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13:07:12 <kaz> meeting: 4th WoT WG Charter Meeting - Day 2
13:07:46 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally, Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:07:48 <kaz> chair: McCool
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13:08:45 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:08:48 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:08:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/28-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:10:03 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
13:10:15 <kaz> topic: PRs
13:10:23 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pulls PRs
13:10:57 <kaz> mm: (goes through the list of PRs above)
13:11:19 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/66
13:11:25 <kaz> subtopic: PR 66
13:11:34 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/66 PR 66 - Move IG mention to collaboration section
13:11:39 <kaz> mm: (shows the diff)
13:11:54 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/66/4cef782...116eff5.html diff
13:12:15 <kaz> mm: it's kind of odd to have the description on the WoT IG within the mission section
13:12:26 <kaz> ... should have it under the collaboration section
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13:12:36 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato
13:12:51 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
13:13:03 <mlagally> q+
13:13:18 <kaz> ... would think about how to describe it later
13:13:35 <kaz> ml: process conversation several times on the WG and the IG
13:13:37 <kaz> ack ml
13:13:45 <kaz> ... preparation on the specs
13:14:01 <kaz> ... the current scope of the WoT IG is basically collecting use cases
13:14:15 <McCool> q+
13:14:32 <cris__> cris__ has joined #wot
13:14:39 <Ege> q+
13:14:45 <kaz> ... and this proposed change would formalize the collaboration as part of the collaboration in general
13:14:57 <kaz> mm: the question is related to the visibility
13:14:58 <kaz> q+
13:15:01 <kaz> ack mc
13:15:18 <kaz> ... not sure the process really belongs to the mission statement
13:15:41 <kaz> s/really/should really/
13:15:44 <kaz> ack e
13:16:55 <kaz> kaz: maybe we should describe the relationship among WoT-related groups a bit clearer at the top of "5. Coordination" section
13:16:58 <kaz> ack k
13:17:00 <kaz> mm: yeah
13:17:18 <kaz> ... any objection to merging this PR itself?
13:17:31 <kaz> ek: what about other W3C related groups?
13:17:55 <kaz> mm: potential improvements
13:18:07 <kaz> ... put WoT groups in a section of their own under collaboration
13:18:29 <kaz> ... move the WoT IG to the top and emphasize its special status
13:18:39 <kaz> ... then would move ahead
13:18:47 <kaz> (no objections)
13:18:48 <kaz> merged
13:18:54 <kaz> present+Michael_Koster
13:18:58 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
13:19:07 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
13:19:08 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Luca_Barbato, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Koster, Cristiano_Aguzzi
13:19:45 <kaz> s/merged//
13:20:10 <kaz> subtopic: PR 55
13:20:24 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/55 PR 55 - Reorganize and consolidate work items
13:20:44 <kaz> mm: not reflecting the discussion from yesterday's meeting
13:20:50 <kaz> ... Ege will work on improvement
13:20:52 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/46
13:20:55 <kaz> subtopic: PR 46
13:21:18 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/46 PR 46 - Update wot-wg-2023-draft.html: Adding digital twins
13:21:45 <mlagally> q+
13:21:51 <kaz> mm: still need discussion
13:22:00 <kaz> ack ml
13:22:08 <kaz> ml: quick comment
13:22:59 <kaz> ... general issues...
13:23:08 <kaz> mm: please read the comments on the PR 46
13:23:22 <kaz> ml: what is the final language?
13:23:48 <kaz> mm: bunch of changes by Ege, but no change with this line
13:24:24 <kaz> ... digital twins a part of new use cases
13:24:39 <kaz> ml: not really happy with that
13:24:47 <kaz> ... but ok with closing this PR itself
13:24:55 <kaz> mm: ok
13:24:57 <kaz> closed
13:25:04 <kaz> ml: just a side note
13:25:26 <kaz> ... comments from Ben around Digital Twins would be useful
13:25:39 <kaz> mm: we can look at it later
13:25:51 <kaz> subtopic: PR 55 - revisited
13:25:55 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/55
13:25:58 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
13:26:07 <kaz> present+ Ben_Francis
13:26:30 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/55 PR 55 - Reorganize and consolidate work items
13:26:39 <Ege> https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/7b69f009ea23dce736c5b8029483f3dc177ab27e/wot-wg-2023-draft.html
13:26:43 <kaz> mm: still a bit different?
13:26:53 <kaz> ek: please look at the above preview
13:27:22 <kaz> s/preview/preview to see the latest updates/
13:28:10 <kaz> mm: the scope section has been updated based on the discussion during yesterday's meeting
13:28:19 <kaz> ... would like to merge this if possible
13:28:49 <kaz> ... high-level items plus some of the additional descriptions here
13:28:56 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
13:28:56 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Luca_Barbato, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Koster, Cristiano_Aguzzi,
13:28:59 <Zakim> ... Ryuichi_Matsukura, Ben_Francis
13:29:13 <Ege> q+
13:29:18 <kaz> ml: question on "increase descriptiveness of TDs"
13:29:46 <mlagally> q+
13:29:54 <kaz> ek: this is what I've just added
13:30:12 <kaz> ... assuming websocket, etc.
13:30:17 <cris__> q+
13:30:21 <kaz> ack e
13:30:21 <cris__> qq+
13:30:38 <kaz> ... we can change the description if needed
13:30:42 <cris__> ack c
13:30:50 <kaz> mm: bunch of comments from Ben as well
13:31:01 <kaz> ek: have not checked all the comments yet
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13:31:25 <cris__> ack c
13:31:25 <Zakim> cris__, you wanted to react to Ege
13:31:30 <kaz> mm: let's handle the speaker queue first
13:31:34 <kaz> ack ml
13:31:57 <kaz> ml: just go back to the text
13:32:28 <kaz> [[
13:32:29 <kaz> Increase Descriptiveness of TDs:
13:32:29 <kaz> The WG will work on increasing the descriptive power of TDs to allow using them in more use cases. This includes describing dynamic resources, reusable connections, historical values (timeseries), repeating payloads, both static and dynamic geolocation information, manageable actions and more precise definitions of data schemas for each type of operation.
13:32:30 <kaz> ]]
13:32:41 <kaz> ml: some high-level scope on binding
13:32:57 <Ege> q+
13:33:06 <luca_barbato> q+
13:33:09 <kaz> mm: wondering about the process here
13:33:18 <kaz> ... bunch of changes here
13:33:26 <kaz> q+
13:33:39 <kaz> ... we can discuss each point one by one
13:34:02 <kaz> ack e
13:34:04 <benfrancis> q+
13:34:08 <cris__> q+
13:34:28 <kaz> ek: we're addressing the descriptiveness part
13:34:47 <kaz> ... would agree with McCool and think we should merge this PR for further discussion
13:34:48 <kaz> ack l
13:35:04 <kaz> lb: if we have agreement on these features
13:35:21 <kaz> ... any of those features we'll manage
13:35:40 <kaz> ... if they have enough consensus
13:36:00 <kaz> ... would agree with McCool to merge this for further discussion
13:36:05 <McCool> q?
13:37:11 <kaz> ack k
13:37:38 <kaz> kaz: we should once concentrate on the 6 major categories
13:37:40 <kaz> @@@
13:37:50 <kaz> bf: ok with merging this PR itself
13:37:51 <McCool> ack b
13:38:06 <kaz> ca: also fine with merging this PR itself
13:38:29 <Ege> please use https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/blob/f521e06bb97ba5eee19a58387ebda17b1977294c/wot-wg-2023-draft.html
13:38:49 <kaz> s/@@@/... my question is if we agree on the 6 major categories here. If so, we can merge this PR and then think about how to improve the descriptions later./
13:39:19 <kaz> mm: could work on text changes
13:39:37 <kaz> ... and agree with Kaz we should confirm we're OK with those 6 major categories
13:40:08 <kaz> ... (goes through the 6 major categories again)
13:40:11 <kaz> q?
13:40:13 <kaz> ack c
13:40:28 <kaz> q+
13:40:45 <kaz> ... Updates to existing specifications
13:40:53 <kaz> ... Support WoT Interoperability
13:41:01 <kaz> ... Improve Management of TDs
13:41:09 <kaz> ... Increase Descriptiveness of TDs
13:41:17 <kaz> ... Improve Security and Privacy
13:41:25 <kaz> ... New Use Cases
13:41:25 <luca_barbato> q+
13:42:32 <kaz> kaz: quite minor
13:42:47 <kaz> ... but should have consistent style for the title
13:42:47 <Ege> q+
13:42:52 <McCool> ack k
13:42:58 <kaz> mm: yeah, verb or noun
13:43:02 <kaz> ack l
13:43:25 <kaz> lb: we can even remove the ones already published
13:44:20 <kaz> ... regarding historical values (timeseries), what do we mean by that?
13:44:31 <kaz> mm: we could leave those points out
13:44:45 <kaz> ... let's see the updated rendering
13:44:55 <kaz> -> https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/blob/f521e06bb97ba5eee19a58387ebda17b1977294c/wot-wg-2023-draft.html updated rendering
13:45:04 <kaz> q?
13:45:07 <kaz> ack e
13:45:18 <kaz> ek: (explains the updated rendering)
13:45:43 <kaz> mm: not hearing those 6 major categories themselves
13:45:55 <kaz> ... so major objections to merge this PR itself?
13:45:56 <cris__> +1 for merging
13:45:57 <kaz> (none)
13:46:04 <kaz> s/none/no objections/
13:47:10 <kaz> merged
13:47:27 <kaz> mm: please provide actual text for further improvements
13:47:58 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/68
13:48:04 <kaz> ... (creates a new Issue on the style of the scope headers)
13:48:14 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:48:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:48:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/28-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:48:28 <kaz> subotopic: PR 41
13:48:29 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/41
13:48:37 <kaz> s/otopic/topic/
13:49:06 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/41|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/41 PR 41 - Expand WoT CG collaboration|
13:49:28 <kaz> mm: (looks at the changes)
13:50:30 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/41/files#diff-bb5a0dc2199e45f601c98b3a5a01ccf2c6d88347379b133530b1179568b2ad21 proposed policy.md
13:50:47 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/41/files#diff-9f8270d1c95442c38dfd4a48e6236cede38a77aec5f027798376e104ea168786 proposed Draft Charter
13:50:49 <kaz> q+
13:52:21 <kaz> mm: global community vs Japanese community
13:53:32 <kaz> ack k
13:53:46 <kaz> kaz: ok with the draft Charter change itself
13:53:59 <kaz> ... and agree we need to clarify the policy on the WoT CG's work
13:54:16 <kaz> ... However, the policy clarification still needs more discussion
13:54:31 <kaz> ... so would suggest we continue the policy discussion separately
13:54:34 <kaz> mm: right
13:54:50 <kaz> ... what about the Charter text itself?
13:55:00 <McCool> q?
13:55:00 <kaz> q?
13:55:03 <kaz> q+ Ege
13:55:07 <kaz> ek: ok
13:55:20 <kaz> s/ek: ok//
13:55:32 <kaz> ... would add "DRAFT" to the CG work policy document
13:55:34 <kaz> ek: ok
13:55:45 <kaz> mm: would merge the PR itself then
13:55:48 <kaz> (no objections)
13:56:07 <kaz> (some conflicts :( )
13:57:13 <kaz> mm: (resolves the conflicts)
13:57:41 <kaz> ... let's check if it renders properly
13:58:13 <kaz> ... (some problem with the link for the WoT IG, but can be fixed later)
13:58:15 <kaz> merged
13:58:26 <kaz> topic: Next steps
13:58:31 <kaz> mm: we're getting close
13:58:47 <kaz> ... would like to use the half of the main call for the Charter discussion tomorrow
13:59:04 <Ege> q+
13:59:09 <kaz> q+
13:59:55 <kaz> ek: quite a bit of issues there
14:00:06 <kaz> s/there/on the GitHub repo/
14:00:20 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues remaining issues
14:00:40 <kaz> mm: effects the Charter for review?
14:00:46 <kaz> ... or details?
14:01:32 <kaz> ... Michael Lagally, can we use the Architecture call for the Charter discussion?
14:01:43 <Ege> ack e
14:01:45 <kaz> ml: if needed
14:01:45 <Ege> q+
14:02:14 <kaz> kaz: in that case, we should use the whole one hour from the main call tomorrow
14:02:17 <kaz> mm: right
14:02:39 <kaz> ... let's assume two more hours this week, the main call tomorrow and the Architecture call on Thursday
14:03:30 <Ege> benfrancis, are you available wednesday 4pm CEST? in the td binding call we can discuss #14
14:03:35 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/14 : toy example comment to show PR
14:03:36 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:03:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/28-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:04:01 <kaz> s|benfrancis, are you available wednesday 4pm CEST? in the td binding call we can discuss #14||
14:04:02 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/14 : toy example comment to show PR
14:04:19 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/14 : toy example comment to show PR||
14:04:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:04:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/28-wot-minutes.html kaz
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