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14:45:33 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:45:34 <Zakim> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
14:45:46 <jeanne> agenda+ Next week in AG
14:45:54 <jeanne> zakim, clear agenda
14:45:54 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:46:02 <jeanne> agenda+ next week in AG
14:46:21 <jeanne> agenda+ review suggestions from COGA task force to the Writing Process document
14:46:34 <jeanne> agenda+ Start the Exploratory section
14:48:15 <jeanne> present:
14:48:21 <jeanne> present+ jeanne
14:48:27 <jeanne> chair: jeanne
14:48:36 <jeanne> regrets+ Shawn
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15:00:55 <uxjennifer> present+
15:01:02 <Lauriat> Present+
15:01:34 <ToddL> present+
15:02:39 <jeanne> chair: jeanne & Shawn
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15:03:32 <Makoto> present+
15:04:56 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 1
15:04:56 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- next week in AG -- taken up [from jeanne]
15:05:11 <luis> jeanne: next week in AGWG. three things WCAG3 related
15:05:14 <jeanne>      *   CSUN Face to Face meeting attendance Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/CSUN-Face-To-Face/
15:05:14 <jeanne>      *   Guideline Grouping Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/guideline-org/
15:05:14 <jeanne>      *   Discussion about Requiring vs. Encouraging
15:06:34 <luis> .. any of the chairs want to add anything to this?
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15:06:51 <Wilco_> present+
15:06:56 <jeanne> Surveys opening this week closing next week:
15:06:56 <jeanne>   *   Questions on Editor's Draft Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/draft-revew-Feb-23/
15:07:02 <luis> .. there's another survey opening soon
15:07:27 <luis> .. Michelle has been taking the comments from two weeks ago and updating the draft. This is the survey for the new work
15:07:31 <luis> .. any questions?
15:07:35 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
15:07:35 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- review suggestions from COGA task force to the Writing Process document -- taken up [from jeanne]
15:08:44 <luis> ... I had a meeting with members of COGA. They're also working on a guideline for error prevention. And they're working on one for clear language.
15:08:57 <luis> ... here's the main document
15:09:06 <jeanne> Writing Process with Maturity Levels ->
15:09:11 <jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zW-UubALQOCokCoLnIuQrnGNKLm2uHi36S8yhAojrIE/edit#
15:09:55 <luis> ... the first thing that they asked is that we change "efficient" in the goals section because it has different meanings in different contexts. They wanted us to clarify it. Any ideas?
15:10:39 <luis> ...I think the context of this was "easy to implement" but we don't want to say "easy" because it's not easy. Maybe "clear" would work better.
15:10:55 <Lauriat> q+ to ask about evolving technology
15:11:04 <uxjennifer> "Define guidance and methods that are clear and efficient to implement"
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15:11:53 <luis> lauriat: one of the considerations for evolving technologies was difficulty and barrier to implementation. For some of those, they have become easier over time. I think not "efficient" or "easy" but maybe something on the "understandable" spectrum might work.
15:11:54 <uxjennifer> prudent?
15:12:02 <kirkwood> effort
15:12:06 <ToddL> q+
15:12:06 <Chuck_> q+
15:12:11 <luis> jeanne: what about "reduce barriers to implementation?"
15:12:16 <Chuck_> ack lau
15:12:16 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask about evolving technology
15:12:16 <Lauriat> ack me
15:12:19 <jeanne> ack laur
15:12:20 <Lauriat> ack ToddL
15:12:21 <jeanne> ack todd
15:12:44 <luis> toddl: a couple of ideas...maybe "adequate" or "appropriate" instead of "efficient"
15:13:30 <jeanne> ack ch
15:13:38 <Azlan> present+
15:13:50 <luis> chuck_: I like jeans "reduce the barriers." I think that's closest to what we had in mind at the time.
15:14:41 <luis> jeanne: I think we were looking at problems identified that said the SC were difficult to understand and translate into other languages.
15:15:01 <luis> ... maybe it's not about implementation, but about clear and understandable in multiple languages
15:15:02 <Chuck_> q+
15:15:04 <Lauriat> q+
15:15:10 <Chuck_> Ack ch
15:15:30 <ToddL> q+
15:15:35 <Makoto> q+
15:15:51 <luis> chuck_: I don't want to get rid of the implementing. I recall that being a big part of the topic. I want to keep implementing in there.
15:16:42 <luis> lauriat: I think one of the reasons implementation doesn't necessarily belong is because it's more guidance on user needs and usability as opposed to implementation itself. We will have things that will help that.
15:16:56 <Chuck_> +1 with Jeanne and Shawn, I'm convinced
15:17:08 <luis> ... as an example we'll have guidance where there isn't clear implementation as far as "content authors" but there may be other opportunities for AT or other technologies to fill that gap
15:17:11 <Lauriat> ack me
15:17:13 <Lauriat> ack ToddL
15:17:37 <luis> toddl: if we're leaving "implement" in, maybe "suitable" or "sufficient?"
15:18:11 <Lauriat> ack Makoto
15:18:35 <Chuck_> q+ to echo that i'm now agreeing that we can focus less on "implementation", that the user needs are the primary focus
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15:19:13 <luis> makoto: we've had challenges translating the other SCs because those documents and techniques are harder to translate into Japanese. So "easy to understand" is a point we should emphasize as a goal
15:19:17 <janina> present+
15:19:18 <kirkwood> +1
15:19:23 <Lauriat> ack Chuck_
15:19:23 <Zakim> Chuck_, you wanted to echo that i'm now agreeing that we can focus less on "implementation", that the user needs are the primary focus
15:19:47 <luis> chuck_: agreed
15:20:07 <Lauriat> qv?
15:20:37 <Lauriat> q+ to note where to specify implementation
15:21:46 <Chuck_> +1
15:21:50 <Lauriat> ack me
15:21:50 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to note where to specify implementation
15:21:55 <luis> lauriat: I don't think we need to get rid of it entirely, but it should be specific to the guidance which should be clear and understandable. And the methods should be clear and understandable and also easier to understand and meet the guidance.
15:21:58 <ToddL> +1 with Makoto, Chuck_ & Lauriat
15:22:25 <Makoto> +1 to Shawn
15:23:49 <ToddL> q+
15:24:11 <luis> janina: maybe work in that techniques are technology specific
15:24:19 <luis> lauriat: that's not necessariliy always the case
15:24:34 <luis> jeanne: and there is a push in AGWG to include some that are generic
15:24:37 <Lauriat> ack ToddL
15:26:19 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
15:26:19 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Start the Exploratory section -- taken up [from jeanne]
15:27:06 <Chuck_> The remainder of the meeting is a working session, and does not require scribing.
15:27:06 <luis> jeanne: the rest of the meeting is going to be working in the error prevention document
15:27:25 <jeanne> Error Prevention Draft -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jtZaUzLi-jgmGdAypRUeJPzVz_ZUpMO0wdOrORiuO7w/edit#heading=h.fbuc9jpnkck2
15:34:39 <Lauriat> q+
15:34:51 <Chuck_> q+
15:34:58 <ToddL> q+
15:35:32 <Lauriat> ack me
15:35:42 <Lauriat> ack Chuck_
15:36:11 <Lauriat> ack ToddL
15:37:20 <Lauriat> q+ to note outreach to stakeholders & partners for this kind of work
15:38:22 <ToddL> +1
15:39:13 <Lauriat> ack me
15:39:13 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to note outreach to stakeholders & partners for this kind of work
15:42:18 <Lauriat> q+ to note the illustrative aspect
15:44:01 <Lauriat> ack me
15:44:01 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to note the illustrative aspect
15:45:44 <jeanne> Errors User Needs Summary -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mTrr0hSsQrApmC4N0tF4fQOF-PiLsK-FNZproi7WQcA/edit#
15:50:27 <kirkwood> changing to only “notification” gets rid of the “guidance” part, no? i guess it was eliminated?
15:52:47 <Chuck_> q+
15:52:57 <Lauriat> q+ to ask about redundancy, severity, etc. of errors
15:53:05 <Lauriat> ack Chuck_
15:53:22 <kirkwood> makes sense
15:53:59 <Chuck_> q+
15:54:46 <Lauriat> ack me
15:54:46 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask about redundancy, severity, etc. of errors
15:54:47 <ToddL> q+
15:55:14 <maryjom> regrets+ Mary Jo Mueller
15:55:18 <Lauriat> ack ToddL
15:55:57 <Lauriat> ack Chuck_
15:56:27 <Lauriat> +1 to Chuck_, maybe a good question of where to note things as they come to mind?
15:57:49 <Lauriat> +1, incredibly well thought out!
15:59:51 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/24-silver-minutes.html jeanne
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