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13:52:11 <tzviya> Meeting: PWE
13:52:42 <tzviya> Chairs: Tzviya, Wendy
13:52:42 <tzviya> Date: 2023-06-06
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13:56:56 <dbooth> rrsagent, make logs public
13:58:48 <tzviya> present+
13:59:27 <dbooth> present+
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14:02:28 <wendyreid> present+
14:02:36 <dbooth> I can scribe
14:02:39 <naomi_> present+
14:02:49 <dbooth> topic: Onboarding
14:02:59 <tzviya> present+ elena_lape
14:04:00 <dbooth> topic: Introductions
14:04:28 <dbooth> elena: AC rep, did dev relations strategy.  Founder of ____.
14:04:45 <dbooth> naomi: W3c member relations
14:04:53 <tzviya> s/____/Holopin
14:05:34 <dbooth> chris: Google AC rep, AB
14:05:53 <dbooth> dbooth: Healthcare and life sci and semantic web, 20 years W3C involvmement
14:05:55 <cwilso> present+
14:05:57 <dbooth> Topic: Onboarding
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14:07:09 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13AX-NqEjzHSTDShquFXw7IiN2UYFvPRX/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102015853974655958701&rtpof=true&sd=true
14:07:22 <dbooth> elena slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13AX-NqEjzHSTDShquFXw7IiN2UYFvPRX/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102015853974655958701&rtpof=true&sd=true
14:07:52 <dbooth> elena: when someone just joined W3C, what next?
14:08:11 <dbooth> ... Common questions: Where to find what I shoudl know about?
14:08:26 <dbooth> ... How to use IRC?
14:08:54 <dbooth> ... Whom to ask for support/guidance?
14:09:06 <dbooth> ... How do i ask them?
14:09:15 <dbooth> ... What do I ask them?
14:09:21 <dbooth> ... Sometimes don't know what to ask.
14:09:27 <dbooth> (slide 2)
14:09:44 <dbooth> elena: Where to find things I should know about?
14:09:45 <cwilso> slides in archive: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2023Jun/att-0080/PWE_6_June.pptx.pdf
14:10:03 <dbooth> ... Can solve this by an automated chcklist
14:10:45 <dbooth> ... Rotating buddy system (see donut bot)
14:11:01 <dbooth> q+ to say I love the buddy system idea!
14:11:32 <dbooth> elena: We used an onboarding app at github
14:12:16 <dbooth> ... Each time a new partner joins, then get a github repo that contains context and background and a chklist that they need to complete.
14:12:34 <dbooth> (skide 3)
14:12:48 <dbooth> s/skide/slide/
14:13:32 <wendyreid> s/chklist/checklist/
14:14:22 <dbooth> elena: Template gives background on holo-program an other things
14:14:34 <dbooth> ... e.g. "Please read this article..."
14:14:52 <dbooth> ... Try to keep it from feeling overwhelming.
14:15:29 <dbooth> ... Define the next steps, set expectations, PR strategy
14:15:37 <dbooth> ... We can borrow ideas from this for W3C
14:15:53 <dbooth> ... We communicate with issues, that are also templated.
14:16:18 <dbooth> ... Each time the partner has a question or want to speak to the team, they create a new issue.
14:16:55 <dbooth> ... Point is to streamline the onboarding.  Make clear to the person what to read and do.
14:17:09 <dbooth> ... Keep them on track.  Onboarding should be easy.
14:17:43 <dbooth> ... Gives a permanent record of how it went.
14:17:52 <dbooth> ... Can continusously improve the process.
14:18:12 <dbooth> ... Would be cool for W3C.  Scales to about 500-600 relationships.
14:18:21 <tzviya> q?
14:18:24 <tzviya> ack db
14:18:24 <Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to say I love the buddy system idea!
14:18:27 <wendyreid> ack dbooth
14:18:30 <naomi_> q+
14:18:35 <tzviya> q+ to suggest that this would be useful for GH for CGs
14:18:42 <wendyreid> dbooth: This looks great, and wonderfully thought out
14:18:57 <dbooth> dbooth: Looks wonderful!   Very smart.  And love the buddy system idea.
14:19:47 <dbooth> elena: Get to build more 1:1 relatinoships.  The more people you are exposed to, the higher the chance of successful onboarding.
