16:57:03 RRSAgent has joined #aria 16:57:07 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-aria-irc 16:57:07 RRSAgent, make logs Public 16:57:08 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), spectranaut_ 16:57:16 meeting: ARIA WG 16:57:34 mpaiva has joined #aria 16:57:50 Francis_Storr has joined #aria 16:58:04 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2023Jul/0007.html 16:58:04 clear agenda 16:58:05 agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://tinyurl.com/2d2j7ssd) 16:58:05 agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://tinyurl.com/2xky9pjp) 16:58:05 agenda+ [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates) 16:58:05 agenda+ [Clarification about prohibited acc name and title attribute](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1981) 16:58:08 agenda+ [Discussion tracking for ARIA Notification proposal](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1957) 16:58:08 Adam_Page has joined #aria 16:58:15 agenda+ [Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group](https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/aria/) ([View Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/aria/calendar/)) 16:58:18 chair: spectranaut_ 16:58:59 agenda? 16:58:59 remove item 6 17:00:30 present+ 17:01:18 jaunita_george has joined #aria 17:01:21 Present+ 17:01:33 present+ 17:01:51 Matt_King has joined #aria 17:02:25 present + 17:02:30 Jem has joined #aria 17:02:39 present+ 17:02:43 agenda? 17:02:44 present+ 17:03:17 present+ Daniel 17:03:44 scribe: Jemma 17:04:03 zakim, take up agenda item 1 17:04:03 'item\ 1' does not match any agenda item, Jem 17:04:12 zakim, next item 17:04:12 agendum 1 -- [New Issue Triage](https://tinyurl.com/2d2j7ssd) -- taken up [from agendabot] 17:04:13 scotto has joined #aria 17:04:20 present+ 17:04:21 Doug has joined #aria 17:04:46 CurtBellew has joined #aria 17:04:53 present+ 17:04:59 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1986 17:05:56 val: Mario's comment is about clarifying the language about the confusion. It sounds like a minor issue 17:06:21 scott: My PR will also clarify 1986 17:06:49 scott: only pending thing is Matt's comment 17:07:09 ... if you can just verify that, 1949, it would be great. 17:07:16 matt: I can do review during this call. 17:07:36 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1985 17:07:59 I have two related issues 1956 and 1970 17:08:06 Val: I see your comment, Scott. Do you have the comment to add? 17:10:13 scott's comment "though presently the spec is pretty clear that the expectation is there would be interactive elements within the application role container... maybe that should/could change? But even if it does, that might be for nothing if you have to add nested interactive elements to address all the things i mentioned above, anyway." 17:11:07 scott: if james Crag is in the meeting, he would say that there is nothing to prevent this. 17:11:30 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1984 17:12:01 curt: "The aria-selected state description seems to indicate that if one tab in a tablist is marked with aria-selected="true" and all other tabs have no aria-selected attribute then the tabs without aria-selected should return selected false. ...However in testing, browsers seem to return all of the tabs as selected. Simple sample code:" 17:12:48 benb has joined #aria 17:12:50 clarification to what i said "if james craig was in the meeting i would assume he might say we should not necessarily prevent this, as we dont want to prevent an author from doing something they might need to - which I would think is a good stance that we should consider, but not necessarily be in a rush to change, imo" 17:13:02 present+ 17:13:11 Siri has joined #aria 17:14:08 np. i just wanted to be clear since i was 'fake speaking' for someone else :) 17:14:18 matt: in that sentence it is vague which widget is referring to. 17:17:27 matt: we may need to look at the language of "tab" since some tabs can not be selected. In APG, we add aria selected false for unselected tab. 17:18:45 Val: since this is a triage session, I would like to set separate time. 17:19:16 matt: To resolve this, someone can see three different sections and clarify the intents. 17:19:25 curt: I will do that. 17:20:00 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1983 17:20:10 Why does role=none|presentation only prohibit aria-label and aria-labelledby #1983 17:20:45 scott's comment on the issue - "If i recall correctly, it wasn't really considered something to worry about since if a none/presentation element gets a global ARIA attribute, the presentational role is dropped in favor of the implicit or fallback role." 17:23:25 ..."it is a bit silly/confusing to say that naming them is prohibited, but all other global attributes are allowed/inherited... but also, if those attributes are used it negates the presentational role anyway... so in a very round about way, they're prohibited without saying as much." 17:24:14 matt: we would need to update the script so that it can update the allowed attribute. 17:24:24 Val: I can look into this. 17:24:58 zakim, next item 17:24:58 agendum 2 -- [New PR Triage](https://tinyurl.com/2xky9pjp) -- taken up [from agendabot] 17:25:17 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1982 17:25:50 Daniel will review this with Valerie. 17:26:00 zakim, next item 17:26:00 agendum 3 -- [Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates) -- taken up [from agendabot] 17:26:20 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/939 17:26:42 Val: We have a plan to discuss one hour before ARIA meeting. 17:27:12 Matt: Scheduling the meeting earlier will be great. 17:27:13 to schedule: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1950 17:27:23 to schedule: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1951 17:28:31 Val: We can invite Jaws and other screen developers to the aria-modal discussion 17:29:13 we need Aaron for aria-modal discussion 17:29:50 and screen reader developers for aria hidden 17:29:56 zakim, next item 17:29:56 agendum 4 -- [Clarification about prohibited acc name and title attribute](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1981) -- taken up [from agendabot] 17:30:37 val: we discussed and briefly triaged this. 17:31:03 Rahim has joined #aria 17:31:29 scotto: 17:33:00 we would need clarification for accessible name calculation and prohibited status 17:34:54 scotto: we dont have a good answer to the accessible name to the generic roles like div and so on 17:35:02 matt: I can say from my expereince 17:37:47 ... we definitely don't want accessible name to generic because it hinders to access the actual contents. The computation should ignore/throw out the title attriute 17:38:13 Matt:we don't support those naming for generic, do we? 17:38:43 scott: yes. 17:39:14 matt: if we have accessible name for strong, the screen reader user will be very confused which one is real accessible name. 17:39:56 scott:title is global attribute so it is tricky.. 17:41:06 matt: just putting a title to div and "suffacing it to the screen reader" - being the part of name computation - is really problematic 17:41:56 scott: I strongly agree with Matt and I can submit the PR to Html and AAM. 17:42:18 Cory: I agree with Scott. 17:43:00 ...SEO/marketing world tend to abuse those title attributes 17:43:12 zakim, next item 17:43:12 agendum 5 -- [Discussion tracking for ARIA Notification proposal](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1957) -- taken up [from agendabot] 17:45:48 doug: aria live region is one example of ARIA notification 17:46:23 ... goal is to take the string to pass out to the screen reader with simple javascript. 17:46:58 .. MS set up some example and API was introduced to Face to face meeting. 17:47:15 .. it has some problems... 17:47:39 https://github.com/w3c/aria/discussions/1958#discussioncomment-6223153 17:48:32 matt; conclusion we got last time is that aria - live is not working for braille and speech... 17:49:18 .. so that could be the priority 1 17:50:05 Mario: may it be problematic to mix with braile or speech? 17:51:00 matt: we will use braile role description for the braile notification. 17:52:32 Cory and Dough are talking about interconnnection among browser, screen reader and braille version of notifictaions. 17:52:58 there is synchronization need. 17:53:52 matt: interesting thing for speech mark up is simply affecting the processing speech version of string. may be separate flag for each mark up.... 17:54:23 Doug: AT may not be recognize in timely manner. Therefore, it should be the separate string or it should be priority1. 17:54:43 .. it is easier for braille to put it as the separate string. 17:56:17 doug: when we did survey this, it is related to "map" so the shortend word can be pronounced fully like Dr reads as "doctor" 17:56:38 rrsagent, make minutes 17:56:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-aria-minutes.html Jem 17:57:23 present+ Adam 17:57:28 present+ siri 17:57:44 present+ bryan 17:57:51 present+ alison 17:57:58 presnt+ francis 17:58:03 present+ jaunita 17:58:09 present+andrea 17:58:19 present+ benjamin 17:58:41 zakim, who is here? 17:58:41 Present: Adam_Page, jaunita_george, Francis_Storr, Jem, mpaiva, Daniel, scotto, CurtBellew, benb, siri, bryan, alison, andrea, benjamin 17:58:44 On IRC I see Rahim, Siri, benb, CurtBellew, Doug, scotto, Jem, Matt_King, jaunita_george, Adam_Page, Francis_Storr, mpaiva, RRSAgent, Zakim, spectranaut_, tzviya, github-bot, 17:58:44 ... bigbluehat, Josh_Soref, agendabot, sxau, sdd, clafase, MojGraph, \join_subline, ZoeBijl, timeless, JonathanNeal, ada, slightlyoff, gregwhitworth, chrishtr, niggerius, 17:58:48 ... sfloradon, imlostlmao, Jamie, seifeslimene, RenoirBoulanger, Laptop, gonzu_15, leobalter, n0nakamura, Mike5Matrix, jcraig, dmontalvo 17:59:11 q+ 18:00:07 Daniel: to say accessibility platform WG asked joint meeting to work together notification or pronunciation ... 18:00:39 .. the other working group can also help this dicussion. 18:01:10 rrsagent, make minutes. 18:01:10 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes.', Jem. Try /msg RRSAgent help 18:01:14 rrsagent, make minutes 18:01:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-aria-minutes.html Jem 18:01:30 bkardell_ has joined #aria 18:01:57 s/val/spectranaut_/