IRC log of rqtf on 2023-02-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:16:09 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rqtf
13:16:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/02/15-rqtf-irc
13:16:14 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:16:15 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rqtf
13:16:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
13:16:15 [trackbot]
Date: 15 February 2023
13:16:17 [jasonjgw]
chair: jasonjgw
13:16:19 [jasonjgw]
present+
13:16:24 [jasonjgw]
scribe+ jasonjgw
13:16:53 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Coordination: CAPTCHA and authentication.
13:16:53 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Ethical Principles for Web Machine Learning - review of draft.
13:16:53 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Artificial intelligence and people with disabilities - opportunities for
13:16:53 [jasonjgw]
further work.
13:16:53 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements.
13:16:56 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Web of Things: accessible recovery requirements.
13:16:58 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.
13:17:04 [jasonjgw]
agenda?
13:36:28 [janina]
janina has joined #rqtf
13:36:39 [janina]
agenda?
13:58:24 [JPaton]
JPaton has joined #rqtf
13:59:04 [scott_h]
scott_h has joined #rqtf
14:00:29 [janina]
present+
14:00:37 [scott_h]
present+
14:00:50 [SteveNoble]
SteveNoble has joined #rqtf
14:00:58 [SteveNoble]
present+
14:01:48 [Roy]
Roy has joined #rqtf
14:03:05 [SteveNoble]
scribe: SteveNoble
14:03:07 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:03:07 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Coordination: CAPTCHA and authentication. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:04:10 [Roy]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kXUL1fk1Z7kkbKauc0awWUf_6a_AoJ_fG9tuSeaLljc/edit
14:04:28 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Ongoing discussion on how web authentication and security keys may overcome need for CAPTCHA
14:05:01 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Any recent developments or intended actions?
14:05:46 [SteveNoble]
janina: Email was sent to the FIDO Alliance, but no response so far
14:07:17 [Roy]
present+
14:07:27 [SteveNoble]
janina: Suspect that many of the old CAPTCHA techniques will be around for a while, so those points are still in scope
14:08:29 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Mentioned a new resource that we may want to reference
14:09:34 [Raja_Kushalnagar]
Raja_Kushalnagar has joined #rqtf
14:12:33 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Once we get enough new information we can be in a position to update the doc
14:13:21 [SteveNoble]
janina: Suggest that the new US document that Jason mentioned should examined for material to update the doc
14:13:36 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:13:36 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Ethical Principles for Web Machine Learning - review of draft. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:13:44 [SteveNoble]
scott_h: Will take that as an action item
14:16:07 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: The draft is ongoing. Any thoughts?
14:16:27 [SteveNoble]
https://webmachinelearning.github.io/webmachinelearning-ethics/
14:17:05 [SteveNoble]
janina: There is also a WebML working group active in this space
14:18:44 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: There is a transparency section that would be good to look at
14:19:40 [SteveNoble]
janina: Since the document is still open, we should go ahead and submit github issues
14:21:08 [SteveNoble]
janina: Knowing the basis of previous failures of AI could be useful in understanding how to improve this technology
14:21:34 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Suggest we look at this again when Lionel is available
14:21:50 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:21:50 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Artificial intelligence and people with disabilities - opportunities for -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:21:53 [SteveNoble]
janina: Also suggest we reach out to Yutta
14:24:44 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: AI may often have propensity for errors that the developers had not anticipated
14:26:01 [SteveNoble]
janina: Rooting out how AI errors occurred will be useful in correcting this in future
14:26:59 [SteveNoble]
Raja_Kushalnagar: About the web overlay AI approach -- when errors do happen, there is no human involvement to fix AI errors
14:29:14 [SteveNoble]
janina: Such overlay AI inaccuracies has been a known issue, which is one reason why the NFB and others have opposed the use of such tools
14:30:09 [SteveNoble]
janina: This is another good topic to bring up when Lionel is with us
14:31:36 [SteveNoble]
Raja_Kushalnagar: We know AI is commonly used for audio captions, for example, but the problem arises in high-stakes settings
14:33:00 [SteveNoble]
janina: One point is that when captions are retained for future publishing, then correcting those errors should be important
14:35:01 [SteveNoble]
Raja_Kushalnagar: It is important to know how good the accuracy is; while the live automated captions may be quick, it is hard to know when spoken information is going to become high stakes
14:35:53 [SteveNoble]
janina: This has really expanded since COVID has pushed so many meetings to virtual
14:37:29 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: The legal point is crucially important in certain settings; knowing at what point the automated captions fail to meet required access
14:38:58 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: This is an area of discussion we should continue discussion and collaboration with other W3C groups
14:39:44 [SteveNoble]
Raja_Kushalnagar: Agreed
14:40:56 [SteveNoble]
Raja_Kushalnagar: I am happy to help with further analysis and writing
14:42:44 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: There is legal research to be done as well as the technological issues
14:43:38 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: There may be a point at which the AI becomes as generally reliable as human-moderated access, but this may vary by the specific vocabulary used and setting in which it is used
14:46:57 [SteveNoble]
Raja_Kushalnagar: About Open-AI - it doesn't allow people to do nefarious things; but human moderators are not supposed to censor communication
14:48:19 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: The problem is that the system may be trained to censor certain content, which can be a problem
14:48:41 [jasonjgw]
zakim, next item
14:48:41 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:49:47 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Still gathering COGA feedback
14:51:20 [SteveNoble]
janina: They will be adding github issues
14:52:17 [SteveNoble]
jasonjgw: Once we have the comments and address them, at that point we should be able to push out an edited draft
14:53:20 [SteveNoble]
scott_h: Have some additional points and citations I plan to include
14:54:05 [SteveNoble]
scott_h: Was unsure whether to wait for COGA's comments first.
14:57:23 [scott_h]
trackbot, end meeting
14:57:23 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
14:57:23 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, janina, scott_h, SteveNoble, Roy
14:57:31 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:57:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/15-rqtf-minutes.html trackbot
14:57:40 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
14:57:40 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items
14:57:40 [janina]
janina has left #rqtf