11:01:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
11:01:35 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-irc
11:03:23 <kaz> meeting: 3rd WoT WG Charter Meeting - Day 2
11:03:45 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Luca_Barbato, Michael_Lagally
11:03:53 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot
11:04:26 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot
11:05:19 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:05:28 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:05:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:05:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:07:13 <kaz> scribenick: luca_barbato
11:07:41 <ryuichi> ryuichi has joined #wot
11:07:59 <kaz> q+
11:09:02 <kaz> ack k
11:10:36 <kaz> topic: Organization
11:11:32 <kaz> kaz: we can quickly skim the existing PRs on wot-charter-drafts, but if some of them describes too much detail, we should rather concentrate on the mission, scope, deliverables, etc., within the draft Charter itself.
11:11:40 <kaz> i/we can/scribenick: kaz/
11:11:47 <luca_barbato> topic: PR42 - Mission statement
11:11:47 <kaz> scribenick: luca_barbato
11:11:49 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/42/files
11:12:47 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/42.html Preview
11:13:09 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/42/c8b641e...e3cd8f0.html Diff
11:13:33 <kaz> q+
11:13:55 <kaz> mm: (goes through the proposed changes)
11:13:57 <kaz> q?
11:14:32 <luca_barbato> kaz: The mission statement should provide the mission of the WG
11:15:04 <luca_barbato> ... it should be more terse
11:16:46 <luca_barbato> ... we should think about what we want to do for the new charter period
11:17:04 <McCool> q?
11:17:09 <kaz> ack k
11:17:25 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot
11:18:04 <luca_barbato> mm: We are clarifying the mission statement but not changing it
11:18:54 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster, Ege_Korkan
11:18:55 <luca_barbato> kaz: We do not put too many details in the mission about the building blocks
11:19:25 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:19:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:19:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:19:36 <luca_barbato> kaz: we can use a bullet point list to avoid making the statement too verbose
11:19:47 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html
11:19:54 <kaz> s|https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html||
11:20:00 <kaz> chair: McCool
11:20:15 <luca_barbato> mm: We can do incremental improvements, let's merge the PR and iterate over
11:20:17 <kaz> i/goes through/scribenick: kaz/
11:20:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:20:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:20:41 <kaz> i/The mission sta/scribenick: luca_barbato/
11:20:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:20:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:21:21 <luca_barbato> ege: I can rebase the PR
11:22:23 <Ege> q+
11:22:58 <kaz> q+
11:23:02 <luca_barbato> mm: (overall description of the PR)
11:23:43 <luca_barbato> ege: The term Ecosystem is open for rewording
11:23:53 <kaz> i|overall|topic: PR 40 - Binding|
11:24:14 <kaz> i|overall|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/40 PR 40 - Simplify the binding mechanism|
11:24:18 <kaz> ack e
11:24:21 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:24:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:24:29 <mlagally_> mlagally_ has joined #wot
11:24:29 <luca_barbato> topic: PR 40 - Binding
11:25:21 <kaz> s/topic: PR 40 - Binding//
11:25:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:25:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:25:46 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/40/c8b641e...4eaa469.html Diff
11:26:37 <kaz> q?
11:26:42 <luca_barbato> mm: if we say standards it conflicts with de-factor standards
11:26:56 <kaz> s/factor/facto/
11:27:01 <luca_barbato> ... also platforms may not fit completely
11:27:08 <luca_barbato> ... ecosystem is more encompassing
11:27:52 <luca_barbato> kaz: the binding template core document may be included in the main TD document
11:28:00 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/62
11:28:26 <luca_barbato> mm: we also discussed about publishing all the the spec in one go
11:28:29 <kaz> s/the binding/Note that there was some discussion during the TD call yesterday, and the binding/
11:29:00 <luca_barbato> mm: but lets focus on merging the current PRs first
11:29:02 <kaz> s/we also/That would actually make sense. We also/
11:29:05 <kaz> ack k
11:29:16 <luca_barbato> mm: Objections on merging?
11:29:35 <luca_barbato> ml: I want to see the overall look first
11:29:58 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/62|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/62 see also the related issue 62 - Moving the core binding document into the TD|
11:30:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:30:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:30:39 <Ege> q+
11:30:39 <luca_barbato> ml: Are the separate binding documents also normative?