14:19:48 <tzviya> ack naomi_
14:20:18 <dbooth> naomi: When holopin joined W3C, there was no onboarding.  Right?
14:20:52 <dbooth> ... W3C normally has an onboarding call w new members, to guide them.  There's also a "get help" on the home page.
14:20:59 <dbooth> ... But W3C did not explain these things to you, sorry!
14:21:12 <dbooth> ... Maybe result of bad timing.
14:21:44 <dbooth> ... Holopin's tool, to track onboarding history?
14:22:25 <dbooth> elena: Yes, github.  Each time a partner joins, you get an individual repo.  You can set it to get notifications of each new issue.  In that sense, yet.
14:22:36 <dbooth> ... But if you have 2k memebers, its hard to have those conversations.
14:22:54 <dbooth> ... You can go back and look at individual issues.
14:23:34 <dbooth> noami: Is onboarding home alone insufficient?
14:24:02 <dbooth> elena: There's a list of resources, and the onboarding call.  Main problem: new members don't know what they don't know.
14:24:24 <dbooth> ... A small checklist thatare  easy to do and understand.
14:24:44 <dbooth> ... From there, if you want to learn more, then you can go and ask for more info.
14:24:48 <wendyreid> q+
14:24:50 <dbooth> (slide 9)
14:25:11 <dbooth> elena: Goal of onboarding is to spark new questions, not answer any possible queestions.
14:25:12 <tzviya> ack me
14:25:12 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to suggest that this would be useful for GH for CGs
14:25:40 <dbooth> tzviya: Could be useful more for CG , but some templates could be valuable for individuals.
14:26:06 <dbooth> ... W3C doesn't tend to create repos for individuals.  I love the checklist idea, and spark more questions for individuals.
14:26:29 <dbooth> ... Re "Is the onboarding call enough?"  No.  It's one call.  You're flooded w info.
14:26:46 <dbooth> ... Important is not just a relationship w team, but w other members.
14:26:51 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
14:27:45 <dbooth> wendy: Ditto.  Love this system.  When I first joined, i was told to read the guide.  Dry, not very intuitive.  When joining W3C, you also join a WG, that has individual considerations too.
14:27:56 <dbooth> ... Joining your CG too.
14:28:37 <dbooth> ... What's it like to join afresh?  Would be good to do a review of what it's like joining W3C?  WG? CG?  Can we distill it into a checklist or activity easily followed?  Not necessarily a repo.
14:29:02 <dbooth> elena: Important that the checklist is very short.  Like the "hello world" of any prog language.
14:29:30 <dbooth> tzviya: Like "create a w3c account ... success!"
14:29:49 <dbooth> wendy: Lots of video grames introduce new skills is one step at a time.
14:30:21 <dbooth> ... Something to consider.  Can we intro things at the most appropriate time, to help it sink in?
14:30:33 <dbooth> ... 15 mintues before the first mtg, show them how to join IRC.
14:30:53 <dbooth> (slide 5)
14:31:27 <cwilso> q+
14:32:00 <dbooth> elena: IRC is really useful.  Making/installing a client should be part of the onboarding.   It's not as popular as it once was, and people have strong prefs for discord or slack.  But could frame it as "one of the cool kids",  could hlep.
14:32:20 <dbooth> ... To get people to explore IRC further, could be a cool bot for that.
14:32:47 <dbooth> ... There's a company that does slack bot for emplyee engagement, called Donut.
14:33:24 <dbooth> ... One feature is auto coffee chat (opt-in).  Every two weeks it matches w a different person in the org.
14:33:42 <dbooth> ... Some could be w W3C team, some w other members.
14:34:05 <dbooth> ... This could also be built out for IRC.  Helps intro people to IRC and meet others.
14:34:17 <tzviya> ack cw
14:34:18 <dbooth> .... And a bot is very useful for checklists
14:34:34 <cwilso> https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/IRC.md
14:34:37 <dbooth> chris: When we started up the immersive Web WG, and I co-chaired it.
14:34:57 <dbooth> ... I write the Idiots guide to IRC.  Peole weren't queueing at all.
