IRC log of ixml on 2023-04-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:52:23 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ixml
13:52:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/04/11-ixml-irc
13:52:27 [Steven]
*Is
13:52:35 [john]
Now
13:52:42 [john]
Scribe: John
13:52:47 [Steven]
Because now is 14:00 UTC
13:52:50 [john]
Present: John, Steven
13:52:58 [john]
Chair: Steven
13:53:07 [Steven]
and the agenda says 15:00 UTC
13:53:40 [john]
Well - there is the QT4 meeting at 16:00 BST
13:54:38 [john]
rrsagent, make records public
13:55:38 [Steven]
I only turned up in case the agenda was wrong!
13:57:59 [john]
Present:Norm, Bethan
13:58:15 [ndw]
ndw has joined #ixml
13:58:16 [john]
rrsagent create minutes
13:58:18 [BTW]
BTW has joined #ixml
13:58:34 [john]
Present+:John, Steven
13:59:02 [john]
rrsagent, create minutes
13:59:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/11-ixml-minutes.html john
13:59:15 [john]
Presend+: Michael
13:59:29 [john]
Present+: Michael
14:00:39 [john]
Topic: Previous Actions
14:02:13 [john]
ACTION 2023-01-10-b: Michael to take another pass on the EBNF to BNF document -- still continuing
14:02:38 [john]
ACTION 2023-01-10-d: Michael to work out the metadata for identifying the Unicode version(s) associated with a test --- could do with further discussion
14:03:22 [john]
ACTION 2023-01-10-f: Norm and Michael to do a bit of revision to improve the draft documentation of the XML vocabulary (see #137) for further discussion -- continues
14:03:26 [Github]
https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/issues/137 : We should document the XML tag set that results from parsing an ixml grammar with the ixml specification grammar
14:03:40 [john]
ACTION 2023-01-10-h: Michael to review RELAX NG rules and report back - continues
14:03:52 [john]
ACTION 2023-02-07-a: Steven to make Pull Request for Unicode test - continues
14:04:11 [john]
ACTION 2023-02-07-b: Michael to think about adding to the test suite schema to cover browser (etc) version - dicsuss later
14:04:25 [john]
s/dcsuss/discuss/
14:04:49 [john]
ACTION 2023-02-07-e: Bethan order stickers (for Markup UK) - proofs done but not yet ordered - continuing
14:05:12 [john]
Topic: Status reports
14:05:53 [john]
Status of implementations: CoffePot 2 released
14:06:19 [john]
Status of testing and test suites: discuss re the schema
14:06:35 [john]
rrsagent, create minutes
14:06:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/11-ixml-minutes.html john
14:07:00 [john]
Topic: Publication Plans
14:07:39 [john]
Steven: Link for community group report: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2023Mar/0000.html
14:08:05 [john]
Action: Norm to investigate
14:08:55 [john]
Norm: Proposes to publish the 1.0 erratum spec as the group report
14:09:19 [john]
Topic: Review and resolution of bug reports and technical issues
14:10:36 [john]
Michael: How do we detect and allow for platform variation in the test descriptions, e.g. Unicode version, browser, versions of Xengine....
14:12:45 [john]
Michael: There are additional effect, e.g. checking unreachability. Environmental issues can be either implementation defined or platform dependant.
14:12:55 [john]
s/effect/effects/
14:13:32 [john]
Michael: Uses an 'appInfo' element in the test to predicate test result applicability
14:15:28 [john]
Michael: for issues like Unicode version, the tests are duplicated with predication at the top level.
14:20:15 [john]
John: Look at parallels with 'evironment/feature' predication in the QT3 test suites
14:21:47 [john]
Michael: options in a test case list a set of possible test results.
14:24:32 [john]
Action: Michael to explore the use of named environments in the test suite
14:27:34 [john]
Issue #139 Sample grammars for IRIs and URIs - contiues - make issue for next time
14:27:47 [Github]
https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/issues/139 : https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/blob/master/samples/URI/rfc-3987.ixml
14:32:12 [cmsmcq]
John reported that he has done work on prototype implementations of both grammar import and nonterminal renaming.
14:32:48 [cmsmcq]
Grammar import can borrow a lot from the XSLT packaging mechanism. Requirements include specifying where the grammar to import can be found,
14:33:16 [cmsmcq]
specifying which parts of it you want (JL proposes to interpret that list as 'these and everything reachable from them',
14:33:33 [cmsmcq]
also overriding rules in the imported grammar
14:33:36 [cmsmcq]
and supplementing them
14:34:00 [cmsmcq]
s/them',/them'),/
14:34:23 [cmsmcq]
s/supplementing them/supplementing them./
14:34:40 [cmsmcq]
Supplements might include adding an alternative.
14:35:20 [cmsmcq]
SP says he would really like a prose description of what this would all mean, and why particular features are thought to be required.
14:35:34 [cmsmcq]
Action: John to write up his work on grammar import.
14:36:08 [cmsmcq]
On nonterminal renaming, John says he has found it trickier than it looks. Especially dynamic renaming.
14:37:13 [cmsmcq]
He has come to believe that in many cases, all the action affects the production of output -- in this respect, renaming is an extension of the existing set of marks.
14:38:00 [cmsmcq]
The trickiness is less in the implementation than in making clear exactly what effect a directive like this will have on the grammar.
14:38:54 [cmsmcq]
JL notes that current marks can occur either on definitions or on uses. For renaming, a similar dichotomy arises, but the reference seems particularly important.
14:39:13 [cmsmcq]
If you just want to rename it, why not just name the nonterminal differently?
14:39:39 [cmsmcq]
SP and NDTW answer: because you've already got one with that name.
14:40:30 [cmsmcq]
NDTW says that if we are going to discuss grammar composition, we should try to schedule some time on the use cases document.
14:41:19 [cmsmcq]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:41:23 [cmsmcq]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:41:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/11-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
14:42:40 [cmsmcq]
s/Norm to investigate/Norm to investigate production of rules-conformant version of spec, for publication as CG Report/
14:43:06 [cmsmcq]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:43:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/11-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
14:44:25 [cmsmcq]
Action: John to write up his work on nonterminal renaming.
14:44:30 [cmsmcq]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:44:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/11-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
14:47:20 [Steven]
s/dicsuss/discuss/
14:47:57 [Steven]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:47:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/11-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:54:20 [cmsmcq]
Meeting: ixml Community Group call 11 April 2023
14:54:23 [cmsmcq]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:54:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/11-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq