15:59:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
15:59:36 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-irc
15:59:44 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
16:00:22 <Dominik_T> Dominik_T has joined #rdf-star
16:00:24 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-star
16:00:28 <TallTed> Zakim, this is RDF-Star WG Weekly Meeting
16:00:28 <Zakim> got it, TallTed
16:00:30 <TallTed> meeting: RDF-Star WG Weekly Meeting
16:00:32 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0f70df76-9ca5-44f5-9db0-ac47fe52f332#agenda
16:00:32 <agendabot> TallTed, sorry, could not get https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0f70df76-9ca5-44f5-9db0-ac47fe52f332#agenda (code 400).
16:00:34 <TallTed> chair: ora
16:00:36 <TallTed> present+
16:00:41 <Dominik_T> present+
16:00:44 <AZ> present+
16:00:44 <ora> present+
16:00:47 <pfps> present+
16:00:48 <afs> present+
16:00:52 <AZ> scribe+
16:00:56 <TallTed> well, there's a reason the agenda shouldn't just be in the calendar!
16:01:05 <gkellogg> present+
16:01:12 <gtw> present+
16:01:23 <pchampin> present+
16:01:40 <TallTed> regrets: adrian
16:01:58 <TallTed> s/adrian/ktk
16:02:56 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f2add3af-6743-4f52-8fcc-4f62c6cdd8af/20230420T120000#agenda
16:02:56 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:02:56 <agendabot> agenda+ Scribe: Zimmermann, Antoine (alternate: Hartig, Olaf )
16:02:56 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of last week's minutes:  -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/04/13-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:02:56 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at  -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:02:57 <agendabot> agenda+ Continuation "First Public Working Draft" (FPWD) process:  -> 3 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0121.html
16:03:01 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at  -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
16:03:04 <agendabot> agenda+ Use case proposal by Peter:  -> 5 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0100.html
16:03:07 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting Next week's scribe: Hartig, Olaf
16:03:17 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:03:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:03:29 <TallTed> zakim, start meeting
16:03:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:03:31 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), TallTed
16:04:07 <TallTed> s/well, there's a reason the agenda shouldn't just be in the calendar!//
16:04:16 <gkellogg> zakim, next agendum
16:04:16 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe: Zimmermann, Antoine (alternate: Hartig, Olaf ) -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:03:48 <AZ> olaf: I will be travelling the next two weeks so will not be able to scribe
16:05:00 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
16:05:00 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, pchampin
16:05:02 <gkellogg> zakim, open agendum 2
16:05:02 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Approval of last week's minutes:  -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/04/13-rdf-star-minutes.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:04:23 <gtw> I am missing from regrets in last week's minutes.
16:05:09 <enrico> enrico has joined #rdf-star
16:05:12 <pfps> minutes look fine
16:05:17 <ora> PROPOSAL: Approve last week's minutes
16:05:18 <olaf> present+
16:05:18 <enrico> present+
16:05:24 <AZ> <AZ> +1
16:05:26 <Dominik_T> +1
16:05:28 <olaf> +1
16:05:28 <gkellogg> +1
16:05:29 <TallTed> +1
16:05:29 <pchampin> q+
16:05:29 <rubensworks> +1
16:05:30 <afs> +1
16:05:32 <ora> +1
16:05:34 <enrico> +1
16:05:39 <ora> ack pchampin
16:05:46 <pfps> +1
16:06:00 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:06:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:06:07 <AZ> pchampin: Greg Willimas is missing from the regrets in minutes
16:06:22 <AZ> s/Willimas/Williams
16:06:40 <ora> RESOLUTION: Approve last week's minutes
16:06:57 <pchampin> zakim, open item 3
16:06:57 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at  -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:06:58 <gkellogg> zakim, open agendum 3
16:07:00 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at  -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:07:10 <TallTed> scribe-
16:07:10 <gkellogg> q+
16:07:27 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:08:29 <AZ> gkellogg: regarding #23 and #19 there is a PR that add the notion of full and classic conformance
16:08:48 <AZ> pchampin: no progress on my actions
16:09:04 <AZ> s/add/adds
16:09:04 <gkellogg> zakim, open agendum 4
16:09:04 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Continuation "First Public Working Draft" (FPWD) process:  -> 3 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0121.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:09:10 <ora> q?
16:09:21 <gkellogg> q+
16:09:32 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:09:46 <AZ> gkellogg: we should publish FPWD
16:09:48 <gkellogg> https://greggkellogg.net/rdf-respec/
16:10:21 <ora> q+
16:10:35 <ora> ack ora
16:10:40 <AZ> ... we need to set up a publication date that we can target
16:11:00 <AZ> ora: should we do only one date?
