10:06:36 RRSAgent has joined #wot 10:06:40 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-wot-irc 10:06:50 Mizushima has joined #wot 10:06:56 meeting: 7th WoT WG Meeting - Day 2 10:07:02 scribenick: Ege 10:08:40 ktoumura has joined #wot 10:08:59 topic: PRs 10:09:03 subtopic: PR 88 10:10:04 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Agenda_Session_7.2C_Day_1_-_Mar_22 10:10:07 mm: I will make a new PR with the parts that are not problematic 10:10:55 i|I will|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/88 PR 88 - Revised scope section, reordered, clarified language| 10:11:11 chair: McCool 10:11:25 mm: no, I will edit it in place 10:11:53 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima 10:12:38 ... let's look at suggested changes first 10:12:45 i|subtopic:|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-charter-drafts/wot-wg-2023-draft.html Draft Charter| 10:13:29 q+ 10:13:38 q+ 10:13:49 mm: the other part is the managed tds 10:13:49 ack e 10:14:18 present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura 10:14:28 ek: it is weird to say signing is a use case 10:15:00 kaz: Are you editing his PR? 10:15:24 mm: I will make a PR if I can 10:16:15 ack k 10:16:19 q+ 10:16:44 mm: we seem to have enough consensus 10:17:24 ack e 10:17:43 rrsagent, make log public 10:17:48 rrsagent, draft minuts 10:17:48 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minuts', kaz. Try /msg RRSAgent help 10:17:54 s/rrsagent, draft minuts// 10:18:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:18:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:18:26 ek: you need to merge the PR to his branch first though 10:18:43 mm: let's do a test 10:19:03 s/first/first,/ 10:19:50 i/we seem to have/kaz: We should discuss what would be the better description a bit more./ 10:20:01 i/We should/scribenick: kaz/ 10:20:20 i/we seem/scribenick: Ege/ 10:20:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:20:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:20:50 mm: ok we have a new PR now 10:22:40 mm: so I will add the signing to other work item 10:22:53 ek: This is looking good 10:23:03 mm: the diff is against michael's PR 10:23:15 present+ Michael_Lagally 10:23:50 q+ 10:24:14 mm: should we keep more or wider use case 10:24:19 ... additional sounds better 10:24:42 ... ege are you ok with using describe payloads 10:25:20 ack k 10:25:51 ek: we can say better describing payloads 10:26:55 mm: we are looking at the diff against your branch 10:27:03 ml: ok I see 10:27:28 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/96 PR 96 - Update wot-wg-2023-draft.html - scope PR 88 (modifying Lagally's proposed text) 10:27:44 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/96/e2a2cc1...93ab549.html diff 10:28:00 mm: scalable cloud events part was a commit merged already 10:29:09 q+ 10:29:13 ack k 10:29:22 ml: linting etc. are too technical 10:29:30 mm: ege are you ok to remove it? 10:29:38 ek: we can remove the whole yellow part 10:29:40 kaz: fine by me too 10:29:45 i/fine/scribenick: kaz/ 10:29:51 scribenick: Ege 10:30:59 ml: what is meant by external vocabularies? 10:31:15 mm: so that we can have them individual to protocols 10:31:36 q+ 10:32:39 ek: we can remove all technical details since it is for a wide audience and not todos for the WG anymore 10:33:09 ack k 10:34:02 kaz: could you explain your intention? 10:34:23 mlagally has joined #wot 10:34:30 ml: we want to have separate ontologies for security schemes so that they can be used in wot specs flexibly 10:35:30 sebastian has joined #wot 10:35:45 mm: is it ok to merge this PR? 10:35:52 ml: yes go ahead 10:35:55 s/PR?/PR 96?/ 10:36:21 (PR 96 merged) 10:36:53 (and going back to the original PR 88) 10:37:02 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/88 PR 88 - Revised scope section, reordered, clarified language 10:37:55 q+ 10:38:15 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/88/0dae730...b20754a.html diff 10:38:27 kaz: Let's quickly skim the diff to make sure 10:38:35 i/Let/scribenick: kaz/ 10:38:41 scribenick: Ege 10:38:55 (some merge conflicts there) 10:40:03 mm: we have refactored some things here 10:41:47 ... we seem to have some problems with github diff 10:44:04 ... let's find the next thing to merge 10:44:07 q+ 10:46:03 subtopic: PR 87 10:46:29 ml: the first part makes the language more precise 10:47:38 mm: I do not think that this new paragraph belongs here 10:48:00 ... you can put it at the top of the scope section 10:49:14 ml: I made some changes but they do not show up 10:49:42 mm: I would like to get this first paragraph changes about the enhancing the standards removed 10:49:49 ml: how do we enhance standards? 10:50:12 mm: for example with MQTT, we allow a way to have metadata 10:50:12 q+ 10:50:16 i|the first|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/87 PR 87 - Update wot-wg-2023-draft.html - Revised Introduction| 10:50:20 q- later 10:50:23 ack e 10:50:41 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/87/0dae730...04eddf7.html diff 10:50:44 q+ 10:51:01 ack e 10:51:12 q+ 10:51:34 ek: I think that the problem is the usage of model and what is meant by that 10:51:49 ml: like the information model, architecture model, discovery model 10:51:59 ek: so td is one information model? 10:52:11 ml: yes the initial information model in it 10:52:30 ack k 10:52:31 ... we are copying over the introduction from last ones. So it seems we are not changing anything 10:53:01 ... what is new for an initial reader? 10:53:27 kaz: I would like to stress the industry adoption 10:54:26 q+ 10:54:37 mm: we should use at least metamodel. People think that we are standardizing, e.g. a specific way to describe a washing machine 10:54:43 s/kaz: I would like to stress the industry adoption/kaz: I think "Common Model" here needs some more clarification. If that is "Thing Description and/or some potential extension", the original mission statement should be OK. On the other hand, we should explicitly mention that we'd like to consider actual industry adoption more for the next Charter period./ 10:54:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:54:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:55:44 sk: I understand what Michael Lagally intends. This can be easily misunderstood since even meta model implies models within meta models and this is criticism we see sometimes 10:56:27 q+ 10:56:32 ack mc 10:56:35 ack seb 10:56:48 mm: I think we should get rid of this paragraph 10:57:24 ack ml 10:57:51 ml: it would be better for a business people 10:57:53 q+ 10:58:36 ml: what are the major new things? 10:58:47 mm: we can have a separate PR for it and put it at the top of the scope 11:02:00 s/within meta models/within yet another meta model/ 11:02:07 I have to go 11:02:31 ack k 11:02:33 ack e 11:03:24 ek: Michael Lagally, do you want to make the charter more attractive and marketable? 11:03:34 q+ 11:03:44 ml: in a way yes, having more clear and crisp language that does not need context of the current work 11:04:37 mm: see you on monday 11:04:47 i/see/topic: Schedule for the Charter discussion/ 11:06:03 i/see/kaz: We need to confirm how to proceed. Cristiano and Daniel agreed to use the Scripting slot on Monday, March 27. So I'm wondering about the possibility of using the Security slot and the Discovery slot on Monday./ 11:06:27 i/see/mm: Right. Can sacrifice the Security call then./ 11:06:50 i/see/kaz: Thanks. Please send a reminder to the group lists to make sure./ 11:06:53 [adjourned] 11:07:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:07:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 11:07:33 i/We need/scribenick: kaz/ 11:07:40 i/see you/scribenick: Ege/ 11:07:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:07:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-wot-minutes.html kaz