13:00:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
13:00:35 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/02/21-wot-irc
13:00:54 <kaz> meeting: 3rd WoT WG Meeting
13:01:21 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Michael_McCool
13:01:32 <Ege> The link is wrong still
13:01:56 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot
13:02:33 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally
13:04:27 <mlagally> mlagally has joined #wot
13:05:17 <luca_barbato_> luca_barbato_ has joined #wot
13:06:12 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato, Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:06:47 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Agenda_Session_3.2C_Day_1_-_Feb_21
13:07:04 <mlagally> scribenick: mlagally
13:07:31 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot
13:07:32 <mlagally> ml: I reviewed issues and PRs
13:07:43 <mlagally> ... let's review them, most are pretty simple
13:07:44 <ktoumura> ktoumura has joined #wot
13:07:52 <kaz> i/I reviewed/topic: Review issues, PRs and Status/
13:07:56 <kaz> s/ml:/mm:/
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13:08:20 <mlagally> issue #51
13:08:21 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/51 : updated old JSON-LD context
13:08:26 <kaz> q+
13:08:59 <mlagally> mmc: I did a major cleanup
13:09:01 <kaz> ack k
13:09:14 <mlagally> kaz: There are also many issues on the wot repo
13:09:37 <mlagally> mmc: let's review after this one
13:09:56 <kaz> s/repo/repo. We should clean them up before starting the discussion on further updates on the wot-charter-drafts side./
13:10:07 <mlagally> ... this is a cleanup for rendering
13:10:17 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/51
13:10:41 <mlagally> ... any objection to merge (none)
13:10:46 <mlagally> (merged)
13:11:02 <kaz> i/issue #51/subtopic: Issue 51/
13:11:05 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/51 : updated old JSON-LD context
13:11:09 <mlagally> topic: issues in WoT repo
13:11:19 <mlagally> mmc: multiple were moved
13:11:44 <mlagally> ... let's review those that are marked as WG New Charter Plans 2023"
13:11:56 <mlagally> s/WG/"WG/
13:12:12 <mlagally> ... we can close these that were moved
13:12:22 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/51|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/51 PR 51 - Details cleanup|
13:12:46 <mlagally> kaz: you can ask submitters if they were moved
13:12:56 <kaz> s/subtopic: Issue 51/subtopic: PR 51/
13:13:08 <mlagally> mmc: I believe we are already done with these
13:13:20 <mlagally> q+
13:13:43 <mlagally> ... I think we also moved the PR
13:15:19 <kaz> i|multiple were|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/labels/WG%20New%20Charter%20Plans%202023 issues and PRs on the wot repo with "WG New Charter Plans 2023" label|
13:15:47 <mlagally> ... I'll close all of these, if you feel that it was incorrect, please reopen and bring it up in the main call tomorrow
13:15:50 <kaz> ack ml
13:15:58 <kaz> s/mm:/mmc:/
13:16:03 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:16:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:16:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/21-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:16:18 <mlagally> ... If there are any further issues, please bring them up in tomorrow's main call
13:17:01 <kaz> chair: McCool
13:17:03 <mlagally> s/reopen/open a new issue/
13:17:22 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Jan_Romann
13:17:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:17:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/21-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:17:37 <kaz> s/The link is wrong still//
13:17:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:17:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/21-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:17:50 <kaz> i/issue #51//
13:17:51 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/51 : updated old JSON-LD context
13:18:13 <mlagally> mmc: there are two PRs that are solving the same issue wrt. privacy and accessibility
13:18:30 <kaz> s/issue #51//
13:18:31 <kaz> s/issue #51//
13:18:34 <mlagally> ... we could remove them both or modify the description
13:18:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:18:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/21-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:18:57 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/51 : updated old JSON-LD context
13:18:58 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/51 : updated old JSON-LD context
13:18:59 <Ege> +1 to for in addition to hz review
13:19:39 <Ege> q+
13:19:41 <kaz> q+
13:19:43 <dape> q+
13:19:50 <mlagally> q+
13:20:01 <kaz> ack e
13:20:31 <mlagally> kaz: what is added to this PR - any specific text for a11y?
