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14:50:53 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/08/24-pcg-a11y-irc
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14:51:32 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
14:51:32 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
14:52:00 <kersc> present+
14:52:30 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Feedback for refactoring the principles document of User experience guide for accessibility metadata.
14:52:53 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Any other business.
14:52:57 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:53:03 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
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14:58:53 <gpellegrino> present+
15:00:20 <gautier> present+
15:01:06 <gautier> scribe+
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15:01:23 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:01:23 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Feedback for refactoring the principles document of User experience guide for accessibility metadata. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:01:23 <Madeleine> present +
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15:02:13 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:02:17 <CharlesL> present+
15:02:25 <gautier> AvneeshSingh: we hope to receive more feedback on the rewriting od the display guide.
15:02:28 <Madeleine> present+
15:02:45 <AvneeshSingh> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/draft/principles/?updated
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15:04:00 <jamesY> present+
15:04:55 <tzviya> present+
15:04:57 <gautier> Ted Van Der Togt: I have a couple of things from KB (library of the netherlands. I feel it's too much about the info book page, the accessibility journey starts before, Is there a possibility to add guidance about filetrs and facets? The other think is pure audiobook, I would prefer see them well separated from ebooks. Also I would like a MARC technic document if some people from the library world could help.
15:05:10 <Chris_ED_> present+
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15:05:33 <Naomi_> present+
15:05:45 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:05:45 <Chris_ED_> q+
15:06:05 <gautier> Ted Van Der Togt: I work as a researcher for the KB. We have to do a lot about library services. Some people have met me before as I've been working at Dedicon.
15:06:09 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:07:31 <kersc> We have had people who are working on MARC join us on this call.
15:09:00 <gautier> AvneeshSingh: yes it's in our goals to have technics for MARC. But we have to prioritize work.
15:10:02 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:10:20 <gautier> gpellegrino: the filtering part is very important, but it's still not that simple to establish how to determine a facett. It's difficult to just say it's accessible or not, that's why we stopped there. If you have proposals we will add, them because yes it's strategic.
15:11:24 <gpellegrino> scribe+
15:11:44 <gpellegrino> gautier: the comment from Ted on audio I think is pertinent
15:11:57 <gpellegrino> ... first section was only about audio
15:12:18 <gpellegrino> ... we extended it with audio-synchronized
15:12:45 <gpellegrino> ... but I think it makes sense to move "pure-audio" in the general information
15:13:02 <gpellegrino> ... (right now we have a placeholder in the document)
15:13:38 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:13:53 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: yes, we'll work on the general information section
15:14:47 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/2571
15:15:08 <gpellegrino> q+
15:15:19 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:16:41 <gautier> gpellegrino: for the EAA (european accessibility act), they are exemptions (micro enterprise, disproportiante burden, substantial alteration).
15:17:43 <kersc> Will pure audio books be exempt because of fundemental alteration?
15:18:03 <jamesY> q+
15:18:09 <gpellegrino> q+
15:18:10 <gautier> gpellegrino: it's important for publishers to be able to indicate they are not accessible because of legal exemptions. ONIX started to add dedicated codes, the epub accessibility metadata had to propose a way. This is the case described in this issue.
15:18:56 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:19:53 <gautier> Ted Van Der Togt: even if a publisher is exempted, as a library we want to tell the user about accessibility, a simple book could be accessible event if the publisher is exempted. We want to make sure we can tell as much as possible, even in case of exemption. Concerned that making to easy to claim exemption may lead to less information.
15:20:23 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:20:30 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:20:34 <gautier> jamesY: i understood that the accessibility has to be reevaluated each 5 years.
15:22:31 <gautier> gpellegrino: the federation of european publisher's (FEP) also want this metadta for statistics. This information make sense in that way too. the FEP also have a task force about determining exemption limits and understand how they fits publishing business.
15:22:36 <gautier> q+
15:23:16 <gautier> AvneeshSingh: looking at James comment, we should open an issue to get more informations about it.
15:24:13 <gpellegrino> scribe+
15:24:16 <AvneeshSingh> ack gaut
15:25:13 <gpellegrino> gautier: for how the EAA is written it asks every publisher to to the best it can to make accessible publications
15:25:54 <gpellegrino> ... for what Ted told, there are some tools able to infer accessibility metadata (like readium go toolkit)
15:26:22 <gpellegrino> ... for sure we have to push publishers to do the best they can
15:26:32 <kersc> A publisher may have an exception, but they should not be exempt from inserting the accessibility metadata.
15:27:05 <gpellegrino> ... we see a lot of ebooks in France that are quite good, but have no metadata on accessibility
15:27:15 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:28:21 <Naomi_> q+
15:28:21 <gpellegrino> ... so first step is to remediate metadata
15:28:29 <gautier> kersc: we could have a fully accessible metadta + exemption metadata on the same book.
15:28:29 <CharlesL> q+
15:29:26 <gautier> q+
15:29:38 <CharlesL> q-
15:29:57 <gautier> kersc: accessmodesufficient auditory should be the trigger for audiobooks.
15:29:58 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:31:07 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:31:13 <gautier> Naomi_: small publishers, it's not only about lack of ressources to make accessible books, it's also lack of ressources to learn about it. there's a knowledge problem has an important part.
15:32:57 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:33:16 <AvneeshSingh> Have 3rd Party Certification on Main Accessibility Page #181: https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/181
15:34:44 <gpellegrino> q+
15:34:47 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:34:56 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:35:02 <gautier> CharlesL: we've been helping publishers make accessible books thru GCA certification. The information of certification should be up in the information section.
15:35:09 <jamesY> q+
15:35:46 <AvneeshSingh> ack james
15:35:46 <gautier> gpellegrino: position of LIA is we agree, at least in Italy users trust our work. We think it's important in the frontspice.
15:36:19 <gautier> jamesY: I agree as a publisher who has this certification, I want it displayed immediately.
15:36:20 <kersc> q+
15:36:28 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:36:44 <gautier> q+
15:36:48 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:36:54 <CharlesL> ack kersc
15:36:58 <CharlesL> ack gautier
15:37:04 <AvneeshSingh> ack guat
15:37:27 <gpellegrino> q+
15:38:09 <CharlesL> q+
15:40:15 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
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15:41:13 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:41:30 <gautier> gpellegrino: the choice of displaying stays up to the distributor.
15:42:09 <AvneeshSingh> q?
15:43:01 <gautier> gautier: this should be companioned by a related what certification is document, as there are only two private players on the field today.
15:43:21 <gautier> q+
15:43:34 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
15:44:04 <CharlesL> q+
15:44:27 <CharlesL> q-
15:45:19 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
15:45:19 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Any other business. -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
15:46:01 <gautier> AvneeshSingh: next call 28th of september (because TPAC in the meanwhile).
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15:46:59 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
15:47:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/24-pcg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
15:47:09 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public
15:48:05 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
15:48:05 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been kersc, AvneeshSingh, gpellegrino, gautier, CharlesL, Madeleine, jamesY, tzviya, Chris_ED_, Naomi_
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