11:30:42 <luca_barbato> ege: The separate binding documents are not REC
11:31:15 <kaz> s/main TD document/main TD document. So we should think about how to deal with the Binding Templates spec (i.e., core part vs protocol-specific parts)./
11:31:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:31:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:31:24 <luca_barbato> ... the main binding document is providing the requirements so it is normative
11:31:42 <luca_barbato> q+
11:31:56 <kaz> q+
11:32:04 <luca_barbato> ml: who is going to provide the individual bindings?
11:32:27 <McCool> q+
11:32:36 <luca_barbato> ege: The individual bindings can be provided by the third party, but in order to fit the registry there are requirements
11:32:41 <McCool> ack e
11:33:20 <kaz> lb: just to be clear, the idea is we can have individual binding for something
11:33:32 <kaz> ... and we define some rules based on vocabulary
11:33:56 <kaz> ... to support interoperability for implementations using some registry
11:34:16 <kaz> ... the specific entry within the registry should be compatible for the developers
11:34:20 <kaz> ek: right
11:34:26 <kaz> present+ Ben_Francis
11:34:31 <kaz> q?
11:34:33 <kaz> ack l
11:35:26 <luca_barbato> kaz: binding templates should be included in the main TD document according to yesterday discussion
11:35:56 <luca_barbato> kaz: The normative part could be included in the main TD document
11:36:15 <mlagally_> q+
11:36:33 <luca_barbato> mm: (updates the comment to the PR)
11:36:37 <kaz> ack k
11:37:19 <luca_barbato> mm: We should explain that the individual bindings are vetted before entering the registry
11:37:38 <luca_barbato> ... we should clarify the binding mechanism
11:38:22 <luca_barbato> ml: Architecture can contain the binding mechanism description
11:38:29 <kaz> s/binding templates should be included in the main TD document according to yesterday discussion/Given the situation so far including the discussion during the TD call yesterday, the first sentence here (what Binding Templates does) is OK, but the second sentence should rather say (1) there is a possibility of making the Binding Templates spec back into the TD spec and (2) concrete protocol-specific vocabulary should be defined in an informative manner./
11:38:51 <Ege> q+
11:39:02 <luca_barbato> mm: Clarify as binding policy and its mechanism
11:39:41 <luca_barbato> ml: the policy should be in the Architecture, the mechanism in the TD
11:39:42 <kaz> s/The normative part could be included in the main TD document/However, we need to make decision on which way to go, (a) Binding Template as part of TD or (b) a separate normative deliverable, before submitting this Charter to the AC review./
11:39:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:39:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:40:17 <kaz> i/just to be/scribenick: kaz/
11:40:20 <McCool> ack m
11:40:20 <luca_barbato> mm: The technical details should be in the TD document
11:40:22 <McCool> ack m
11:40:27 <kaz> i/Given/scribenick: luca_barbato/
11:40:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:40:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:40:54 <luca_barbato> ege: The mechanism has to be normative
11:41:11 <benfrancis> +1 Architecture should be informative
11:41:31 <kaz> q+
11:41:54 <Ege> ack e
11:42:13 <kaz> ack k
11:42:16 <luca_barbato> mm: The PR should be reworked again before merging it
11:42:33 <kaz> kaz: agree we should wait for further clarification
11:42:41 <luca_barbato> topic: Issue Review
11:42:43 <kaz> i/agree/scribenick: kaz/
11:42:53 <kaz> scribenick: luca_barbato
11:44:27 <benfrancis> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/46
11:45:21 <kaz> s/topic: Issue Review/topic: PR 46 - Digital Twins/
11:45:43 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/46|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/46 PR 46 - Update wot-wg-2023-draft.html: Adding digital twins|
11:45:57 <luca_barbato> mm: My overall feeling is still too broad as work item category
11:46:12 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/46/071e115...ac18248.html Diff
11:46:16 <luca_barbato> ... lots of overlap with other work items
11:46:28 <luca_barbato> ... needs to be focused
11:46:37 <kaz> q+
11:46:53 <luca_barbato> ... shadowing service and linking as separate work items
11:46:57 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot
11:47:05 <mjk> q?
