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13:56:53 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/08/10-wcag2ict-irc
13:56:53 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:56:54 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), maryjom
13:56:58 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
13:56:58 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:57:04 <maryjom> chair: Mary Jo Mueller
13:57:09 <maryjom> meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:57:15 <maryjom> Agenda+ Announcements
13:57:28 <maryjom> Agenda+ Survey Results: Review draft updates to SC Problematic for Closed Functionality
13:57:42 <maryjom> agenda?
13:57:54 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
13:57:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
13:58:04 <LauraBMiller> LauraBMiller has joined #WCAG2ICT
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14:00:02 <Chuck> present+
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14:00:45 <bruce_bailey> present+
14:01:37 <Chuck> agenda?
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14:01:56 <olivia> present+
14:01:56 <LauraBMiller> scribe+LauraBMiller
14:01:58 <LauraBMiller> present+
14:02:05 <maryjom> present+
14:02:08 <mitch11> present+
14:02:10 <LauraBMiller> scribe+ LauraBMiller
14:02:20 <LauraBMiller> Zakim, next item
14:02:20 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
14:02:37 <ChrisLoiselle> present+
14:02:45 <Mike_Pluke> present+
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14:03:11 <LauraBMiller> Maryjom: making progress. CFC passed
14:03:22 <FernandaBonnin> present+
14:03:24 <LauraBMiller> Next step is to go to W3C director.
14:03:32 <Chuck> q+ to ask about the image issue raised
14:03:35 <Chuck> ack Ch
14:03:35 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to ask about the image issue raised
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14:04:58 <Devanshu> present+
14:05:08 <LauraBMiller> chuck: it would be beneficial to correct the image issue.
14:05:34 <bruce_bailey> q+
14:05:36 <LauraBMiller> Chuck: publish with the image issues because it doesn't impact the meaning of the document
14:05:46 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
14:05:51 <LauraBMiller> Bruce_bailey: would that mean adding a line of text in the document?
14:06:14 <LauraBMiller> chuck: trying not to edit the document. Would be an outside issue that we address elsewhere.
14:07:30 <bruce_bailey> i have no heartburn about FCPWD having some bugs
14:07:42 <LauraBMiller> chuck: will advance today.
14:07:59 <Bryan_Trogdon> Bryan_Trogdon has joined #wcag2ict
14:08:23 <LauraBMiller> Maryjom: WCAG 2.2 is on target?
14:08:47 <LauraBMiller> Chuck: one formal objection was raised. There is a plan laid out but there is nothing definite yet.
14:08:58 <Bryan_Trogdon> present+
14:09:19 <LauraBMiller> Maryjom: Must resolve Internationalization issue. Old issue. Not sure what they/we/you all will decide to do about that.
14:10:55 <LauraBMiller> maryjom: transition period when AGWG starts with new charter there are no members. Need members to be readded.
14:11:33 <LauraBMiller> Maryjom: Be on top of resubmitting
14:11:40 <Chuck> IE's will also need to re-apply
14:11:48 <bruce_bailey> q+
14:11:51 <maryjom> Reapply link: https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/ag/instructions/
14:11:58 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
14:11:58 <LauraBMiller> q+
14:12:16 <LauraBMiller> Bruce_Bailey: charter has to get renewed regardless of 2.2 getting published.
14:12:43 <maryjom> ack LauraBMiller
14:12:43 <Chuck> q+ to say one of the many moving parts and complications.
14:12:52 <LauraBMiller> LauraBMiller: what is the timing for readding
14:13:09 <LauraBMiller> Chuck: will go out soon. Has not gone out yet.
14:13:26 <Chuck> ack Ch
14:13:26 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to say one of the many moving parts and complications.
14:13:32 <maryjom> ack Chuck
14:14:27 <LauraBMiller> chuck: Many moving parts that impact the charter (if 2.2 is passed or not, determines if it's in the new charter).
14:15:08 <LauraBMiller> Maryjom: by the time the charter is put in place, you'll have a month.
14:15:34 <LauraBMiller> zakim, next item
14:15:34 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Survey Results: Review draft updates to SC Problematic for Closed Functionality -- taken up [from maryjom]
14:15:44 <LauraBMiller> TOPIC
14:15:53 <maryjom> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/wcag2ict-sc-problematic-for-closed/results
14:16:20 <LauraBMiller> TOPIC: 1.3.5 Identifying purpose
14:16:39 <LauraBMiller> Maryjom: working on identifying input purpose.
