13:54:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
13:54:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/04/19-apa-irc
13:54:30 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:54:31 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), matatk
13:54:40 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:54:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/19-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:54:48 <matatk> zakim, clear the agenda
13:54:48 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:54:57 <matatk> Chair:  Matthew
13:54:57 <matatk> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:54:57 <matatk> agenda+ TPAC 2023 planning - https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2023
13:54:57 <matatk> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests - https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
13:54:58 <matatk> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker - https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:55:00 <matatk> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) - https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
13:55:02 <matatk> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) - https://github.com/w3c/apa/labels/action et al
13:55:05 <matatk> agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup - https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
13:55:08 <matatk> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:55:10 <matatk> agenda+ Other Business
13:55:15 <matatk> agenda+ Be done
13:55:18 <matatk> agenda?
13:55:29 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:55:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/19-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:59:02 <matatk> Meeting: APA WEEKLY Teleconference
13:59:04 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/19-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:59:14 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
13:59:36 <matatk> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
13:59:40 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/19-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:59:57 <janina> present+
13:59:58 <matatk> regrets+ Alisa
14:00:01 <matatk> present+
14:00:02 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/19-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:02:55 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
14:03:16 <mike_beganyi> present+
14:04:24 <mike_beganyi> scribe+
14:04:36 <matatk> zakim, who's here?
14:04:36 <Zakim> Present: Roy, Fredrik, matatk, mike_beganyi, PaulG, janina
14:04:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see mike_beganyi, PaulG, RRSAgent, matatk, tzviya, dmontalvo, MichaelC_, kirkwood, Roy_, ghurlbot, Mike5Matrix, Github, janina, Zakim, agendabot, ada, ZoeBijl,
14:04:38 <Zakim> ... slightlyoff, tink, Rachael, cwilso, jcraig
14:05:01 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up item 1
14:05:01 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from matatk]
14:05:34 <mike_beganyi> matatk: nothing new
14:05:36 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
14:05:38 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:05:38 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:05:38 <Zakim> 2. TPAC 2023 planning - https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2023 [from matatk]
14:05:48 <mike_beganyi> zakim, take up item 2
14:05:48 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC 2023 planning - https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2023 -- taken up [from matatk]
14:05:53 <dmontalvo> dmontalvo has left #apa
14:06:10 <mike_beganyi> matatk: TPAC website is up
14:06:17 <matatk> Official site: https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/
14:06:33 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
14:06:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #apa
14:06:43 <mike_beganyi> matatk: same request: need to know which other working groups we want to talk to
14:06:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:06:59 <mike_beganyi> matatk: feedback welcome, send if you can
14:07:11 <Gottfried> present+
14:07:55 <matatk> q?
14:07:59 <mike_beganyi>  zakim, next item
14:07:59 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Explicit Review Requests - https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from matatk]
14:08:19 <mike_beganyi> matatk: nothing new this week
14:08:25 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
14:08:25 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
14:08:26 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:08:26 <Zakim> 4. A11y Review Comment Tracker - https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from matatk]
14:09:14 <mike_beganyi> subtopic: Review list separators WHATWG issue
14:09:56 <matatk> #322
14:09:56 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/322 -> Action 322 Review list separators WHATWG issue (on mbeganyi)
14:10:12 <matatk> Mike's review: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2023Apr/0012.html
14:13:20 <mike_beganyi> matatk: can query a database of web pages to determine how common the pattern is
14:14:07 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: why wouldn't CSS put a line in on a subgroup to delineate?
14:14:13 <mike_beganyi> janina: agree
14:14:28 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: agree as well
14:14:44 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: it's not just a visual rule, there are some semantics
14:14:45 <PaulG> https://www.sarasoueidan.com/blog/horizontal-rules/#semantics-and-accessibility
14:15:23 <matatk> s/why wouldn't/concerned about the lack of semantics. why wouldn't you use a nested list and have/
14:15:41 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: semantics match separation but not grouping
14:16:13 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: semantic and visual separation are distinct
14:16:53 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: a case where you want semantics and visual to match
14:17:45 <mike_beganyi> matatk: if common, we need to legitimize and verify. encourage authors to do things semantically correct
14:17:59 <mike_beganyi> matatk: this might be a lighter-weight approach versus other methods (nested lists)
14:18:39 <mike_beganyi> matatk: if standardized, then AT developers can choose how to announce the nested grouping
14:19:03 <mike_beganyi> janina: can use CSS for that (announcing lines)
14:19:53 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #apa
14:20:00 <mike_beganyi> matatk: regardless, something should come across to the user as opposed to getting ignored. getting the info in the DOM reported in some way and the ATs can determine how to do it, it's just up to us to give the opportunity
14:20:53 <mike_beganyi> janina: what does this issue attempt to solve? what can be achieved here that can't already be done by other existent methods?
