13:37:44 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 13:37:48 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/07-i18n-irc 13:37:50 Zakim has joined #i18n 13:38:00 Meeting: Internationalization WG Teleconference 13:38:06 Chair: Addison Phillips 13:38:15 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/c5b143d1-0a5b-4adb-8d60-0f5f9bfe5a41/20230907T150000/ 13:38:15 clear agenda 13:38:15 agenda+ Agenda Review 13:38:15 agenda+ Action Items 13:38:17 agenda+ Info Share 13:38:19 agenda+ RADAR Review 13:38:21 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 13:38:24 agenda+ TPAC Planning 13:38:26 agenda+ WCAG 2.2 13:38:28 agenda+ RDF-star prep 13:38:30 agenda+ Verifiable Credentials localization 13:38:33 agenda+ AOB? 13:38:44 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minites', addison. Try /msg RRSAgent help 13:38:49 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 13:40:43 xfq has joined #i18n 13:46:55 xfq has joined #i18n 13:48:47 Najib has joined #i18n 13:55:36 present+ Addison 13:55:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 13:56:55 xfq has joined #i18n 13:57:39 atsushi has joined #i18n 13:58:30 present+ Atsushi 13:59:56 present+ Fuqiao 14:01:07 present+ Eemeli 14:01:57 present+ Richard 14:04:05 scribe: xfq 14:04:16 zakim, take up agendum 1 14:04:16 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:04:17 agenda? 14:04:32 JcK has joined #i18n 14:04:48 zakim, take up agendum 2 14:04:48 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:04:55 Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #41, #39, #36, #35, #33, #32, #18, #16, #15, #13, #12, #11, #10, #9, #8, #7, #5, #4 14:05:00 #41? 14:05:01 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/41 -> Action 41 propose new specdev text on strings for xml (on aphillips) due 2023-09-07 14:05:10 #39? 14:05:10 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/39 -> Action 39 develop best practice guidelines for name-like fields (on aphillips) due 2023-08-31 14:05:18 #36? 14:05:19 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/36 -> Action 36 follow up with murata-san about wcag status (on aphillips) due 2023-08-31 14:05:44 present+ JcK 14:06:00 #35? 14:06:01 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35 -> Action 35 make the edits of CSS #5478 (on fantasai) due 2023-08-30 14:06:10 #33? 14:06:12 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips) 14:06:43 addison: I've closed ~40 issues 14:06:53 ... I've been marking issues with needs-attention 14:07:11 ... we have ~100 issues marked 'close?' 14:07:19 ... making progress 14:07:25 #32? 14:07:25 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/32 -> Action 32 Approve the character markup PR (on fantasai) due 2023-08-17 14:07:31 #18? 14:07:32 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/18 -> Action 18 Have informal explanation sessions about counter style translations with csswg members (on frivoal, fantasai) 14:07:52 #16? 14:07:52 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/16 -> Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips) 14:08:05 #15? 14:08:05 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/15 -> Action 15 Get character styling into w3c stylesheet (on aphillips) 14:08:10 #13? 14:08:11 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/13 -> Action 13 Make sure generics are comfortable to read in the content language (on frivoal) 14:08:18 #12? 14:08:19 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12 -> Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues raised by google (on aphillips) 14:08:23 #11? 14:08:23 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/11 -> Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal) 14:08:29 #10? 14:08:30 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/10 -> Action 10 With florian triage richard's article into a list of potential generics (on fantasai) 14:08:37 #9? 14:08:38 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/9 -> Action 9 Follow up with ecma-402 on next steps and start tc39 discussion (on aphillips) 14:08:43 #8? 14:08:43 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8 -> Action 8 Create pr against canvas formatted text (on aphillips) 14:08:49 #7? 14:08:50 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) 14:09:09 #5 14:09:09 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/5 -> Action 5 Check into how to list questions at the top of a digest and/or improve lang enablement communications (on r12a) 14:09:25 #4 14:09:25 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a) 14:09:50 zakim, take up agendum 3 14:09:50 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:10:10 zakim, take up agendum 4 14:10:10 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:10:19 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1 14:10:41 addison: we have no new incoming requests 14:10:58 zakim, take up agendum 5 14:10:58 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:11:05 ... that's probably not suprising since there's a publishing moratorium and everyone is preparing for TPAC 14:11:06 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues 14:11:31 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1756 14:12:01 addison: I had a conversation with @@ about applying dirname to some input fields that don't currently have their name 14:12:05 ... telephone was one 14:12:11 ... and buttons 14:12:17 ... passwords were the only one left 14:12:41 ... RDF is still trying to define string again 14:13:11 ... Verifiable Credentials Data Model really don't want to use @language in @context 14:13:22 ... to set the default language in a JSON document 14:13:41 ... if everybody invents their own mechanism because they don't like @context 14:13:58 ... we end up with 12 different ways of specifying this document is in English 14:14:05 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Aneeds-attention 14:14:40 addison: if you look at the end of the link 14:14:48 ... you'll see that there are 20 issues 14:14:50 agenda? 