14:36:15 <dbooth> ... Current serious problem: lost a singular culture.  Now starting TPAC prep.  one theme in feedback: every group had a different way of doing things.  Each group using a different set of tools, eg, queuing in a doc vs IRC.  Need a consistent set across groups.
14:36:16 <tzviya> q+ to note the number of newbie guides
14:36:25 <dbooth> ... Hard to onboard if you cannot point them at a consistent set of tools.
14:36:46 <dbooth> tzviya: We have links to 3 newbie guides.  That's a problem!  Some out of date.
14:37:21 <dbooth> ... Used to attend new member mtgs.  Found that nobody reads the doc.  Uxer ex[perience at irc.w3.org is awful.
14:37:48 <dbooth> ... Letting people know that those clients esist is importnt.  Need to let people in on the sequence of IRC.
14:38:01 <dbooth> ... Once [peope know about /me, you're one of the cool kids.
14:38:06 <dbooth> ... Private messaging too.
14:38:23 <dbooth> ... And what excites people, "Zakim, what color is your bike shed?"
14:38:34 <dbooth> ... That's where onboarding can be extraordinarily useful.
14:38:55 <tzviya> q?
14:38:58 <naomi_> q+
14:38:58 <tzviya> ack me
14:38:59 <cwilso> Zakim, what color is your bikeshed?
14:39:00 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to note the number of newbie guides
14:39:00 <Zakim> I think Rose pink
14:39:00 <dbooth> ... We have docs and links to clients, and Chris wrote useful tidbits, like how to unqueue.
14:39:03 <dbooth> q_+
14:39:06 <dbooth> q+
14:39:14 <tzviya> ack naomi_
14:39:17 <dbooth> wendy: Easter eggs make it fun
14:39:34 <dbooth> naomi: Have to keep rewarding info.
14:39:58 <dbooth> ... Each group has its own onboarding page, more detailed.  Do we want one templated onbaroding page?
14:40:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-pwe-minutes.html Ralph
14:40:17 <tzviya> s/rewarding info/onboarding info up to date
14:40:38 <dbooth> elena: Ideally a template for all, but don't want to write more.  Want to write less.  Ideal: 5 bullets.
14:40:56 <dbooth> ... They'll actually read that, vs having to go through links and rewatch workshops.
14:41:23 <dbooth> ... Another idea: to get people to read things, send them slides not docs.  People assume it's a summary already.
14:41:58 <dbooth> ... Sharing info in a new format, rather than just a link.  When you join, people are linking things to you, and docs can be wordy.
14:42:00 <tzviya> q?
14:42:03 <tzviya> ack dbooth
14:42:37 <wendyreid> q+
14:42:41 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
14:43:05 <naomi_> q+
14:43:14 <dbooth> dbooth: Worthwhile Automation depends on volume needed.  But love the buddy system idea!
14:43:51 <tzviya> q+ to say that buddies can be for all members
14:43:53 <dbooth> wendy: Good way  to understand the current process: figure out the user journey.  When someone joins, what happens?  Where are the pain points?  Multiple solutions
14:44:16 <tzviya> ack naomi_
14:44:16 <dbooth> ... Problem is multifaceted.
14:44:43 <dbooth> naomi: Buddy system is available for AC reps, new to AC.  Could we do this year round?
14:45:06 <dbooth> elena: Yes!   Met w Alan the night before.  Really useful.
14:45:43 <dbooth> ... Especially the rotating aspect.  You get an email intro.  Relly helps.  Every group has a different way of working.
14:46:01 <dbooth> ... Fostering conversations gets them to share best practices.
14:46:32 <naomi_> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/11
14:46:36 <dbooth> naomi: In 2020, Daniel suggested a mentorship program in the TAG.
14:46:59 <dbooth> ... Global diversity site is no longer visible.
14:47:14 <tzviya> ack me
14:47:14 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to say that buddies can be for all members
14:47:20 <dbooth> ... Mentorship could be a rewarding program.  "Mentor" instead of "buddy"
14:48:10 <dbooth> tzviya: Lots of those programs faltered.  Depended on matching people up.  For AC, matched w someone on the team, but depended on the team member's time available at the mtg.
14:48:24 <dbooth> ... But mine was Karen, and was very busy.