14:22:06 <MichaelC_> MichaelC_ has joined #apa
14:23:12 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: would be worth consulting WHATWG archive to see how this is implemented
14:23:37 <mike_beganyi> matatk: need to determine how widely used this is, and also pass this to Low Vision Task Force,
14:24:20 <mike_beganyi> matatk: monitor WHATWG thread for any updates, discuss on call next week
14:24:54 <matatk> q?
14:24:58 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:24:58 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker - https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from matatk]
14:25:15 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
14:25:15 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
14:25:15 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
14:25:16 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:25:16 <Zakim> 5. CSS Update (Paul) - https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues [from matatk]
14:25:17 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:25:17 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- CSS Update (Paul) - https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from matatk]
14:25:20 <Fredrik> present+
14:25:58 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: last week was about animation API, discussing difficulty of animation accessibility
14:26:14 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
14:26:14 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
14:26:15 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:26:15 <Zakim> 6. Actions Checkin (Specs) - https://github.com/w3c/apa/labels/action et al [from matatk]
14:26:17 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:26:17 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) - https://github.com/w3c/apa/labels/action et al -- taken up [from matatk]
14:26:54 <mike_beganyi> matatk: I had an action, closed it and e-mailed list last week
14:27:30 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
14:27:30 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
14:27:31 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:27:31 <Zakim> 7. Dangling Spec Review Cleanup - https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned [from matatk]
14:27:33 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:27:33 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup - https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned -- taken up [from matatk]
14:28:04 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
14:28:04 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
14:28:05 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:28:05 <Zakim> 8. Task Force & Deliverables Updates [from matatk]
14:28:06 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:28:07 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from matatk]
14:28:43 <mike_beganyi> subtopic: Adapt
14:28:50 <matatk> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-adapt/2023Apr/0004.html
14:29:03 <matatk> ^ Adapt Meeting regarding the Children's Pedagogical Ontology
14:30:09 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Adapt and Web Accessibility in general, as they apply
14:30:17 <Fredrik_> Fredrik_ has joined #apa
14:32:20 <Gottfried> UDL: https://udlguidelines.cast.org/
14:35:20 <mike_beganyi> subtopic: Maturity Model
14:35:49 <mike_beganyi> janina: continues to move forward, another year or so for established work timeline
14:36:23 <mike_beganyi> janina: HTML frontend, currently prototyped in a spreadsheet. important that users house their own data
14:36:27 <mike_beganyi> subtopic: RQTF
14:37:05 <mike_beganyi> janina: continuining to talk about synchronization and chapter markings. asking WHATWG about how to mark up media. right now it's all one level. discussion around sublevels
14:37:26 <mike_beganyi> janina: using of AAC tend to prefer to look at media as opposed to read, hence importance
14:37:41 <mike_beganyi> subtopic: Pronunciation
14:38:03 <mike_beganyi> matatk: putting finishing touches on e-mail to AT vendors regarding SSL.
14:38:49 <mike_beganyi> matatk: working on statement about new task force, FAST, more on that soon
14:38:56 <matatk> q?
14:39:04 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:39:04 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Other Business -- taken up [from matatk]
14:43:26 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: I learned recently that the word triptych—method of explaining to someone, explaining it, then explain it again. never saw textbooks that follows this method until recently: start with the conclusion first. so helpful in many contexts.
14:43:34 <PaulG> https://www.inc.com/john-baldoni/deliver-a-great-speech-aristotle-three-tips.html
14:44:21 <mike_beganyi> matatk: please share the book if you find it, Paul
14:45:21 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:45:21 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- Be done -- taken up [from matatk]
14:45:28 <PaulG> https://www.aaa.com/travelinfo/maps-directions.htm (spelled differently with an (R))
14:46:15 <mike_beganyi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:46:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/19-apa-minutes.html mike_beganyi
16:31:26 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #apa