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17:00:29 <jugglinmike> Zakim, start the meeting
17:00:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:00:31 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jugglinmike
17:00:45 <jugglinmike> meeting: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group Weekly Teleconference
17:00:53 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
17:00:53 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria-at
17:00:58 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
17:06:38 <mmoss> present+
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17:10:04 <jugglinmike> present+ Matt_King
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17:11:29 <howard-e> present+
17:21:18 <jugglinmike> Topic: Status of current draft review testing
17:22:42 <jugglinmike> present+ James_Scholes
17:23:09 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Let's start with JAWS and Firefox, Color viewer slider
17:23:36 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Hadi and Isa are assigned. Isa's testing is complete. Hadi has not started, but we had a testing session with him on Monday
17:23:56 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: NVDA and Firefox, Color viewer slider
17:24:14 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Dylan and Isa are testing. There are three conflicts
17:24:27 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: VoiceOver with Chrome, Color viewer slider
17:24:42 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Dylan is assigned, but hasn't started yet. Isa's testing is complete
17:25:48 <jugglinmike> present+ Hadi_Rangin
17:26:29 <jugglinmike> Hadi_Rangin: I will complete testing for Color Viewer Slider with JAWS and Firefox by the end of the week
17:26:52 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It seems like we might be able to wrap up color viewer slider within the next week
17:27:04 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Moving on to Navigation menu button
17:27:21 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Isa is the only person assigned for JAWS and Firefox. Those tests are complete
17:27:43 <jugglinmike> present+ Sam_Shaw
17:27:46 <jugglinmike> present+ howard-e
17:28:10 <jugglinmike> howard-e: Louis at Bocoup will be off next week, but will be available the following week
17:35:19 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: The same situation for other AT/Browser combos
17:35:34 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Modal dialog
17:36:04 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: JAWS and Firefox has one conflict
17:36:12 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: NVDA and Firefox have no conflicts
17:36:47 <jugglinmike> VoiceOver has only one Tester--Isa. She has completed testing. We'll need another tester
17:37:09 <jugglinmike> s/VoiceOver has/James_Scholes: VoiceOver has/
17:37:37 <jugglinmike> present+ Murray_Moss
17:38:00 <jugglinmike> Murray_Moss: I'd like to volunteer for VoiceOver testing
17:38:23 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Thank you! James_Scholes will get you set up as a Tester in ARIA-AT App
17:40:14 <jugglinmike> Topic: Progressing candidate test plans to recommended phase
17:41:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: In the Working Mode (that's the business process of the Community Group), test plans move from "draft review" to "candidate review", and once we feel we have sufficient consensus from the active AT implementers, we move them into the "recommended" phase
17:42:07 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Last week, we were talking about the process of moving from "Candidate" to "Recommended" in the "sandbox" server
17:42:40 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Isa is putting together a report about what high-level issues we would need to raise with the vendors. We hope to have the complete by either tomorrow or Friday
17:43:38 <jugglinmike> Topic: Triage automation issues
17:43:58 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Should one tester be able to assign verdicts to AT responses collected by another? · Issue #936 · w3c/aria-at
17:44:07 <jugglinmike> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/936
17:46:22 <Sam_Shaw> scribe+
17:47:20 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: These three issues are related to latent capabilities that automation is surfacing. Up until now, testing has included two processes, collecting test data, and assigning verdicts.
17:47:29 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: We are still defining what assigning a verdict means
17:50:00 <Sam_Shaw> These questions also help us define if we can think of automation as another user in the system.
17:50:55 <Sam_Shaw> MK: So then there are two roles, one to collect responses, and one to be a response analyzer
17:52:40 <Sam_Shaw> We need to also define the skill set and experience required for each role
17:52:56 <Sam_Shaw> Link to GitHub Issue for this question: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/936
17:53:59 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: In an earlier meeting this week, James pointed out that currently we have some implicit requirements for testers (having an AT installed and be a daily user of it) that prove they have the experience required to run tests
17:54:39 <Sam_Shaw> MK: What are the dependencies of making these decisions? Will the answers effect the data architecture required?
17:55:16 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then yes they are critical. This is about being proactive and not painting ourselves into a corner
17:55:39 <Sam_Shaw> These are the additional questions Mike Raised: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/937
17:55:40 <Sam_Shaw> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/938
17:56:24 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: Answering the questions would help define the working mode and help us decide the kinds of tasks we want to work on developing.
17:57:42 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: The working mode would then be more substantiated by answering these questions
17:57:55 <Sam_Shaw> MK: Can we prioritize one of these questions and get everyones feedback?
17:58:28 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: The third question depends on the first. The second is dependent
17:59:07 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: The idea would be the more we decouple these two tasks of collecting responses and assigning verdicts, the more potential there is to flush out conflicts.
17:59:43 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: We need to make sure we are getting the same result with the AT, before we decide how to split up assigning verdicts
18:00:20 <Sam_Shaw> MK: I'm wondering about a way forward. Should we discuss 938 first?
18:00:47 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: Maybe, its hard to take these apart. Its really about how much we want to commit to treating these as separate functions
18:02:23 <garcialo> present+
18:03:02 <Sam_Shaw> MK: I dont see a world where we don't have a human collect a result for each test.
18:03:26 <garcialo> I've got to head out. Go ahead and let me know next steps and whatnot with the test stuff.
18:04:15 <Sam_Shaw> MK: I will work to add answers to these questions, James and Isa should work on responses to these as well
18:05:18 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: We also need to figure out if we need to address automation in the working mode
18:05:23 <Sam_Shaw> MK: Yes lets discuss on Monday
20:06:50 <jugglinmike> zakim, end the meeting
20:06:50 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, mmoss, Matt_King, howard-e, James_Scholes, Hadi_Rangin, Sam_Shaw, Murray_Moss, garcialo
20:06:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:06:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/24-aria-at-minutes.html Zakim
20:07:00 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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