12:03:06 RRSAgent has joined #wot-uc 12:03:10 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-irc 12:04:15 meeting: WoT Use Cases 12:05:09 chair: Lagally 12:06:47 https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/34554f1f-4033-474a-933d-ad4244f5a25b/20230314T080000 12:07:27 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Eg_Korkan, Luca_Barbato, Michael_McCool, Tomoaki_Mizushima 12:08:39 q+ 12:09:44 q- 12:10:12 Ege has joined #wot-uc 12:10:22 scribenick: Ege 12:10:25 topic: Minutes 12:10:33 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/03/07-wot-uc-minutes.html Mar-7 12:11:00 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_UseCase_WebConf#March_21st.2C_2023 12:11:28 ml: any objections? 12:11:41 ml: minutes are approved, thanks to scribes 12:12:12 topic: Contributions 12:13:30 present+ Changkyu_Lee 12:13:38 rrsagent, make log public 12:13:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:13:44 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz 12:13:53 CL: sorry I thought it was 1h later 12:14:03 ml: sorry for the confusion, it was a tooling issue 12:14:30 s/CL: sorry I thought it was 1h later// 12:14:41 s/ml: sorry for the confusion, it was a tooling issue// 12:15:00 subtopic: PR 205 12:15:00 subtopic: PR 205 12:15:06 s/subtopic: PR 205// 12:15:10 ml: this is what I have presented before 12:15:11 q+ 12:15:20 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/205 PR 205 - UC and requirement process - new WG charter 12:16:05 q+ 12:16:26 ack e 12:16:31 q- Eg_Korkan 12:16:41 present- Eg_Korkan 12:16:45 present+ Ege_Korkan 12:16:58 ek: Is this just your proposal? 12:17:08 ml: yes it was reviewed in the call 12:17:22 ek: I think we need to extract technical requirements much better 12:17:24 ml: I agree 12:17:43 kaz: the name of the PR is confusing, it is adding pdf files to repository. We have to agree on the procedure 12:18:02 ... that could be done as part of the WG Charter discussion 12:19:23 q+ 12:19:54 ack k 12:19:55 ack k 12:19:55 ack m 12:19:56 ack m 12:20:07 mm: let's just change the title 12:20:21 subtopic: PR 211 12:20:25 s/adding pdf files/adding PDF and PPTX we discussed before/ 12:20:33 s/to repo/to the repo/ 12:21:08 lb: This is about sifis home, a horizon europe project. It is about making smart home trustworthy 12:21:32 s/that could be done as part of the WG Charter discussion/that could be done as part of the WG Charter discussion but given the situation, we should concentrate on the WG Charter first and handle the Use Case generation policy separately./ 12:21:52 lb: the policies by the user can be enforced by the whole home 12:22:03 ... like never turning the oven at 3am 12:22:26 ... this is about labeling interactions with the right information about the hazards. what will you risk if you operate this device 12:22:30 s/We have to agree on the procedure/On the other hand, we still need to agree on the procedure to handle WoT use cases including ones from external developers like CG participants./ 12:22:53 ... it can be applied to other domains as well 12:23:10 s/change the title/change the title and merge this PR. Also continue to discuss the Use Case handling procedure separately./ 12:23:21 i/PR 211/kaz: agree/ 12:24:07 ... we define risks as well 12:24:14 i|This is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/pull/211 PR 211 - Hazard Annotation| 12:24:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:24:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz 12:25:01 ... you can also tell which operations run at the same time 12:26:12 ... also relationships between what an action will have based on a property value 12:26:14 present+ MunHwan_Choi 12:26:17 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:26:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz 12:26:55 q+ 12:28:07 ack m 12:28:12 mlagally has joined #wot-uc 12:28:17 ml: sometimes the risks depend on the context a lot, like speed limits in differet occasions 12:28:32 q+ 12:28:35 mm: not focusing on a solution before understanding the problem 12:28:41 mm: we have to look at interlocks 12:30:16 ... and it is going towards digital twins 12:30:25 ml: it is going towards system behavior as well 12:31:20 mm: also an interaction can be risky or combination of states 12:32:26 kaz: when we discuss use cases, we should think about the whole scenario from the user point of view. Then analyze from standardization aspect later on. So not prescribing the technical solution in the use case 12:33:02 ml: this PR is written from user point of view 12:33:15 kaz: we should describe the life cycle of the use case 12:34:17 ml: who sets the risks in TD? The manufacturer? 12:34:32 q+ 12:35:35 ack k 12:35:49 kaz: the description is too short in this use case 12:37:20 s/the description/the "Description" section/ 12:38:14 ek: I think we are being unfair about this PR since it is using the template which does not have requirements to be that long and there are use cases that are shorter than this 12:38:22 ml: what is the suggestion to be added to this PR 12:38:23 q? 12:38:29 ack e 12:38:49 q+ 12:38:55 s/in this use case/in this use case, and we should add clarification to the "Description" section including concrete scenario about "Hazard situation" a bit more before diving into the discussion on requirements on security, privacy, etc./ 12:39:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:39:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz 12:39:12 mm: we should define what is a hazard 12:39:18 mm: we need to put something like hazard annotation and avoidance 12:39:46 q+ 12:40:00 mm: it is a challenging problem 12:40:06 ... adding a list of subproblems 12:41:45 mm: is this enough input to improve this 12:43:06 q+ 12:43:47 ack e 12:44:42 ek: I think we need to write other documents to draw out the topic area as a whole, we should discuss this on this PR 12:45:24 ml: luca should decide, not about fairness 12:45:38 kaz: the title is weird, we should think of the use case 12:45:52 ack k 12:46:36 ml: let's add feedback into the PR as review comments 12:46:47 ... then we can have another look next week 12:47:09 lb: if I get that feedback, I can address them. 12:47:29 ... the use case is about annotation, otherwise the scope would be too big 12:48:04 s/As I mentioned, we need to think about the use case template and procedure itself a bit more. On the other hand of this PR itself, the title "Hazard Annotation" is a bit odd from my viewpoint. What is the actual need from the user's viewpoint? Hazard detection, hazard prevention or evacuation from a hazard?/ 12:48:49 q? 12:48:52 q+ 12:48:54 ack lu 12:48:56 ml: I understand about the scope being narrow 12:49:39 q+ 12:49:57 ... if these annotations can be a bit narrow, then the consumers can use them. This would enable a unique way of annotating 12:51:02 lb: hazard management might be another title 12:51:03 ack k 12:51:04 kaz: that would be good 12:51:12 mm: hazard management is good 12:51:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:51:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz 12:51:39 mm: if we think of categories, we should align with existing standards 12:52:40 s/the title is weird, we should think of the use case/@@@ to be substituted/ 12:52:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:52:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz 12:53:07 ml: with that we have 8 minutes 12:53:15 ml: so let's look at the other issues 12:54:24 q+ 12:54:28 topic: Issues 12:54:31 subtopic: Issue 195 12:54:41 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/issues/195 Issue 195 - Use cases for smart agriculture 12:55:52 q+ 12:55:52 ml: how can we distinguish them? 12:55:55 ack mc 12:57:34 ack k 12:58:01 kaz: @@@ 12:58:09 mm: could you explain the differences 12:58:34 ... what is the requirement that they are raising? 12:58:52 ml: is there a common requirement 12:59:01 s/@@@/milking and pest control would be good addition, so I'd agree we add those use cases. However, we should be careful about how many use cases to be described to each use case category./ 12:59:05 mm: it is good if a requirement is raised by multiple use cases 12:59:46 s/category./category. Probably this point should be also included in the Use Case Policy./ 12:59:57 ... so adding a line to template about what is distinct about this use case 13:00:04 s/could you/Right. Could you/ 13:00:21 present+ Sunghyun_Yoon 13:00:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:00:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz 13:02:03 q? 13:05:48 ml: aob? 13:05:53 ml: meeting adjurned 13:06:19 s/adju/adjou/ 13:06:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:06:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz 13:09:11 i/milking and pe/scribenick: kaz/ 13:09:21 i/explain the diff/scribenick: Ege/ 13:09:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:09:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz 15:03:44 Zakim has left #wot-uc 15:22:01 benfrancis has joined #wot-uc 15:22:15 kaz has joined #wot-uc 17:32:56 kaz has joined #wot-uc