11:47:13 <mlagally_> q+
11:47:29 <luca_barbato> kaz: we should not put detailed items in the scope section
11:48:06 <luca_barbato> ... can we imply those use-cases in other work items
11:48:37 <benfrancis> q+
11:48:42 <kaz> ack k
11:48:57 <luca_barbato> mm: Move the details to the summery and keep the work items as bullet point list
11:49:51 <luca_barbato> ben: digital twin is more a marketing term, better to focus on the underlying requirements
11:49:56 <mlagally_> q+
11:50:08 <kaz> ack ml
11:50:09 <kaz> ack b
11:50:14 <kaz> q+ mlagally_
11:50:14 <mlagally_> q+
11:50:29 <kaz> q+
11:50:42 <luca_barbato> ml: It is more than a marketing term, there is enough material around the concept
11:50:43 <McCool> q+
11:51:04 <Ege> q+
11:51:09 <luca_barbato> ml: I belive it is important to use the term
11:51:12 <mlagally_> ack m
11:51:16 <mlagally_> ack ml
11:52:05 <McCool> qq+
11:52:09 <McCool> ack k
11:52:13 <luca_barbato> kaz: We maybe need more discussion, the term is used in the use-case documents
11:53:01 <luca_barbato> mm: Concern that the term has a very broad definition
11:53:50 <luca_barbato> ... Add in the summary section a list of specific features within the scope of digital twins
11:53:55 <McCool> q?
11:53:58 <McCool> ack m
11:53:58 <Zakim> McCool, you wanted to react to mlagally_
11:54:29 <luca_barbato> ege: (agrees in moving the term up)
11:54:48 <luca_barbato> ml: ask for consensus
11:55:02 <luca_barbato> mm: let's expand in the details document
11:56:24 <kaz> s/the term is used in the use-case documents/but from my viewpoint, "Digital Twins" is a possible use case for WoT as already described in the WoT Use Cases document. Also (as already I suggested) it would be better to remove the detailed topic descriptions from the Scope section and put a summary list like McCool did. The question is if the summary list covers a use case like Digital Twins./
11:56:45 <luca_barbato> mm: remove the detailed work item list from the charter and consolidate in the detail document
11:56:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:56:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:57:14 <kaz> q+
11:57:26 <luca_barbato> ml: work on it now
11:57:36 <luca_barbato> mm: (prepares the PR)
11:57:46 <benfrancis> q+
11:58:07 <kaz> ack e
11:58:54 <kaz> ack k
11:59:07 <luca_barbato> kaz: We should clarify where each work items belong in the detail document
11:59:20 <kaz> s/each work items/each work item/
11:59:55 <luca_barbato> ben: Make sure the charter document won't be too small
12:00:13 <luca_barbato> ... the detail document must be reviewed and updated
12:00:26 <kaz> s/belong/belongs to (e.g., actual WG work items, potential use case areas, survey on the other standards)/
12:00:48 <kaz> s/document/document, but that clarification should be done separately later./
12:00:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:00:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:01:08 <luca_barbato> mm: Ask Ege to rebase the PR
12:01:14 <Ege> q+
12:01:21 <kaz> ack b
12:01:23 <Ege> ack b
12:01:29 <luca_barbato> topic: Next steps
12:01:44 <luca_barbato> mm: Use Discovery and Use-Case slots next week?
12:01:55 <luca_barbato> ml: Ok in using Use-Case slot.
12:02:15 <kaz> s/Ok in/OK with/
12:02:16 <luca_barbato> mm: Rebase and make the pending PR ready to merge
12:02:29 <kaz> q?
12:02:31 <kaz> ack e
12:02:44 <kaz> q+
12:04:01 <luca_barbato> ege: I need clarification on what should be described in the two documents about binding templates in Architecture and TD
12:04:13 <kaz> ack k
12:05:16 <kaz> kaz: We need to make decision on how to deal with the WoT Binding Templates spec itself (=as part of TD or a separate normative spec), then generate concrete text accordingly./
12:05:30 <kaz> s|y./|y.|
12:05:33 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:05:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:05:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:06:07 <kaz> i/We need/scribenick: kaz/
12:06:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:06:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz