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14:11:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:11:52 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:12:00 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:12:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/05-coga-minutes.html Lisa
14:12:31 <Lisa> scribe: Rain
14:13:00 <Lisa>  agenda+ updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.ka7r1m4q5vkc
14:13:21 <Lisa>  agenda+ Structure sub group
14:15:16 <Lisa> agenda+ CTAUR (accessible collaborative documents) - Updates and next steps. comments so far at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CJhBYRI-zk2rl_mohHZ63xAGZxzpDMxhHhXT66bjFBI/edit#heading=h.k68hk35zpgfq
14:16:12 <Lisa> agenda+ Community feedback (if time)
14:17:01 <Lisa> regrets+ E.A., Eric, Becca
14:53:58 <Lisa> agenda?
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14:58:57 <Rain> present+
14:58:59 <Rain> agenda?
14:59:07 <Rain> scribe?
14:59:15 <Lisa> q?
14:59:23 <Rain> scribe: Rain
14:59:25 <Lisa> scribe+ rain
15:02:29 <Lisa> Zoom ID change. Please use the link on the call page.
15:02:39 <Lisa> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_coga
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15:04:24 <Lisa> next item
15:04:25 <DavidSwallow> present+
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15:04:50 <Rain> Lisa: we are at quorum, so going over actions and items briefly
15:05:04 <Lisa> close item 1
15:05:12 <Lisa> next item
15:05:19 <Rain> Lisa: structure subgroup
15:05:36 <Lisa> scribe rain , lisa
15:06:15 <Rain> Structure proposal overview document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KHWpKAWOb6p7r-WdrdDUIqFB3BCVnLjRYVcEBM88hPQ/edit#
15:06:19 <Lisa> done a card sort with 4 catagories and outine with 4 tag catagories draft
15:06:39 <Lisa> rain talking us though the doc
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15:09:45 <Lisa> Review and comment on the proposed hierarchy before July 6
15:10:47 <Lisa> Q=
15:10:50 <Lisa> q+
15:10:54 <kirkwood> present+
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15:12:13 <julierawe> present+
15:13:48 <Rain> Lisa: noting that we need to make sure to bring to the task force for review (wll be just after July 6
15:14:01 <Rain> ... also asking that we make the interactive version an editors draft
15:15:00 <Rain> ... talk with Roy about what is possible for this and update accordingly
15:15:11 <Lisa> id ont know if an interactive version can be an editors draft
15:15:16 <Lisa> but we can do both
15:16:42 <Lisa> https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/quickref/
15:18:40 <Lisa> and editers version on githab
15:19:10 <Lisa> q+ to say the interactive version do not need the first parts of the stucture
15:21:39 <Rain> Lisa: thinks we need two outlines, one for the general version and one for the interactive version
15:22:10 <Rain> ... thinks that we need to move the help information into the background
15:22:24 <Rain> ... also need to think about what we've pulled out
15:23:38 <Rain> Rain: we had decided to put personas in a separate document
15:24:00 <Rain> Lisa: want to make sure we are documenting what we are removing. Language?
15:24:46 <Lisa> rain will add whats removed
15:25:34 <Lisa> 4 new buckets , from card sorting
15:29:09 <Lisa> john: can we see it
15:29:20 <Lisa> Rain: I have put a screen shot in the document
15:29:59 <Lisa> q+
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15:30:15 <Lisa> rain is going over the tags
15:30:39 <Rain> Lisa: these tags are more to show the proof of concept
15:31:01 <Rain> ... someone who is a javascript programmer may not look at themeselves as an engeineer, so we need to clarify the roles
15:31:13 <Rain> ... also things that are missing like policy maker and management
15:31:22 <Rain> ... user needs can also expand
15:31:50 <Rain> ... a step we have to do as well is to go through the language
15:32:10 <Rain> ... good buckets, but don't have fine tuned thing yet to be sure represents everything and everyone can find them
15:32:16 <Rain> ... so will need to do tweaking
15:35:11 <Lisa> yuser stories and illistration and patterns under each
15:35:25 <Lisa> q+ to ask if we cna have visual cures and icons
15:36:34 <Rain> Lisa: could do with a good use of colors and icons. Maybe each objective has its own color to help you get a feeling quickly for where you are?
