and checking of data
10:37:50 [kaz]
present+ Mirja Kühlewind
10:37:50 [cpn]
... NHK issues, we're now renewing web pages to use schema.org to make it easier to find and link pages and programmes
10:37:53 [cpn]
... But operators aren't motivated to input the metadata
10:38:12 [cpn]
... By describing the data items necessary for all platforms, the size of the metadata is increased
10:38:58 [cpn]
... Use cases from metadata providers: TV programme and retail business, the media and non-media industry use case
10:39:37 [cpn]
... IPG is a metadata company which provides data from broadcasters, and add information to the metadata and organise related content
10:39:53 [cpn]
... Their vision is opportunities to reach content by maintaining the metadata
10:40:13 [cpn]
... When the user selects a programme, the services that can provide the program are presented
10:40:40 [cpn]
... To provide the service there's a deep link to the catchup video on each service
10:40:58 [cpn]
... When we search by programme name or actor in Google search, the metadata can be presented
10:41:20 [cpn]
... We use Google's knowledge panel format, to give more accurate information to viewers
10:42:15 [cpn]
... Issues include renumbering of continuous broadcast of episodes, different rules for structurnig VoD content varies by platform
10:42:47 [cpn]
... Another metadata company is M Data. They gather text data from all TV programs broadcast in Japan
10:43:45 [cpn]
... Two types of metadata: scene data, which station and time, and topic presented, what items were presented. Commercial data includes company name, URL of e-commerce site, price
10:44:25 [cpn]
... Broadcast has influence on daily life, so TV metadata has the potential to connect broadcast to other services
10:44:40 [cpn]
... Supermarkets can use TV metadata to promote sales
10:45:22 [cpn]
... There are issues, not easy to create metadata when the product in the TV program cannot be uniquely identified
10:45:40 [cpn]
... Mapping TV metadata to the data used in the retail industry isn't easy
10:45:52 [cpn]
... Now, retail industry tries to make common rules on the data formats
10:46:31 [cpn]
... To summaries, TV metadata must be created for each OTT platform, so it's neessary to discuss the design of metadata to coorerate across industries
10:46:47 [cpn]
... What to do to solve these issues? Align to common web standards?
10:47:02 [cpn]
... Active research area in NHK
10:47:21 [cpn]
Yasuoka: Proposed system from NHK R&D
10:47:42 [cpn]
... The content discovery system is a web based system for delivering TV programmes
10:47:52 [cpn]
... We created a prototype
10:47:59 [cpn]
... [shows demo video]
10:50:27 [cpn]
... We're also presenting use cases that connect to services other than broadcasting and OTT
10:51:46 [nigel]
scribe+ nigel
10:51:46 [cpn]
q+
10:52:06 [nigel]
cpn: Is the situation that you do not have a common metadata standard across all broadcasters
10:52:16 [nigel]
.. and service providers that works across all devices?
10:52:33 [nigel]
.. Which standards do you use if they exist? Are there standards that are not well adopted
10:52:37 [kaz]
q+
10:52:47 [nigel]
.. or are you trying to move from multiple competing standards to a harmonized approach?
10:52:49 [kaz]
ack c
10:53:06 [igarashi]
q+
10:53:27 [cpn]
Ohmata: There are broadcast standards, and the OTT service has many formats, so a minimum requirement is common metadata to connect services between broadcast and other services
10:53:44 [shiestyle]
ack kaz
10:54:23 [cpn]
Kaz: There are two levels of question: common or integrated metadata for broadcast purposes, then the next level is thinking about further development and integration of metadata for all media distribution related industries, not just broadcasting
10:55:05 [cpn]
... So which direction to go? Create an integrated standardised metadata, or think about how to reuse metadata from different industries
10:55:13 [cpn]
q?
10:55:22 [nigel]
q+ to ask if you are proposing a new standard or promoting adoption of an existing standard? Is there a protocol for pointing to broadcast content?
10:55:27 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
10:55:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
10:56:00 [kaz]
i/Current use cases and/Slides: @@2/
10:56:02 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
10:56:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
10:56:29 [cpn]
Endo: Our prototype for future use cases is based on schema.org. Other standards, i think the media industries shares the metadata for media content, and cooperate with other industries
10:56:35 [nigel]
q?
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10:57:03 [shiestyle]
ack igarashi
10:57:18 [cpn]
Igarashi: I'd like to clarify, you'd like to create a new metadate standard for OTT, because they don't accept broadcast standards?
10:57:22 [cpn]
Endo: Yes, I agree
10:57:24 [pat]
pat griffis in the queue
10:57:40 [nigel]
q+ pat
10:58:10 [cpn]
Endo: Existing industries would like to adapt another standard or spec, it's important to use existing standards where possible
10:58:39 [cpn]
... many standards or data catalogs, we'll contribute to those groups
10:59:04 [cpn]
Igarashi: Do you expect to have a new standard that's shared across the broadcasters?
11:00:13 [cpn]
Endo: Operators includes broadcasters and OTT providers, they have common issues, what industry collaboration does this need, we identified from interviews
11:00:25 [cpn]
q?
11:00:46 [shiestyle]
ack nigel
11:00:46 [Zakim]
nigel, you wanted to ask if you are proposing a new standard or promoting adoption of an existing standard? Is there a protocol for pointing to broadcast content?
11:01:21 [cpn]
Nigel: Are there already standards for the protocols for reaching the linked content. The video shows someone clicking on a programme, goes to a broadcast or OTT. Is this something that exists already as a standard?
11:02:02 [igarashi]
NHK is promoting scheme.org, is not it?
11:02:59 [kaz]
q+
11:03:16 [igarashi]
s/scheme/schema/
11:03:17 [cpn]
Endo: Existing standards are possible. We don't propose a new standard. We can share a minimal common vocabulary or best practices to describe the metadata
11:03:19 [ohmata]
Yes, NHK think schema.org is a better solution.
11:04:27 [cpn]
Endo: One example is TVs have seasons and episodes, these schema name each other, but a TV programme doesn't have such a structure in schema.org
11:04:51 [cpn]
... so which parameter is used by some operators in each company is decided by themselves
11:05:19 [kaz]
q?
11:05:29 [cpn]
... So my idea is we can share best practices
11:06:16 [shiestyle]
ack pat
11:06:51 [cpn]
Pat: With my SMPTE hat on, the issue of uniquely identifying content on a global scale is something SMPTE does already with studio content, and Netflix
11:07:34 [cpn]
... So I'd encourage you to bring it to SMPTE to get a solution not only for broadcast but also pre-production
11:07:41 [cpn]
... The metadata is complex. Hollywood movies have 300 versions, multiple languages, different cuts, etc
11:07:57 [cpn]
... So if we're having a system to identify content, it needs to allow for other forms of content
11:08:19 [cpn]
... Another use cases is user-generated content? How to tag that so that it can interoperate?
11:08:41 [cpn]
... The problem of identifying content could be a SMPTE work item, to get other broadcasters involved
11:08:47 [kaz]
q?
11:09:03 [cpn]
Daihei: I represent the media side of a publishing business
11:09:36 [cpn]
... The content has its own rules, they have to merge, but at the same time if SMPTE works on it, but the content side doesn't know
11:10:18 [cpn]
... On the media side we have difficulty on how to make them available, so some interface is needed
11:10:23 [shiestyle]
ack kaz
11:11:44 [cpn]
Kaz: Endo provided ideas about collaboration across industries. ARIB is working on metadata
11:12:05 [cpn]
... Information from related SDOs and collaboration with media companies
11:13:46 [cpn]
Daihei: Publishing movies, prorgammes, manga, etc. Everything should be consumed on a smartphone. So many challenges, I divide them into the creator/supply side or the demand/user side and the service side
11:14:32 [cpn]
... There's a gap. New things, WoT and digital twins. For the time being we may have to wait, we shoulnd't tolerate that
11:14:57 [kaz]
s/Information from related SDOs and collaboration with media companies/Getting information from related SDOs about their work on metadata and collaboration with media-related companies including publishers in addition to broadcasters would be great. And now, we should ask Daihei for opinions from Publishers' viewpoints./
11:15:05 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:15:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
11:15:43 [cpn]
... Content are generated and produced for a single purposed, movies, books for print, music. All those media formats are made to be enjoyed in a certain designed format
11:15:49 [cpn]
... Read a book from beginning to end, watch a movie, but now we have opportunities where people may only use a short segment, based on searching for particular facts or knowledge
11:16:09 [cpn]
... This may invite some media content that enhances what they're looking for
11:16:32 [kaz]
s/ARIB is/For example, ARIB is also/
11:16:37 [cpn]
... Also mash-up type uses, integrating parts of what they like
11:17:08 [kaz]
q+
11:17:37 [cpn]
Daihei: [reads slide: Legacy linear organic growth vs Supply/Demand sides meeting disruptively]
11:17:43 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:17:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
11:18:45 [kaz]
i/Publishing movies/topic: Ideas from Publishers' viewpoints/
11:19:20 [kaz]
q?
11:22:07 [kaz]
i/Publishing movies/Slides: @@3/
11:22:11 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:22:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
11:22:34 [cpn]
Daihei: This is quite high level, idealistic. But in my experience from Japan, US, Europe across the media and publishing industry, when new media comes out you need to get the source rights owners view
11:23:50 [cpn]
... There are existing stakeholders on each side, knowing SMPTE is looking at it is useful, someone should have an overall view
11:23:59 [kaz]
q?
11:24:22 [kaz]
topic: Wrap-up
11:24:34 [igarashi]
q+
11:25:18 [cpn]
Endo: To conclude, we have broadcasting and publishing use cases. Any suggestions for continuing the discussion and future plan?
11:25:23 [shiestyle]
ach kaz
11:25:28 [shiestyle]
ack kaz
11:25:55 [nigel]
s/ach kaz//
11:26:14 [cpn]
Kaz: Given the interest in the topic, could we bring this idea to MEIG and continue the discussion there, and survey SMPTE, ARIB, schema.org work, and consider the use cases more
11:26:15 [nigel]
q?
11:27:39 [cpn]
Endo: I agree, we do need more time to discuss
11:28:02 [cpn]
... Also collaborate with other industries outside the media industry
11:28:03 [shiestyle]
ack igarashi
11:28:21 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:28:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
11:28:47 [cpn]
Igarashi: I agree to continue in MEIG. But we need to continue investigation, e.g., if SMPTE works on this. I'm not sure if it's a global issue or specific to Japan
11:28:55 [kaz]
q+
11:28:55 [cpn]
... I'd like to establish that before starting in MEIG
11:29:35 [cpn]
... OTT services aren't in MEIG, which is why I suggest surveying them first
11:29:46 [kaz]
q?
11:29:50 [kaz]
ack k
11:29:51 [kaz]
q+
11:30:29 [cpn]
Ohmata: We could make a CG to allow others who aren't members to participate
11:30:33 [kaz]
ack k
11:31:47 [cpn]
Pat: ARIB, ATSC and HbbTV, many are working on this challenge, seeing if there's a collective interest makes sense
11:31:47 [cpn]
... Not all may be appropriate for W3C. Rights issue, SMPTE has a registry where you can tag what rights are available
11:32:25 [cpn]
... It'll take many parties working together. I support bringing the broadcast community together
11:33:53 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:33:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
11:34:21 [kaz]
i/Pat:/Kaz: yes, creating a new CG is another possible option :)/
11:34:25 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:34:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
11:34:43 [cpn]
Endo: I'm sorry I couldn't be with you today. Please continue the discussion, and join our next meeting.
11:34:49 [cpn]
[adjourned]
11:34:53 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:34:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-cross-industry-media-content-minutes.html kaz
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