14:16:41 <maryjom> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/wcag2ict-sc-problematic-for-closed/results#xq9
14:18:41 <LauraBMiller> Mitch11: preferred the original version in survey.  The updated version adds "text labels need to be specific and be provided to the user in other modalities."
14:19:46 <LauraBMiller> Mitch11: withdraw my initial complaint but still believe that the initial version is better  because text labels are not mentioned.
14:20:23 <Mike_Pluke> q+
14:20:49 <LauraBMiller> Mitch11: I didn't realize text labels were an alternative to programmatic purpose.
14:20:49 <maryjom> ack Mike_Pluke
14:21:05 <LauraBMiller> Mike_Pluke: what other way of identifying input purpose would there be?
14:22:08 <LauraBMiller> Mitch11: closed systems can use HTML.
14:22:43 <LauraBMiller> Maryjom: if there is no programmatic way to identify purpose, you'd have to use text labels or do so in another way.
14:22:56 <LauraBMiller> Maryjom: We could make an edit to the updated version.
14:23:10 <maryjom> 1.3.5 Identify Input Purpose—Requires information in a programmatically determinable form; in the absence of programmatic capabilities, text labels need to be specific and be provided to the user in other modalities (e.g. auditory).
14:23:49 <LauraBMiller> maryjom: what do others think
14:23:57 <mitch11> q+
14:24:03 <maryjom> Ack mitch
14:24:24 <bruce_bailey> q+
14:25:03 <mitch11> q+
14:25:07 <bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#input-purposes
14:25:15 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
14:25:24 <bruce_bailey> Is there an analog in SW and documents?
14:25:25 <maryjom> ack mitch
14:25:44 <bruce_bailey> thank you mitch for clarification !
14:26:00 <Chuck> q+ to say Android does as well
14:26:13 <maryjom> ack Chuck
14:26:13 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to say Android does as well
14:26:17 <Chuck> ack Ch
14:27:02 <maryjom> Poll: Update 1.3.5 bullet as edited above? 1) Yes, 2) No, or 3) Something else
14:27:14 <olivia> 1
14:27:15 <mitch11> 1
14:27:16 <FernandaBonnin> 1
14:27:18 <Mike_Pluke> 1
14:27:18 <bruce_bailey> 1
14:27:20 <Bryan_Trogdon> 1
14:27:21 <Devanshu> 1
14:27:29 <ChrisLoiselle> 1
14:27:39 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: Update 1.3.5 bullet as edited above? 1) Yes, 2) No, or 3) Something else
14:28:26 <maryjom> s/? 1) Yes, 2) No, or 3) Something else/
14:28:39 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
14:28:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
14:29:03 <mitch11> +1
14:30:05 <Chuck> TOPIC:  1.4.2 Audio Control
14:30:37 <Chuck> scribe+ Chuck
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14:31:01 <bruce_bailey> scribe+ LauraBMiller_
14:33:47 <Chuck> q+
14:34:21 <LauraBMiller_> maryjom: results of survey include people wanting "Something else" and Maryjom provided suggested content that included a reference Non interfering audio.
14:34:35 <LauraBMiller_> maryjom: shouldn't apply it because there is an existing requirement.
14:35:12 <LauraBMiller_> maryjom: that conflicts.
14:35:12 <LauraBMiller_> Maryjom: Sam also provided feedback (grammatical).
14:35:12 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
14:35:44 <maryjom> ack Chuck
14:35:44 <Chuck> ack Ch
14:35:44 <LauraBMiller_> Maryjom: Mitch11 also provided feedback about the content "there is no AT", products can have built in AT
14:36:00 <LauraBMiller_> chuck: our charter and mandate is to build off the WCAG requirements not the EN requirements.
14:36:14 <LauraBMiller_> Chuck: if there is a conflict with EN that's not our problem.
14:36:33 <LauraBMiller_> Chuck: but we should be mindful of it because our mission is strictly WCAG related.
14:37:02 <maryjom> ack Mike_Pluke
14:37:30 <LauraBMiller_> Mike_Pluke: We wrote 5.3.1.10 before considering applying WCAG 2 ICT.
14:37:45 <LauraBMiller_> Mike_Pluke: what we had in mind was public walk up systems with speech output.
14:38:28 <LauraBMiller_> Mike_Pluke: This was independent of WCAG but I'm proposing a separate section on closed functionality to the EN discussion (for public access terminals).