14:15:03 zakim, take up agendum 6 14:15:03 agendum 6 -- TPAC Planning -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:15:11 ... r12a and xfq might want to have a look and go through these issues 14:15:18 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/wiki/2023-TPAC-Planning 14:15:37 addison: we now have a number of meetings 14:15:49 ... on Mon, we will meet with webapps in the afternoon 14:15:54 ... it's confirmed 14:16:12 ... on Tue, we will meet with RDF-star 14:16:15 ... and with APA 14:16:43 ... on Thursday we will meet with CSS at the end of morning 14:17:00 r12a: this is all great 14:17:21 ... it would be great if we could put some links in here to give some idea of what the topic of discussion would be 14:17:29 ... so that we can prep beforehand 14:17:34 ... is that possible? 14:17:40 addison: in some cases it is 14:18:08 ... like webapps and RDF-star 14:18:17 ... we have a lot of open issues with CSS 14:18:36 ... I'm going through and closing those as quickly as I can 14:19:22 r12a: I'm suprised it starts at 8:00 14:19:49 addison: I've changed the wiki page to 9 for now 14:20:08 https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/#schedule 14:20:33 r12a: this is the official schedule for TPAC 2023 14:20:41 ... it says group meetings from 9:30 every day 14:21:37 addison: I did not call out Wednesday 14:22:08 ... Eemeli has a breakout session on Wednesday 14:22:24 ... not that we're sponsoring it as a group, but it's i18n related 14:23:30 s/session/session on DOM Localization/ 14:23:46 agenda? 14:24:00 r12a: Monday is the biggest problem for me because we have a team event 14:24:12 ... Tuesday for me is not such a big problem 14:24:32 and on Monday people such as myself will need to register at 9am 14:24:40 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/wiki/2023-TPAC-Planning#proposed-css-joint-agenda 14:28:44 zakim, take up agendum 7 14:28:44 agendum 7 -- WCAG 2.2 -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:29:23 addison: has anybody else taken a look? 14:29:47 r12a: as a WG we're trying to unblock it 14:30:49 addison: @@backwrd compat issue@@ 14:31:11 r12a: plh was on vacation when he signed off the transition and he admits that he missed 14:31:24 ... that's a component of the problem 14:31:53 addison: it's a single point of failure 14:32:19 r12a: it has occurred to me that we're not closing a lot of stuff and yet people are flying through transitions 14:32:27 ... and we need to look more closely at that 14:33:46 addison: green color doesn't mean that we put that label 14:34:06 addison: I'm gonna schedule some time maybe on Monday morning 14:34:30 agenda? 14:34:41 https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/schedule.html#tuesday 14:34:45 xfq has joined #i18n 14:35:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/07-i18n-minutes.html xfq 14:36:33 zakim, take up agedum 8 14:36:33 I don't understand 'take up agedum 8', addison 14:36:41 zakim, take up agendum 8 14:36:41 agendum 8 -- RDF-star prep -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:37:11 addison: there are 2 things going on in that space 14:37:20 ... one is their attempts to define what a string is 14:37:32 ... a matter of Unicode terminology 14:37:55 ... the other thing is the need to add directional metadata to fields 14:39:11 ... I'll try to dig out the issues and put them in our agenda so that you can all be prepared 14:39:15 zakim, take up agendum 9 14:39:15 agendum 9 -- Verifiable Credentials localization -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:39:33 addison: VC is the other thing I want to bring up 14:39:56 ... they're trying to do the right things somewhat 14:40:07 ... although they use JSON-LD 14:40:32 ... they want to allow people to process the credentials using regular old JSON 14:41:01 ... regular JSON processor would not know how to apply natural language string 14:41:25 ... problem 2 is they're concerned that @@ 14:42:28 r12a: if there are only 2 strings would it work just to have the language and direction that associateed with those 2 strings? 14:42:34 addison: yes, it would 14:42:54 ... but they've been unwilling to encoding it for every iteration of name and description 14:43:17 ... there *is* a way to associate metadata with the string 14:43:31 ... but you can also just decode the string with no metadata 14:43:47 ... because presumably they're all in the same language 14:44:03 ... every other JSON-based format will have exactly the same set of problems 14:44:19 ... some of them won't even be JSON-LD processors at all 14:44:36 agenda? 14:44:53 zakim, take up agendum 10 14:44:53 agendum 10 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:45:49 addison: I will see some of you in Seville in a few days 14:46:51 JcK: I wish you all pleasant travels and a wonderful and relaxing and productive meeting 14:47:12 addison: save travels! 14:47:16 s/save/safe 14:47:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:48:50 zakim, who is here? 14:48:50 Present: Addison, Atsushi, Fuqiao, Eemeli, Richard, JcK 14:48:52 On IRC I see atsushi, Najib, Zakim, RRSAgent, addison, r12a, csarven, eemeli, gb, Rachael, alastairc, fantasai, BoKilgore, MojGraph, imlostlmao, gonzu_15, clafase, Github, 14:48:52 ... astearns, bigbluehat, hadleybeeman, agendabot, koji, Mek, cwilso, florian, plh, Bert, hsivonen 14:48:56 zakim, bye 14:48:56 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Atsushi, Fuqiao, Eemeli, Richard, JcK 14:48:56 Zakim has left #i18n 14:49:36 s/with @@/with AnneVK/ 14:49:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:50:35 s/@@backwrd compat issue@@/some groups claim that issues they ignored previously are now backwards compatibility/ 14:50:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:51:58 s/that @@/that @language should not be applied to non-language strings and feel that this is required by @context/ 14:52:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:52:14 xfq has joined #i18n