13:20:38 <mlagally> s/to/with/
13:20:39 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/45
13:21:19 <mlagally> mmc: we should only mention these groups if we do more than horizontal review
13:21:30 <mlagally> ... trying to be consistent with what we do for PING
13:21:56 <mlagally> kaz: if we want stronger collaboration that would be great, however the text could be improved
13:22:09 <mlagally> mmc: was copied from last charter
13:22:12 <Ege> +1 to ka
13:22:26 <mlagally> kaz: we might need another improvement to the text
13:22:48 <mlagally> mmc: let's merge and ask the a11y group for suggestions on improved text
13:23:09 <mlagally> kaz: we have to get review by these groups, we can ask for their comments even earlier
13:23:10 <Ege> q+
13:23:14 <kaz> ack k
13:24:08 <mlagally> dape: Those groups are in the W3C process, why do we mention them at all? Charter could be shorter
13:24:17 <kaz> q+
13:24:58 <kaz> ack d
13:25:00 <kaz> ack ml
13:25:13 <mlagally> ml: shorter is better
13:25:59 <mlagally> ege: horizontal review is only at the end of publication period, feedback at the end may be too late
13:26:09 <mlagally> ... what about i18n?
13:27:29 <mlagally> mmc: if we work poractively with these groups, we should mention it
13:27:49 <kaz> [[
13:27:52 <mlagally> kaz: these days, those 4 horizontal groups are default groups for collaboration in the W3C
13:27:59 <kaz> In addition to the above catch-all reference to horizontal review which includes accessibility review, please check with chairs and staff contacts of the Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group to determine if an additional liaison statement with more specific information about concrete review issues is needed in the list below.
13:28:02 <mlagally> ... there's a specifc note about tzhat in the tempalte
13:28:06 <kaz> ]]
13:28:17 <mlagally> s/tempalte/template/
13:28:50 <mlagally> ... if we think about stronger a11y support that's great, but we should have preliminary discussion with them and ask them how to handle it
13:29:30 <mlagally> mmc: if we start horizontal reviews early, we still need a document to review
13:29:58 <mlagally> kaz: we should talk with these groups and discuss what to do in the charter
13:30:24 <mlagally> mmc: I suggest we merge the text and work proactively with these groups
13:30:38 <mlagally> ... suggest we merge the text
13:31:23 <mlagally> ... before we call this done, we should have it reviewed by these groups. will keep the issue open
13:32:48 <mlagally> ... will close idssue#49 w/o merge
13:33:01 <mlagally> s /idss/iss/
13:33:27 <kaz> q+
13:33:35 <mlagally> topic: merge request: #54
13:33:36 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/54 : Update JSON-LD context
13:33:38 <kaz> ack e
13:33:58 <mlagally> ege: I fixed the title
13:34:20 <mlagally> ... there is some overlapping text
13:34:33 <mlagally> mmc: I have another PR that modifies the background section
13:34:56 <mlagally> ... we don't want to change the template, this belongs into our draft
13:35:24 <Ege> q+
13:35:36 <McCool> q?
13:35:39 <McCool> ack k
13:35:49 <mlagally> kaz: when I raised the issue about meeting title, I suggested to better describe our intentions
13:35:58 <mlagally> ... mission and basic policy
13:36:20 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/54 PR 54 - Motivation and background title
13:36:33 <mlagally> mmc: if we don't add the header, the table will be split - this cleans up the section headers
13:37:07 <kaz> i|54|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/48 Issue 54 - Motivation and Background|
13:37:10 <mlagally> ... this is a bug fix.
13:37:12 <mlagally> (merged)
13:38:17 <mlagally> mmc: we were doing bottom up collection of work items, Kaz suggested top down
13:39:02 <mlagally> ... we have two choices: delete all details, take them to a separate document, or keep them.
