10:00:02 RRSAgent has joined #wot 10:00:06 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-wot-irc 10:00:53 meeting: 6th WoT WG Charter Meeting - Day 3 10:01:18 chair: McCool 10:01:36 McCool has joined #wot 10:01:43 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Tomoaki_Mizushima 10:01:54 Mizushima has joined #wot 10:04:17 present+ Ege_Korkan 10:04:22 Ege has joined #wot 10:07:15 rrsagent, make log public 10:07:19 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:07:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:08:36 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura 10:09:01 ktoumura has joined #wot 10:09:07 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Agenda_Session_6.2C_Day_3_-_Mar_16 10:09:37 scribenick: kaz 10:09:50 topic: PRs 10:10:23 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pulls remaining PRs 10:11:02 mm: (quickly goes through the issues) 10:11:20 s/issues/PRs/ 10:11:39 https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/89 10:11:40 subtopic: PR 86 10:11:46 s/86/89/ 10:11:58 s/https/-> https/ 10:12:16 s/89/89 PR 89 - Add consumer description topics/ 10:12:50 q+ 10:13:07 mm: related to detailed work item 10:13:15 ... Ege, OK with closing this? 10:13:18 q? 10:14:40 kaz: as I've been suggesting, we could move this kind of technical problems to the other repo like wot-thing-description or simply wot 10:15:25 mm: maybe it would be better to close this PR itself, and then create another PR on concrete work item for the "detail" document 10:16:38 kaz: for the moment, that's fine 10:17:10 ... but we need to consider moving this kind of detailed technical discussion to other repos once the Charter discussion is done 10:17:16 mm: right 10:17:40 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/89#issuecomment-1471671923 McCool's comment 10:17:48 subtopic: PR 85 10:17:54 s/85/85 and 82/ 10:18:11 https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/82 10:18:42 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/85 PR 85 - Add Architecture as an informative deliverable 10:18:56 https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/16 10:19:16 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/82|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/82 PR 82 - Add Architecture as a normative deliverable| 10:19:31 mm: The bigger question is refactoring the specs in general 10:19:37 ... not only Architecture 10:19:55 ... we should work on the whole refactoring during the next Charter period 10:20:18 ... Sebastian has agreed on keeping the Architecture spec normative 10:20:38 ... so we can merge the PR 82 to make the Architecture spec normative 10:20:57 ... the question is making the scope section inline with the plan on refactoring as well 10:21:16 ek: ok 10:21:55 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/16|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/16 related Issue 16 - Architecture Restructuring| 10:22:09 q+ 10:23:07 ek: question about the procedure 10:24:33 kaz: as described by the Process document (and as I also mentioned during the calls), three steps: (1) Wide reviews, (2) W3M Review, and then (3) AC Review 10:24:35 ek: ok 10:25:27 s/Wide reviews/Wide reviews by TAG, I18N, A11Y, Security and Privacy based on the Strategy Funnel Issue/ 10:25:45 (PR 85 closed) 10:25:50 (PR 82 merged) 10:25:54 (Issue 16 closed) 10:26:38 present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura 10:27:04 subtopic: New PR on spec refactoring 10:27:28 mm: would like to create a dedicated PR to record the refactoring issue 10:28:10 ... (adds some text on spec refactoring to the "Scope" section" 10:28:29 s/section"/section)/ 10:28:39 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:28:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:30:15 q+ 10:31:49 ack k 10:32:52 kaz: I'm OK with this updated text within the Scope section 10:33:20 ... but we need to improve the Mission and the Motivation sections to lead to this refactoring goals 10:33:24 s/goals/goal/ 10:33:27 mm: right 10:33:49 q? 10:35:01 ... (directly commit the change to wot-wg-2023-draft.html wrongly, but that's OK) 10:35:23 -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-charter-drafts/wot-wg-2023-draft.html wot-wg-2023-draft.html 10:35:40 [[ 10:35:42 Update and Refactor Existing Specifications: 10:35:44 The WG will add new features, address issues discovered during implementation of already published specifications, and reorganize material between documents as appropriate. Unlike the last charter, these would not be limited to backward-compatible updates. 