14:48:37 <naomi_> q+
14:48:49 <dbooth> ... Proposal here is for random matching.  Could think of this for people who joined since COVID,.
14:49:06 <dbooth> ... If you've been w W3C 5+ years you can be on the other side of being a buddy.
14:49:26 <dbooth> ... Might not be bad if I were buddies w Pete Snider, whose name I know but never met.
14:49:44 <dbooth> elena: Still value in random matching.  Need to experiment to find out what works.
14:50:06 <tzviya> s/I know but never met/I never work with
14:50:13 <dbooth> .. Start small.  Even if a new member is matched w someone recently, ther'es still value.  They don't know things together.
14:50:44 <tzviya> ack naomi_
14:50:52 <dbooth> ... differnet benefits to both.
14:51:13 <dbooth> naomi: Possible for a member to be a buddy?  What about a reward for being a buddy?
14:51:59 <dbooth> elena: We can try without reward.  If we're struggling to get people to sign up, we can try branding reward.  Cool to be a W3C Mentor.
14:52:32 <dbooth> q+ to say it makes a big impact if someone reaches out to a new member
14:52:48 <dbooth> naomi: Could ask AB to be buddies?  They're very experienced.
14:52:58 <cwilso> q+
14:53:02 <dbooth> tzviya: Possible, should not restrict to AB.
14:53:11 <tzviya> ack dbooth
14:53:11 <Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to say it makes a big impact if someone reaches out to a new member
14:53:46 <tzviya> ack cw
14:53:46 <wendyreid> +1
14:54:01 <dbooth> dbooth: it makes a big impact if someone reaches out to a new member
14:54:07 <naomi_> +1 dbooth, making new AC Rep feeling welcomed
14:54:50 <Ralph> [having a library of materials for mentors/buddies to use will help]
14:54:58 <dbooth> chris: Some might not have bandwidth.   Need a considtent pool.  In Chrome deve, We have a pool of people who can be spec buddies
14:55:16 <dbooth> ... There are a bunch of people who could do this,  Could be amazingly effective.
14:55:29 <wendyreid> q+
14:55:31 <dbooth> tzviya: Next steps?  Trial probram?
14:55:48 <cwilso> s/probram/program
14:56:10 <dbooth> elena: The more questions are asked, the more it makes people feel comfortable asking.
14:56:28 <dbooth> ... Review of existing onboarding process would be a good place to start.
14:56:44 <dbooth> ... During the last member call, before the election, I brought teammates to the call.
14:57:25 <dbooth> ... We had a slack discussion "how do I queue a question?  Who is this person?"  That was a good exercise to see what people don't know and what knowledge i acquired by hanging around.
14:58:10 <dbooth> ... Review exisitng onboarding process.   Re buddy system, regardless of how the matching is done, we need to experiment w a small group.  Maybe randomly picking 50 and aking about their interest.
14:58:21 <dbooth> ... That will also help guage the interest in it.
14:58:23 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
14:58:57 <dbooth> wendy: Before dive in on implementation, need to understand the situation first.  Would be great if naomi could help map the current onboarding process.
14:59:12 <dbooth> ... Then we can address gaps.
14:59:45 <dbooth> tzviya: Wendy, elena, naomi and I can have a followoup conversation.  This is within the work that PWE does.
15:00:31 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
15:00:37 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:00:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-pwe-minutes.html dbooth
15:03:32 <dbooth> present+ Ralph_Swick
15:06:41 <dbooth> s/Worthwhile Automation/The amount of automation worth implementing/
15:07:19 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:07:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-pwe-minutes.html dbooth
15:08:01 <dbooth> s/considtent/consistent/
15:09:47 <dbooth> s/and aking/and asking/
15:11:07 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-pwe-minutes.html dbooth
15:30:05 <naomi> naomi has joined #pwe
17:27:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwe
18:35:58 <Ralph> i/naomi: Have to keep rewarding/[Ralph arrives]
18:36:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-pwe-minutes.html Ralph
18:37:35 <Ralph> i/naomi: Have to keep onboarding/[Ralph arrives]
18:37:52 <Ralph> s|i/naomi: Have to keep rewarding/[Ralph arrives]||
18:37:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-pwe-minutes.html Ralph