15:37:27 <Rain> ... visual support to help you know where you are
15:37:44 <Lisa> rain: that is the design phase
15:38:20 <Lisa> q+ testing might be more patterns at onse
15:38:37 <Lisa> q+ to say testing might be more patterns at onse
15:39:10 <Rain> Lisa: when we get the illustrations into the draft we might find they are at the objective level not the pattern level
15:39:32 <Rain> ... for testing, David pointed out that there are a bunch of patterns that are tested together
15:39:48 <Rain> ... testing may need to be at the objective level instead of the pattern level
15:40:01 <Rain> ... found on last one that we only had testing at an objective level
15:40:13 <Rain> ... and there are also different kinds of testing
15:40:48 <Lisa> useer, etc
15:41:33 <Lisa> John: can we have the link
15:41:35 <Rain> kirkwood: asking for link to the document
15:41:39 <Rain> link we are reviewing: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KHWpKAWOb6p7r-WdrdDUIqFB3BCVnLjRYVcEBM88hPQ/edit#
15:42:46 <Lisa> Q?
15:42:51 <Lisa> ack l
15:42:51 <Zakim> Lisa, you wanted to say the interactive version do not need the first parts of the stucture and to  and to ask if we cna have visual cures and icons and to say testing might be
15:42:54 <Zakim> ... more patterns at onse
15:45:00 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.f0lpte83z41m
15:45:08 <Lisa> john: what is the exact action
15:45:12 <Rain> Rain: asking everyone to review the document at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KHWpKAWOb6p7r-WdrdDUIqFB3BCVnLjRYVcEBM88hPQ/edit# before July 6th
15:45:31 <Rain> ... Lisa is adding this to the overall Actions
15:46:17 <Lisa> Focus on the structure , not wording and details
15:46:18 <Rain> ... Request is specifically to look at the overall structure of the document, not the details of the wording
15:46:37 <Rain> Lisa: feel free to add wording if it comes to you, but the focus is the structure
15:46:48 <Rain> ... don't get hung up too much on getting the wording exactly right
15:47:21 <Rain> Rain: requesting that everyone give feedback by EOD July 5th so that it is there for the next subgroup meeting on July 6th
15:47:55 <kirkwood> +1 to one version
15:48:02 <Lisa> rain: two versions is very risky, but might not be possible with in w3c
15:48:10 <Rain> Rain: my dream is that we have one version that can do both, don't know if feasible
15:48:29 <Rain> Lisa: thought could be that we have version in the editors draft with proper tags so that it gets pulled into the interactive view
15:48:42 <Rain> ... that way we auto-pull
15:50:25 <Rain> Lisa: working on finding a way to get feedback from people with intellectual disabilities
15:50:33 <Rain> ... currently happening as an initial conversation
15:50:43 <Rain> ... as a group we also need to figure out how we are gathering feedback
15:51:04 <Lisa> next item
15:51:10 <Lisa> close item 3
15:51:12 <Lisa> next item
15:51:25 <Rain> Kiki: Met last week, and are working on pushing the form for feedback further beyond our community group
15:51:36 <Rain> ... joining the zoom meeting can be difficult for our community
15:52:05 <Rain> ... members are adding more information based on anecdotes, etc.
15:52:26 <Lisa> q?
15:52:35 <Rain> ... member who is part of lots of community groups
15:52:50 <Rain> Lisa: when can we expect to get user needs and patterns we are missing?
15:53:05 <Rain> ... and it is possible to know or have a scope for what groups have been participating
15:53:25 <Rain> ... either directly or indirectly through lived experience or as a care partner?
15:53:54 <Rain> Kiki: not sure we will get super explicit, but more people saying "I don't see this general aspect"
15:54:09 <Rain> ... a lot of individuals aren't using the same vernacular we are using
15:54:38 <Rain> Kiki: one individual is working on describing how fear of pain and failure is a big barrier
15:54:44 <Rain> ... writing a document about that
15:54:46 <Lisa> where and when do we get the results
15:54:47 <Kiki> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12xU2KfO3J5c9fIWenSrYxi87hJtl2OXerWYwyBlR-p0/edit?usp=drive_link
15:55:02 <Rain> ... link is to the more broad sheet of what has been found
15:55:22 <Rain> ... will check with the group to see if they are comfortable sharing what is represented
15:57:42 <kirkwood> q+
15:58:16 <Rain> Kiki: we do know that there needs to be more broad representation
15:58:45 <Rain> Lisa: asking Kiki if we want time on this call to talk through the results, or should coga tf individuals join the community group
15:59:19 <julierawe> I have to leave for a 12pm, thanks everyone!
15:59:23 <Rain> Kiki: will go through the feedback and figure out some more broad strokes
16:00:21 <Rain> Lisa: we have a document of suggestions for new patterns, does Kiki want to add directly to that?
16:00:39 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#heading=h.1kru9t5f0fpj
16:00:45 <Rain> Kiki: will take a look
16:01:01 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:01:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/05-coga-minutes.html Lisa
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