IRC log of coga on 2023-07-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:11:08 [RRSAgent]
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14:11:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:11:43 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:11:44 [Zakim]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:11:52 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:11:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Lisa
14:12:00 [Lisa]
14:12:05 [Lisa]
agenda+ sign up to scribe
14:12:10 [Lisa]
14:13:15 [Lisa]
agenda order is 8, 1, 2,7
14:13:23 [Lisa]
14:14:34 [Lisa]
14:52:01 [lisa]
lisa has joined #coga
15:00:37 [Jennie]
Jennie has joined #coga
15:00:50 [lisa]
no quarm
15:01:18 [lisa]
next item
15:01:28 [lisa]
close item 8
15:01:46 [lisa]
15:01:49 [abbey]
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15:02:26 [lisa]
topic: look at CTAUR document colaberation
15:04:19 [lisa]
15:06:03 [DavidSwallow]
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15:06:27 [DavidSwallow]
15:08:43 [Jennie]
15:09:00 [lisa]
srcibe: Jקממט
15:09:20 [Jennie]
scribe: Jennie
15:09:51 [Jennie]
(talking about the review of the CTAUR document)
15:10:06 [Jennie]
Lisa: I thought we would be adding user needs and requirements
15:10:20 [Jennie]
...I think we can use "COGA suggested user need 1"
15:10:27 [Jennie]
...And some of the comments are actually user needs
15:10:31 [Jennie]
...I started with general comments
15:10:38 [Jennie]
...Those aren't user requirements
15:10:48 [Jennie]
...They say you need to follow WCAG, but also do more
15:11:02 [Jennie]
...I suggested adding a recommendation for Making Content Usable
15:11:09 [Jennie]
...I took a few more examples from Jennie's comments
15:11:27 [Jennie]
...And I put them in as COGA suggested User Needs
15:11:34 [Jennie]
...This looks more like concrete suggestions
15:11:56 [Jennie]
...The Requirement is their format. So when I added a user need I added the requirements needed to meet them
15:12:27 [Jennie]
...Is it easier to have them in the comments, or in the "COGA suggested user need"?
15:13:21 [Jennie]
David: Will this need translating from inline comments into Github?
15:13:30 [Jennie]
Lisa: That is a conversation I had with Janina
15:13:44 [Jennie]
...They have someone who has volunteered to enter each one as a separate issue into Github
15:13:54 [Jennie]
...They have asked us to make our suggestions extremely concrete.
15:14:04 [Jennie]
...Because of this they want things like "add this user need here"
15:14:18 [Jennie]
...We have to make it clear for the person adding into Github
15:14:39 [Jennie]
David: I think the comments are easy to drop in. The suggestions might be a bit more difficult.
15:15:15 [Jennie]
Lisa: We thought that originally. When I started commenting, I could see we had threads
15:15:25 [Jennie]
...It will be hard to see what the final draft is, I think
15:15:53 [Jennie]
...We have had to take a step back - right now we are not concerned with what form we give it to APA in
15:16:08 [Jennie]
...Because we are still trying to make sure we have collected everybody's thoughts
15:16:20 [Jennie]
...So we need to see what is easier to do. Maybe we will move them back into comments
15:16:54 [Jennie]
...I think the first issue is collecting the input
15:17:01 [Jennie]
...We have comments in different documents, unfortunately
15:17:08 [Jennie]
...We will have to check that things have been added
15:17:11 [abbey]
15:17:14 [Jennie]
...So we will have to look through all the comments
15:20:03 [Jennie]
Jennie: my suggestion is breaking tasks down into small chunks per person, and being sure we follow up in a compressed timeline
15:21:04 [Jennie]
...I don't have a preference about inline vs comments, as long as we select one method and keep using it
15:21:11 [Jennie]
Abbey: I cannot see the document right now.
15:22:03 [Jennie]
Jennie: I can access Github at work
15:22:53 [Jennie]
...and my availability will be spotty over July in terms of participation in concentrated amounts
15:23:57 [lisa]
inline (1) or comment (2)
15:24:25 [Jennie]
Jennie: 0 - as long as it is consistent
15:24:40 [lisa]
15:24:47 [abbey]
15:24:50 [DavidSwallow]
15:25:15 [Jennie]
David: I think the comments help focus the issue. You can browse through them
15:25:30 [Jennie]
...You can go from comment to comment, and work to them
15:25:35 [Jennie]
...You can resolve them when they are done
15:25:41 [Jennie]
...Comments are a kind of unit
15:25:55 [Jennie]
...They are portable - they force you to condense your idea into a block of text
15:26:02 [Jennie]
...It might be hard to tease apart the inline comments
15:26:32 [Jennie]
Lisa: the problem is we got stuck getting to the phase of moving them into Github
15:26:45 [Jennie]
...some members couldn't use them
15:27:12 [Jennie]
...since we have 2 to 1, it goes towards the inline
15:27:23 [Jennie]
...We will have to try to make it easy to change into Github comments
15:28:09 [Jennie]
...Let's go through the things that they have, and see if we think we have the suggestions we need
15:28:32 [Jennie]
...Real-time co-editing - their user needs were mainly focused on screen reader users
15:28:46 [Jennie]
...until one about distractions
15:29:14 [Jennie]
...My feeling was that all of Making Content Usable would be useful - we put that at the beginning
15:29:33 [Jennie]
...I am thinking about the stuff we have learned to do in collaborative documents
15:29:47 [Jennie]
...One of the things we have learned is to put instructions at the top
15:29:52 [Jennie]
...People have said that is helpful
15:29:58 [Jennie]
...But I haven't always seen it
15:30:23 [Jennie]
...What problems with real-time editing have you come across?
15:30:32 [Jennie]
David: Just like this one.
15:31:44 [Jennie]
Lisa: I have opened one of the older documents, that contains comments from previous conversations
15:32:08 [Jennie]
...We have said not to do this in Content Usable, but I think it is a big deal for collaborative documents
15:32:54 [Jennie]
...the use of strange terms
15:33:26 [Jennie]
Jennie: I wonder if the terms are caused by the need for something unique, in terms of copyright
15:33:42 [Jennie]
David: maybe the mechanics?
15:33:53 [Jennie]
Lisa: Going back to the document we are reviewing...
15:34:07 [Jennie]
...It divides it into sections
15:34:21 [Jennie]
...Should there be a general section? Or is that what was in section 1.3 and 2?
15:34:28 [Jennie]
David: Do you mean about how to do?
15:35:22 [Jennie]
Lisa: I will put in the document within section 2: COGA suggestion - common pitfalls
15:35:32 [Jennie]
...(kept drafting using suggesting mode in the document)
15:37:26 [Jennie]
David: Can we preface it with something like "Collaborative tools use processes that are not as a familiar as....they have a set of unique mechanics"
15:37:35 [Jennie]
Lisa: (drafts based on this into the document)
15:38:02 [Jennie]
David: ties it to collaborative tools
15:38:13 [Jennie]
Lisa: (continues drafting in the document)
15:39:20 [Jennie]
...I think this area needs a bit of work
15:39:25 [Jennie]
David: This is a good start
15:39:33 [Jennie]
...To present the interactions clearly
15:39:49 [Jennie]
Lisa: I think someone said previously they needed the search
15:39:59 [Jennie]
...Like when things are somewhere, but you don't know where
15:41:00 [Jennie]
Jennie: there can be different permissions/capabilities of different searches
15:41:10 [Jennie]
...It would be important to expose this to users
15:41:26 [Jennie]
Lisa: Knowing how it works - using ands and ors
15:41:31 [Jennie]
...this is important to know
15:41:52 [Jennie]
...For some, if something is in quotes, that can have a different use case
15:42:34 [Jennie]
...Sometimes you can be inundated with terms
15:43:02 [Jennie]
David: Is it specific to collaborative tools? Or is it more general?
15:43:13 [Jennie]
Lisa: We are listing common pitfalls that we know about
15:43:20 [Jennie]
...Not limited to specific areas
15:44:05 [Jennie]
Jennie: I am wondering if we need a section called provide help
15:44:15 [Jennie]
...And then specifics of using search could be under that
15:44:25 [Jennie]
David: yes, these are the mechanics of using the tool
15:44:35 [Jennie]
Lisa: Then we can add some things under the help
15:44:49 [Jennie]
...(goes back to looking through Issues using W3C Tools and Processes
15:44:56 [Jennie]
15:45:29 [Jennie]
...reading from one commenter saying it is hard to have to learn a new way of thinking to do something like edit
15:45:40 [Jennie]
...(goes back to the document we are editing)
15:46:50 [Jennie]
David: maybe expose common features?
15:47:01 [Jennie]
Lisa: I have that here in the COGA suggestion - common pitfalls
15:47:24 [Jennie]
...(continues adding into the draft)
15:49:41 [Jennie]
Jennie: one of the comments we have is about adding a glossary. Maybe we can add it into the document as suggested text, then resolve that comment?
15:50:03 [Jennie]
Lisa: (adds it in to the document)
15:50:40 [Jennie]
15:52:40 [Jennie]
Jennie: thank you. Making sure we add information into the document with suggested text, then resolving the comments will help ensure we are
15:52:56 [Jennie]
...all working within this document the same way
15:53:29 [Jennie]
Lisa: (added in the comment about adding information about what is out of scope in the document, then resolved the comment)
15:54:17 [Jennie]
...(continued working through the comments, moving them into the suggested language within the document/inline, then resolving the comments)
15:57:09 [Jennie]
(Lisa continued going through the comments, pasting them inline, then resolving the comments)
15:58:23 [Jennie]
Lisa: Do we put in something like "add topic, or make sure the topic is clear"?
15:58:39 [Jennie]
...(drafted into the document in section 3)
15:59:36 [Jennie]
...We are not talking to the document authors, we are talking to those making the platforms
15:59:52 [Jennie]
...We know that multi-step processes are difficult
16:00:03 [Jennie]
...Having a link that automatically opens the read me file
16:00:07 [Jennie]
...It will open
16:00:13 [Jennie]
...You can write your instructions
16:00:25 [Jennie]
...Or have a place to add instructions for your reviewers
16:00:32 [Jennie]
David: Are you thinking of a specific platform?
16:00:41 [Jennie]
Lisa: we sometimes put read me files in
16:01:18 [lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:01:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate lisa