16:11:14 <AZ> gkellogg: the can all be published
16:11:22 <pchampin> q+
16:12:11 <ora> ack pchampin
16:12:26 <gkellogg> scribe+
16:12:36 <AZ> ... we don't need to worry about the missing references
16:12:56 <ora> q+
16:12:59 <gkellogg> gkellogg: I believe we should publish all documents and essentially freeze, other than for changes needed for publication, targeting a publication date.
16:13:13 <ora> q-
16:13:31 <AZ> pchampin: we can aim for next Thursday
16:13:31 <gkellogg> q+
16:13:49 <AZ> gkellogg: I won't be able to do it for next Thursday
16:13:56 <AZ> ... perhaps May 4th?
16:14:21 <ora> q+
16:14:27 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:14:42 <TallTed> +1 target full boat of FPWDs for May 4
16:14:48 <AZ> ... there's still things to do before having the documents ready, at least mine
16:15:12 <ora> ack ora
16:15:30 <afs> q+
16:15:45 <ora> ack afs
16:16:06 <ora> PROPOSAL: Publish FPWDs on May 4th
16:16:11 <pfps> q+ to ask about freeze
16:16:12 <AZ> afs: for SPARQL docs, query can be published too
16:16:13 <gkellogg> <gkellogg> +1
16:16:15 <ora> +1
16:16:16 <Dominik_T> +1
16:16:17 <pchampin> +1
16:16:18 <rubensworks> +1
16:16:19 <AZ> <AZ> +1
16:16:24 <afs> +1
16:16:27 <olaf> +1
16:16:30 <TallTed> +1
16:16:46 <ora> q?
16:16:50 <ora> ack pfps
16:16:50 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask about freeze
16:16:55 <TallTed> suggest we also PROPOSE/RESOLVE to use echidna to auto-publish EDs thereafter
16:17:01 <AZ> pfps: there PRs that have a lot of discussions
16:17:03 <pfps> +1 assuming that the only changes will be for PFWD process
16:17:09 <AZ> ... what do we do with them?
16:17:29 <AZ> gkellogg: editorial changes should be merged
16:17:53 <AZ> ... some of the other things may go in, on a case by case basis
16:18:08 <afs> s/PFWD/FPWD/
16:18:39 <pfps> I worry that different documents will say different things
16:18:56 <AZ> ... not everything need to be fixed for the drafts
16:19:12 <ora> RESOLUTION: Publish FPWDs on May 4th
16:19:13 <AZ> pfps: there may be things in a doc that contradicts another doc
16:19:35 <AZ> gkellogg: but they are just draft
16:20:07 <TallTed> PROPOSAL: set up echidna to auto-publish EDs of all docs as commits are made, going forward
16:20:59 <gkellogg> <gkellogg> +1
16:20:59 <gtw> +1
16:21:00 <ora> +1
16:21:01 <pchampin> +1
16:21:05 <olaf> +1
16:21:10 <rubensworks> +1
16:21:10 <Dominik_T> +1
16:21:11 <AZ> <AZ> +1
16:21:29 <pfps> +1
16:21:30 <pfps> +1
16:21:37 <TallTed> +1
16:22:20 <pchampin> q+
16:22:30 <ora> ack pchampin
16:22:40 <AZ> gkellogg: there is a nned to coordinate the updates
16:22:52 <TallTed> RESOLVED: set up echidna to auto-publish EDs of all docs as commits are made, going forward
16:22:52 <ora> RESOLUTION: set up echidna to auto-publish EDs of all docs as commits are made, going forward
16:23:07 <TallTed> s/RESOLUTION: set up echidna to auto-publish EDs of all docs as commits are made, going forward//
16:23:35 <pchampin> action: pchampin to setup echidna in all GH repository
16:23:43 <ghurlbot> Created -> action #55 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/55
16:24:30 <pchampin> q?
16:24:34 <ora> q+
16:24:40 <ora> ack ora
16:24:53 <AZ> ora: is anyone going to WWW conf?
16:24:53 <pchampin> I am going
16:25:00 <AZ> olaf: yes I do
16:25:26 <gkellogg> zakim, next agendum
16:25:26 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe: Zimmermann, Antoine (alternate: Hartig, Olaf ) -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:25:38 <pchampin> zakim, open agendum 4
16:25:38 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Continuation "First Public Working Draft" (FPWD) process:  -> 3 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0121.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:25:40 <gkellogg> zakim,  open agendum 5
16:25:43 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Review of pull requests, available at  -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:25:47 <TallTed> Zakim, close agendum 1
16:25:47 <Zakim> agendum 1, Scribe: Zimmermann, Antoine (alternate: Hartig, Olaf ), closed
16:25:50 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:25:50 <Zakim> 2. Approval of last week's minutes:  -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/04/13-rdf-star-minutes.html [from agendabot]
16:25:55 <TallTed> Zakim, close agendum 2
16:25:55 <Zakim> agendum 2, Approval of last week's minutes:  -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/04/13-rdf-star-minutes.html, closed
16:25:57 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:25:57 <Zakim> 3. Review of open actions, available at  -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 [from agendabot]
16:25:57 <TallTed> Zakim, close agendum 3
16:25:58 <Zakim> agendum 3, Review of open actions, available at  -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3, closed
16:25:58 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:25:58 <Zakim> 5. Review of pull requests, available at  -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 [from agendabot]
16:26:03 <pfps> zakim, who is here?