10:35:48 ]] 10:36:08 topic: Issues 10:36:19 subtopic: Issue 80 10:36:38 mm: marked with "Deferred" since it's not directly related to the Charter 10:36:56 subtopic: Issue 33 10:37:12 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/33 Issue 33 - TD and TM restructuring 10:37:32 mm: would like to mark with "Deferred" or close it 10:37:35 q+ 10:38:00 ... TD TF agreed to leave TM in the TD spec 10:38:14 (closed) 10:38:24 q- 10:39:29 subtopic: Issue 61 10:39:48 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/61 Issue 61 - High Level Scope Description for TD and Binding 10:39:52 mm: also should be closed 10:39:54 (closed) 10:40:27 subtopic: Issue 14 10:40:45 s/14/14 and 65/ 10:41:06 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/14 Issue 14 - Confusing use of the term "protocol binding" 10:41:39 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/65 Issue 65 - Move IG Relationship from Mission Statement to Collaboration 10:41:43 mm: can leave them oepn 10:41:45 s/oepn/ 10:41:50 s/them/them open/ 10:42:05 topic: PRs - revisited 10:42:10 subtopic: PR 66 10:42:29 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/66 PR 66 - Move IG mention to collaboration section 10:42:35 mm: two points here 10:42:52 [[ 10:42:52 Put WoT groups in a section of their own under collaborations 10:42:52 Move IG to the top, to emphasize its special status 10:42:53 ]] 10:42:59 mm: second part is easy 10:43:18 q+ 10:43:29 ... so we can merge the second part quickly 10:43:39 ... but need further discussion around the first point 10:43:56 ek: need further discussion 10:44:05 mm: ok, let's keep this open 10:44:15 ... and have discussion as Lagally as well 10:44:21 subtopic: PR 87 10:44:42 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/87 PR 87 - Update wot-wg-2023-draft.html - Revised Introduction 10:44:56 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/87/0dae730...04eddf7.html diff 10:45:05 mm: (goes through the diff) 10:46:27 ... have many problems with the proposed changes... 10:46:29 q? 10:46:31 q+ 10:46:42 ek: wondering about "Common Model" here 10:47:03 mm: there're various data models for IoT purposes like OneDM 10:47:21 ... but what we're doing is not really a "Common Data Model" 10:47:49 ... so don't think we can merge this as it is 10:48:21 ... next the Motivation section has proposed addition highlighted by yellow 10:48:37 ack e 10:49:42 kaz: agree 10:49:53 ... I'm OK with the original Mission section 10:50:28 ... also think the Motivation section should describe we'd like to tackle WoT deployment within the actual IoT scenarios and ecosystems 10:50:56 mm: yeah, the current proposed text for the Motivation section is just a summary of the Scope section 10:51:59 ... (adds some comments on PR 87) 10:52:44 s/agree/agree with McCool, though we do need improvement for the Mission and Motivation sections./ 10:53:17 s/I'm OK with the original Mission section/I'm personally OK with the original Mission statement./ 10:53:32 s/also think/but think/ 10:53:37 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:53:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:54:27 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/87#issuecomment-1471725979 McCool's comments to PR 87 10:54:48 subtopic: PR 88 10:55:04 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/88 PR 88 - Revised scope section, reordered, clarified language 10:55:21 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/88/0dae730...10b02d1.html diff 10:55:27 mm: (goes through the diff) 10:56:04 ... need some more improvement 10:56:14 ... maybe taking out the signing part, etc. 10:56:42 q+ 10:57:04 ... OK with the description within "Support New Use Cases" 10:57:07 q+ 10:58:02 kaz: you can add comments to PR 88 10:58:23 ... also we should clarify what "reusable external security vocabularies" 10:58:26 mm: yeah 10:58:37 ... anyway don't think we can merge this now 10:59:35 kaz: given we just have one more minute, we need to think about how to proceed now 10:59:49 mm: maybe we need one more week to finalize the Charter 11:00:06 ... small changes for Mission, Motivation and Scope 11:00:20 ... don't want to expect too many changes 11:00:23 ack k 11:00:45 kaz: which slot to be used for that discussion? 11:00:53 ... we should make an announcement to the group too 11:01:15 mm: would like to use the main call for that purpose 11:02:06 kaz: what about the Architecture call slot? 11:02:24 mm: would see the need during the main call 11:02:32 q? 11:02:35 ack e 11:03:25 ek: a bit concerned about "scalable events" 11:03:48 mm: let's have discussion including Lagally 11:03:55 [adjourned] 11:04:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:04:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-wot-minutes.html kaz 11:08:11 i|marked with "Deferred"|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/33 Issue 33 - TD and TM restructuring| 11:08:13 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:08:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:32:12 Zakim has left #wot