14:39:19 <mitch11> q+
14:39:30 <LauraBMiller_> Maryjom: Satisfying 5.3.1.10 would satisfy WCAG criteria but the other way around is not the case.
14:39:38 <maryjom> ack mitch
14:40:24 <LauraBMiller_> Mitch11: Despite my proposal, I don't think we need to link off to other standards.
14:41:08 <LauraBMiller_> Mitch11: What prevents the criterium from being applied?
14:44:12 <maryjom> o	Poll: Which do you prefer? 1) Option 1-as proposed or 2) Option 2 – with Loïc’s edits 3) Option 3 – refer to EN’s requirement, 4) Remove bullet, or 5) Something else
14:44:29 <mitch11> 2
14:44:46 <bruce_bailey> 2
14:44:48 <FernandaBonnin> 2
14:44:50 <Mike_Pluke> Q+2
14:44:51 <LauraBMiller_> 2
14:44:56 <ChrisLoiselle> 2
14:44:59 <olivia> 2
14:45:05 <Mike_Pluke> 2
14:45:22 <bruce_bailey> ack 2
14:45:26 <maryjom> ack Mike_Pluke
14:46:10 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: Update 1.4.2 Audio Control bullet using Option 2 above
14:47:26 <LauraBMiller_> TOPIC 1.4.3 Contrast and 1.4.11
14:48:14 <bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/wcag2ict-sc-problematic-for-closed/results#xq11
14:52:34 <bruce_bailey> q+ for mitch' edit
14:52:47 <mitch11> q+
14:53:04 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
14:53:04 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to discuss mitch' edit
14:53:27 <ChrisLoiselle> ouch.
14:54:03 <maryjom> q?
14:54:08 <maryjom> ack mitch
14:54:18 <Mike_Pluke> q+
14:54:50 <maryjom> ack Mike_Pluke
14:55:09 <LauraBMiller_> Mike_Pluke: the reason we didn't put a contrast was the difficulty measuring it.
14:55:17 <bruce_bailey> U.S. regulatory landscape is in flux with DOJ NPRM
14:55:24 <maryjom> Poll: Which do you prefer? 1) Option 1 – as proposed, 2) Option 2 – with edits, 3) Option 3 – may not be possible to meet, or 4) Something else
14:55:29 <FernandaBonnin> 3
14:55:30 <olivia> 3
14:55:32 <Mike_Pluke> 3
14:55:33 <mitch11> 3
14:56:28 <maryjom> Poll: Which do you prefer? 1) Option 1 – as proposed, 2) Option 2 – with edits, 3) Option 3 – may not be possible to meet, 4) Option 4 - use option 3 and remove 508 reference, or 4) Something else
14:56:32 <mitch11> q+
14:56:36 <bruce_bailey> 3
14:56:40 <maryjom> ack mitch
14:56:49 <bruce_bailey> darn 4
14:57:06 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
14:57:08 <LauraBMiller_> Mitch11: referencing standards but not specifying which standards could be frustrating
14:57:17 <bruce_bailey> intro can mention other standards
14:57:27 <maryjom> Poll: Which do you prefer? 1) Option 1 – as proposed, 2) Option 2 – with edits, 3) Option 3 – may not be possible to meet, 4) Option 4 - use option 3 and remove reference to other standards, or 5) Something else
14:57:52 <Mike_Pluke> Q-
14:58:02 <mitch11> 4
14:58:03 <FernandaBonnin> 4
14:58:05 <Mike_Pluke> 4
14:58:09 <olivia> 4
14:58:47 <bruce_bailey> 4
14:58:49 <ChrisLoiselle> 4 , in that we'd remove reference.
14:58:56 <maryjom> Option 3 – may not be possible to meet, remove reference to EN 301 549: When the contrast of the content is determined by the hardware and not modifiable by the software author, it may not be possible to meet this Success Criterion.   NOTE Hardware requirements for contrast are out of scope for WCAG2ICT (and this Success Criterion).
14:59:10 <Chuck> Chris represents Oracle, but from AGWG Chair experience, I am a proponent of 4.
14:59:30 <maryjom> s/Option 3/Option 3 minus reference to other standards/
15:00:12 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: Update 1.4.3 and 1.4.11 bullets using text posted above
15:00:43 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
15:01:27 <LauraBMiller_>  (thanks Maryjom).