13:34:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:34:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/05/11-i18n-irc
13:34:34 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
13:34:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:34:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:34:49 <trackbot> Date: 11 May 2023
13:35:02 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:35:06 <addison> regrets+ Felix
13:35:14 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/bcffcb42-2fb9-4b0c-a749-a7c5c2cf5813/20230511T150000
13:35:14 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:35:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:35:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:35:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:35:18 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:35:20 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
13:35:23 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:35:32 <addison> agenda+ How do we feel about installable locales?
13:35:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/11-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:37:22 <trackbot> Please see <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
13:49:46 <xfq_> xfq_ has joined #i18n
13:50:35 <addison> present+ Addison
13:51:01 <xfq_> xfq_ has joined #i18n
13:56:23 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
13:57:01 <addison> topic: REMINDER that the dial in has changed
13:58:20 <addison> present+ Fuqiao
13:59:28 <addison> present+ Atsushi
14:00:49 <JcK> And the W3C site is not letting me log in this morning to get the new link
14:01:19 <r12a> i think i'm clicking on the new link, but end up on a call with just me on it
14:06:19 <JcK> present+ JcK
14:06:27 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:06:27 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:06:29 <addison> agenda?
14:06:49 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:06:49 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:06:58 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:07:42 <atsushi> addison: send an email for outlining stalled state
14:08:16 <atsushi> addison: 1257, haven't time to check on styling, so not done yet
14:08:52 <atsushi> addison: 1265, do we agree to close this last week?
14:08:54 <addison> w3c/i18n-discuss#11?
14:08:55 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues/11 -> Issue 11 Languages / writing systems with 2 line breaking conventions in common use? (frivoal)
14:08:58 <atsushi> xfq: korean line breaking issue
14:09:32 <atsushi> r12a: no idea
14:10:09 <atsushi> addison: thread is two line breaking for korean language
14:10:20 <atsushi> ... let's look offline?
14:10:48 <atsushi> xfq: 1266, done
14:10:57 <atsushi> addison: will update i18n-css call
14:11:22 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:11:22 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:11:41 <addison> present+ Bert, Richard
14:11:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/11-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:12:06 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/pages/languagedev_participation.html
14:12:11 <atsushi> r12a: may mention before, working on onboarding path
14:12:24 <atsushi> ... looking at this page
14:12:49 <atsushi> ... check when you have time, to check lines works well or not
14:12:56 <addison> action: addison: ask group to review languagedev_participation by next week
14:13:03 <ghurlbot> Sorry, I don't know what repository to use.
14:13:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1271 - Ask group to review languagedev_participation by next week [on Addison Phillips - due 2023-05-18].
14:13:06 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:13:06 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:13:08 <atsushi> addison: ask group to review, and back next week
14:13:33 <atsushi> xfq: for newbie, what is language enablement, could be difficult
14:13:40 <atsushi> r12a: a line there
14:13:58 <atsushi> addison: please write a comment on that
14:14:15 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:14:29 <atsushi> addison: no new incoming
14:14:45 <atsushi> addison: 14 pending issues for manifest, mostly small
14:15:02 <addison> agenda?
14:15:17 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
14:15:17 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- How do we feel about installable locales? -- taken up [from addison]
14:15:29 <addison> https://github.com/tc39/ecma402/pull/780#issuecomment-1541345796
14:15:56 <atsushi> addison: happened to see ecma 402 issue, they have an action above
14:16:08 <xfq__> xfq__ has joined #i18n
14:16:19 <atsushi> ... purpose to prevent fingerprinting for minolity to be trackable by browser configuration
14:16:34 <atsushi> ... not aware of any browser currently supporting installable locales
14:17:00 <atsushi> ... but heard that chrome is possible to download locale data when needed, rather than installed package
14:17:44 <atsushi> ... installable locale could be usable for now, but need to consider about prohibiting this or not
14:18:08 <atsushi> ... whether we should jump into this. this is like a font thing we discussed before
14:18:29 <atsushi> addison: all of people in taeget language/locale are affected
14:18:37 <atsushi> r12a: what does installable locale mean?
14:19:11 <atsushi> addison: not installed in browser, but could be used from icu locales
14:19:34 <atsushi> ... installing icu data or new locale data, could make people to use new locale
14:19:52 <atsushi> ... but would not happen in most cases
14:20:04 <atsushi> xfq: fix seems proposed as editorial
14:20:17 <atsushi> addison: it's by javascript internationalization people
14:20:26 <atsushi> r12a: what javascript have to do?
14:20:45 <atsushi> addison: prevent javascript to install/use more new locales
14:21:59 <atsushi> [conversation on what feature is]
14:25:57 <atsushi> addison: do we have consensus that we should push this up, or not?
14:26:08 <atsushi> [agreed]
14:26:16 <atsushi> addison: will push this point as WG resolution
14:26:36 <addison> RESOLVED: push back on current language in ecma402 PR 780
14:26:47 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:26:47 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:27:02 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending
14:27:19 <atsushi> addison: mostly for manufest
14:27:37 <atsushi> ... we reviewed mini-app manifest while a go, but did not for manifest
14:27:41 <xfq__> s/manufest/manifest/
14:27:51 <xfq__> rrsagent, make minutes
14:27:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/11-i18n-minutes.html xfq__
14:28:10 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1700
14:28:35 <atsushi> addison: 1700, manifest has title icon shortname etc., in one language
14:28:52 <atsushi> ... they do provide manifest file, but not localizable
14:29:36 <atsushi> ... manifest is better to stored with icons in different locales (and sizes)
14:29:57 <atsushi> s/(and sizes)/(like sizes)
14:30:05 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1701
14:30:12 <atsushi> addison: agreeed for 1700
14:30:43 <atsushi> addison: 1701, shortcuts appears with title etc. but without lang/dir
14:31:10 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1702
14:31:26 <atsushi> r12a: let's go through if you have any questionable points
14:32:38 <atsushi> addison: 1702, auto is not the same as no explicit directionality, any better text for replacement?
14:32:54 <xfq__> Previous discussions: https://github.com/w3c/manifest/pull/926
14:33:18 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1703
14:34:47 <atsushi> addison: 1703
14:35:31 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1704
14:35:38 <atsushi> bert: I think localizable is more than having lang, but fine to file
14:35:58 <atsushi> addison: 1704, editorial on cite
14:37:00 <atsushi> r12a: we have talked about this with the same editor on different spec
14:37:08 <xfq__> https://github.com/w3c/manifest/pull/926
14:37:36 <atsushi> xfq: it was in the manifest spec, as above isuse
14:37:36 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1705
14:37:40 <atsushi> s/isuse/issue
14:38:30 <atsushi> addison: 1705, on description of language tag
14:38:40 <atsushi> r12a: list some good way?
14:38:47 <atsushi> addison: in second paragraph, there are some
14:39:11 <atsushi> r12a: voice ones? for a11y
14:39:20 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1706
14:40:03 <ralph1> ralph1 has joined #i18n
14:40:04 <atsushi> addison: 1706, description of language tag is broken
14:40:31 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1707
14:41:34 <atsushi> addison: 1707, psudo code of processing lang is included, with ecma402 function
14:43:38 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1708
14:44:19 <atsushi> xfq: mention about cldr or bcp?
14:44:43 <atsushi> addison: 1708, localizability stuff
14:45:37 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1709
14:46:42 <atsushi> addison: 1709, they prohibit change of name or icon by localization by security reason, should be ok but asking for application
14:47:57 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1710
14:48:36 <atsushi> addison: 1710, shortcut is interesting, tell context menu to jump into somewhere in the app
14:48:50 <atsushi> ... kind of short cutting in the app
14:49:02 <atsushi> ... appears to UI of the host system
14:49:24 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1711
14:49:45 <atsushi> addison: 1711, again, application name and shortname
14:50:02 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1712
14:50:38 <atsushi> addison: 1712, manifest file is in json, by definition it's unicode but not commonly
14:51:28 <atsushi> r12a: for next time, use emoji of issue to indicate whether one is fine to put or not
14:51:41 <atsushi> addison: let's try it
14:51:49 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1713
14:52:17 <atsushi> addison: 1713, quoted from internationalization consideration section, read and discuss here
14:52:40 <atsushi> r12a: what to do here?
14:52:47 <atsushi> addison: discuss here, not jump into there
14:53:19 <atsushi> addison: if localization strategy is implemented into manifest, could push this out?
14:54:18 <atsushi> xfq: might be different manifest?
14:54:32 <atsushi> addison: one manifest per language? how to deal with sub-tags?
14:55:03 <atsushi> ... multi-language file could be quite large file
14:55:04 <xfq__> <link rel="manifest" href="en.json">
14:55:04 <xfq__> <link rel="manifest" href="fr.json">
14:55:04 <xfq__> <link rel="manifest" href="zh-Hans.json">
14:55:26 <atsushi> xfq: currently there could have multiple manifest link as above
14:55:36 <xfq__> app?lang=fr
14:56:03 <atsushi> addison: how to tell on which language, and how to prevent finerprinting?
14:57:13 <atsushi> xfq: javascript can manipurate accept-lang
14:57:52 <atsushi> addison: on that time, contents of manifest could be displaied already
14:58:04 <atsushi> ... provably need to be happened at server side
14:58:51 <addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/localizable-manifests/
15:00:46 <atsushi> [discussion on how it works]
15:00:46 <atsushi> r12a: what to propose?
15:00:46 <atsushi> addison: here is localizable manifest, or we can have call with them,,,
15:02:31 <atsushi> [on strategy]
15:04:27 <xfq__> is it https://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/#internationalization-and-localization ?
15:04:33 <atsushi> addison: any other thoughts on this manifest spec?
15:05:26 <addison> Topic: AOB?
15:05:52 <atsushi> [no item]
15:06:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/11-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:06:38 <addison> close action-1266
15:06:38 <trackbot> Closed action-1266.
15:07:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/11-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:24:33 <addison> zakim, bye
15:24:33 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Fuqiao, Atsushi, JcK, Bert, Richard
15:24:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
16:33:55 <Bert> join &global