16:26:03 <Zakim> Present: TallTed, ora, ktk, afs, Dominik_T, enrico, olaf, doerthe, AZ, pfps, gkellogg, gtw, pchampin
16:26:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see enrico, AZ, Dominik_T, olaf, RRSAgent, pfps, ora, rubensworks, TallTed, gkellogg, afs, ghurlbot, driib, Zakim, VladimirAlexiev, Timothe, agendabot, Tpt, ktk, csarven,
16:26:05 <Zakim> ... rhiaro, gtw, pchampin
16:26:09 <TallTed> Zakim, close agendum 4
16:26:09 <Zakim> agendum 4, Continuation "First Public Working Draft" (FPWD) process:  -> 3 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0121.html, closed
16:26:12 <afs> q+
16:26:13 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:26:13 <Zakim> 5. Review of pull requests, available at  -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 [from agendabot]
16:26:52 <ora> ack afs
16:27:01 <gkellogg> q+
16:27:06 <AZ> ora: pr #13 will be left for next week
16:27:25 <AZ> gkellogg: pr #22 is related to RDF/XML
16:27:25 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/22 -> Pull Request 22 [closed] Suggest an extension to the abstract and concrete syntaxes (gkellogg)
16:27:39 <TallTed> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/pull/22
16:27:56 <AZ> ... it relates to 8 different repos
16:28:18 <afs> q+
16:28:24 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:28:29 <AZ> ... I have not merged Ted's suggestions about RDF/XML
16:28:51 <TallTed> q+
16:28:58 <ora> ack afs
16:29:00 <AZ> ... there might be some breaking changes if we change some things
16:29:12 <ora> ack TallTed
16:29:39 <AZ> TallTed: removing things that create misunderstanding is good
16:30:24 <AZ> ... there would not be problems with 6-letters file extension
16:30:26 <ora> q+
16:30:32 <ora> ack ora
16:30:51 <gkellogg> q+
16:31:03 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:31:05 <AZ> ora: we would deprecate the .rdf extension
16:31:39 <gkellogg> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3870
16:31:48 <afs> q+
16:31:49 <AZ> gkellogg: RDF/XML is the only format which is its own RFC
16:32:20 <ora> q+
16:32:25 <ora> ack afs
16:32:46 <AZ> ... we could keep things the way they are
16:32:48 <ora> ack ora
16:33:22 <AZ> ora: a use case for RDF/XML is the XXX metadata
16:33:30 <pchampin> s/XXX/XMP/
16:33:45 <ora> q+
16:33:51 <AZ> afs: there are other cases where RDF/XML is used
16:34:07 <ora> q-
16:34:36 <AZ> gkellogg: we can keep RDF/XML, even if it will not have support for quoted triples
16:34:52 <AZ> ... let us maintain the status quo
16:35:35 <AZ> ... we do not need to worry about the Macintosh file type
16:35:43 <afs> q+
16:35:56 <ora> ack afs
16:35:57 <AZ> TallTed: Mac file type is "almost" obsolete, still used a bit
16:36:21 <ora> q+
16:36:26 <ora> ack ora
16:37:08 <AZ> ora: there is no reason to remove things, we can add a new extension instead, but be careful about legacy
16:37:24 <AZ> afs: I'm still not ok changing file extension
16:38:04 <AZ> ... it is too widespread on the web
16:38:22 <AZ> TallTed: it is misguiding people into thinking that RDF means .rdf files means RDF/XML
16:38:40 <AZ> ... a better extension will benefit everyone
16:39:15 <AZ> gkellogg: 1st suggestion: replace wording for mime-type
16:39:31 <AZ> ...2nd suggestion: .rdfxml become preferred file extension
16:39:55 <AZ> ... and we don't change the Mac file code
16:40:28 <AZ> afs: we should consider .rdfx
16:40:40 <AZ> ... as it is a common practice to add x for XML-based formats
16:41:30 <AZ> rubensworks: pr #19 incorporates quoted triples into SPARQL XML result formats
16:41:38 <AZ> s/formats/format
16:42:34 <AZ> afs: are  there any alternative proposals?
16:42:47 <AZ> RRSAgent: not that I am aware of
16:42:47 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'not that I am aware of', AZ.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:43:00 <AZ> s/RRSAgent/rubensworks
16:43:36 <AZ> gkellogg: quoted triples is part of the fondamental concepts
16:44:04 <AZ> ... quoted triples in SPARQL results should be added
16:44:04 <olaf> s/fondamental/fundamental
16:44:16 <pfps> I am uncomfortable about progressing with WG discussion on the basic idea, but I'm not going to protest.
16:44:24 <AZ> ora: it seems this could be merged
16:45:00 <AZ> rubensworks: we may need to discuss this in relation to the equivalent in SPARQL results in different formats
16:46:17 <TallTed> q+
16:46:32 <AZ> ora: it's a substentive change, so I would like to leave it for one more week
16:46:40 <ora> ack TallTed
16:48:20 <AZ> TallTed: we can take a temporary resolution and wait a week for reactions
16:49:16 <TallTed> PROPOSED: We will merge https://github.com/w3c/sparql-results-json/pull/19/ after modification to show examples both with and without quoted triples, and this will be our way forward (barring objection by April 27)
16:49:29 <AZ> <AZ> +1
16:49:30 <ora> +1
16:49:36 <TallTed> +1
16:49:37 <gkellogg> <gkellogg> +1
16:49:42 <rubensworks> +1
16:49:43 <pfps> +0
16:49:44 <afs> +1
16:49:44 <olaf> +1
16:49:45 <pchampin> +1
16:49:47 <Dominik_T> +1
16:49:47 <gtw> +1
16:50:04 <TallTed> RESOLVED: We will merge https://github.com/w3c/sparql-results-json/pull/19/ after modification to show examples both with and without quoted triples, and this will be our way forward (barring objection by April 27)
16:50:56 <AZ> rubensworks: we can propose the same for XML results
16:51:58 <gkellogg> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/32
16:52:01 <AZ> ora: I support doing both
16:52:24 <AZ> gkellogg: pr#32 for concepts is about the concept of quoted triples
16:52:25 <TallTed> s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/32|subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/32|
16:52:57 <afs> q+
16:53:21 <ora> ack afs
16:53:38 <gkellogg> q+
16:53:46 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:54:16 <afs> afs: Concerned about remarks from gkellogg about "additional terminology"
16:54:46 <AZ> gkellogg: there were some issues regarding terminology, now the only change is addition of quoted/asserted triples
16:55:07 <AZ> ... there was also wordings about classic and full conformance
16:55:19 <AZ> s/was/were/
16:55:55 <AZ> ... it is important that we have the terminology for these
16:56:30 <AZ> .. now we only add the terms quoted triples and asserted triples
16:56:50 <AZ> afs: the changes are also affecting other things
16:57:19 <AZ> afs: can we prioritise use cases for next week
16:57:24 <pchampin> +1
16:57:29 <AZ> +1
16:57:40 <enrico> +1
16:57:42 <enrico> +1
16:57:44 <ora> +1
16:57:45 <enrico> +1
16:57:46 <enrico> +1
16:57:49 <enrico> +1
16:58:03 <AZ> pfps: we need an approval for the TF to proceed
16:58:19 <AZ> ... hopefully it does not need to take much time
16:58:22 <TallTed> +1
16:58:27 <gkellogg> <gkellogg> Regrets for next week's meeting.
16:58:30 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:58:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
16:59:36 <olaf> Regrets from my side for next week as well (and most likely even for the week after).
16:59:43 <olaf> olaf has left #rdf-star
17:00:42 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:00:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:03:11 <pchampin> s|agendum 1 -- Scribe: Zimmermann, Antoine (alternate: Hartig, Olaf ) -- taken up [from agendabot]|
17:03:16 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:03:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:06:15 <pchampin> s|pr #13|pr w3c/sparql-protocol#13
17:06:29 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:06:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:07:24 <pchampin> s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/22 -> Pull Request 22 [closed] Suggest an extension to the abstract and concrete syntaxes (gkellogg)|
17:08:53 <pchampin> i|pr #19|subtopic: w3c/sparql-results-xml#19
17:09:11 <pchampin> s|pr #19|pr w3c/sparql-results-xml#19
17:09:32 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:09:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:10:28 <pchampin> s|pr#32|pr w3c/rdf-concepts#32
17:10:29 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/pr/issues/32 -> Issue 32 [not found]
17:10:31 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:10:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:11:46 <pchampin> RRSAgent, bye
17:11:46 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
17:11:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pchampin to setup echidna in all GH repository [1]
17:11:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/04/20-rdf-star-irc#T16-23-35
<pchampin> s|pr #22|pr w3c/rdf-xml#22
<pchampin> s|agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at  -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]|
<pchampin> s|agendum 4 -- Continuation "First Public Working Draft" (FPWD) process:  -> 3 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0121.html -- taken up [from agendabot]|
<pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/04/13-rdf-star-minutes.html
<pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/04/27-rdf-star-minutes.html