13:39:04 <mlagally> q+
13:39:12 <kaz> q+
13:39:19 <Ege> q-
13:39:21 <Ege> q+
13:40:19 <kaz> ack ml
13:41:45 <mlagally> ml: there are too many details in this section, the second part could be condensed into a single paragraph. The first part of the scope serction is fine.
13:42:25 <mlagally> kaz: I agree with both of you
13:43:30 <mlagally> ... we can think about adding new features about wider industry collaboration
13:44:11 <mlagally> ... it would be nicer to link discovery, geolocation , onboarding with wider topics
13:45:15 <kaz> ack k
13:45:15 <mlagally> mmc: this is good enough to start the AC review
13:45:17 <mlagally> q?
13:46:17 <mlagally> ege: I have a pull request about 3 other items, I'm ok with the current text, but it misses binding templates
13:46:17 <mlagally> q+
13:46:59 <mlagally> ... I agree with adding this part, however don't agree with the content
13:46:59 <kaz> s/to link discovery, geolocation , onboarding with wider topics/to describe the relationship between the major bullet points above and the detailed items below if we want to keep the detailed items./
13:47:15 <kaz> ack e
13:47:54 <mlagally> ml: this discussion is premature, we first have to define the scope
13:48:24 <kaz> q+
13:48:26 <kaz> ack ml
13:49:07 <mlagally> mmc: any objection to merge, we can always refine this later.
13:50:24 <mlagally> ... I commented out details about plugfests and open source implementations - we can always bring it back
13:50:56 <kaz> ack k
13:50:57 <mlagally> kaz: I like to agree with McCool, Lagally and Ege, suggest we merge this PR and think about improvements next
13:51:12 <kaz> s/impr/further impr/
13:53:11 <mlagally> topic: PR #55
13:53:14 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/55 : @id/@vocab issue
13:53:52 <mlagally> ege: I restructured the description significantly
13:54:33 <mlagally> mmc: We have several topics such as onboarding and geolocation - we need a normative security deliverable
13:54:42 <benfrancis> q+
13:54:52 <mlagally> ... I put this normative work item into architecture
13:55:00 <kaz> i|I restru|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/55 PR 55 - Reorganize and consolidate work items|
13:55:35 <Ege> q+
13:55:40 <mlagally> ... if we want a prescriptive onboarding process and also normative security requirements, we can use architecture
13:55:44 <mlagally> q+
13:55:58 <mlagally> ... I object to deleting this
13:55:59 <luca_barbato_> q+
13:56:03 <kaz> i|I restru|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/24 Issue 24 - Consolidate and Refine Work Items and Describe Higher-Level Goals|
13:56:14 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:56:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/21-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:56:28 <cris_> q+
13:56:33 <mlagally> ... onboarding is a pretty big missing item, security TF is considering this very important
13:56:51 <mlagally> ben: not sure what onboarding relates to, could be put into discovery
13:56:56 <kaz> q+
13:56:59 <kaz> ack b
13:57:01 <kaz> ack e
13:57:03 <mlagally> mmc: we could do that
13:57:50 <mlagally> ege: I objected the security deliverable, not sure about the reason. I agree with Ben Francis, that it belongs into discovery.
13:59:00 <mlagally> mmc: Let'S review the rendered version
13:59:11 <mlagally> ++q
13:59:13 <luca_barbato_> I also agree with Ben Francis, I was about to say about the same thing about Onboarding and Discovery being close
13:59:13 <mlagally> q++
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13:59:37 <kaz> q- +
13:59:43 <kaz> ack ml
14:00:38 <cris_> ack c
14:00:55 <mlagally> mmc: Please review the PRs and let's rediscuss logisitcs in tomorrow's main call
14:01:19 <mlagally> * ml: I have to leave
14:03:53 <kaz> kaz: sounds to me that unfortunately we don't have enough consensus yet for generating actual text, would suggest we once stop generating/discussing Pullrequests but should concentrate on discussion to clarify people's expectations first.
14:04:02 <kaz> s/sounds/scribenick: kaz/
14:04:04 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:04:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:04:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/21-wot-minutes.html kaz
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