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13:20:09 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:20:10 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), dauwhe
13:20:21 <dauwhe> meeting: EPUB 3 Working Group Telecon
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14:59:40 <duga> present+
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15:01:16 <MattChan> present+
15:01:18 <tzviya> regrets+
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15:03:09 <CharlesL> present+
15:03:14 <JF> Present+
15:04:24 <MattChan> scribe+
15:04:28 <JF> agenda?
15:04:45 <MattChan> TOPIC: Update on publication process
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15:05:06 <MattChan> wendyreid: our PR transition got rejected because we had not made a new CR snapshot since May 2022
15:05:20 <MattChan> ... usual process is CR snapshot after substantive changes, which triggers wider review
15:05:42 <MattChan> ... we spoke with Phillipe yesterday, and all substantive changes in the last 8 months were because of wide review. Specifically security changes
15:05:49 <MattChan> ... which is why we didn't make the snapshot
15:05:54 <MattChan> ... but they want proof of that
15:06:08 <MattChan> ... i'm in the process of asking for new reviews from TAG and PING
15:06:12 <MattChan> JF: and APA?
15:06:27 <MattChan> wendyreid: nope, we got fresh ones from them in Feb. and from i18n
15:07:21 <MattChan> ... so we need to go into a new CR snapshop, which involves new 28 day review period, and 60 day patent-related wait
15:07:43 <MattChan> ... the current date structure is if we pub snapshot on 21st, barring required revision, we will transition to PR on apr 11th
15:07:48 <MattChan> ... will publish on may 16th
15:08:10 <MattChan> duga: good thing we got that long charter extension
15:08:16 <MattChan> wendyreid: yes, we're extended until aug
15:08:32 <MattChan> ... we are going ahead with that process. Just making everyone aware of it.
15:08:40 <wendyreid> q?
15:09:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:10:02 <MattChan> ... we may need to change the copyright statement related to some ongoing legal actions
15:10:08 <wendyreid> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:10:41 <AvneeshSingh> q+
15:10:45 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
15:10:47 <MattChan> Bill_Kasdorf: the 14 day period Overdrive had to appeal the related legal action may have just lapsed
15:12:48 <MattChan> wendyreid: thankfully we don't have to do anything for the snapshot
15:12:58 <MattChan> TOPIC: Charter discussion
15:13:13 <MattChan> wendyreid: while we are waiting on the publication process to proceed, there won't be much to talk about aside from the Charter
15:13:28 <MattChan> ... usual process is that when your spec goes to Rec status, the WG transitions to a Maintenance WG
15:13:43 <MattChan> ... if anyone comes up with errata, or there is additional work that needs to be done, the Maint. WG will do it
15:13:55 <MattChan> ... we did the same thing in the 2 years following Audiobook spec
15:14:02 <MattChan> ... we still need to write a charter for the Maint. WG
15:14:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:14:45 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
15:14:57 <MattChan> ... there was a proposal that the Audiobooks Maint. WG charter expired, and that instead of having 2 Maint. WG running at the same time with overlap in membership, we wondered whether it would make sense to have a single Maint. WG that oversees epub, pub manifest, and audiobooks all together
15:15:48 <MattChan> ... Maint. WG only meets when something comes up. e.g. Audio books one met 2 times last year
15:15:57 <MattChan> ... most of the work is monitoring the github
15:16:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:16:09 <MattChan> ... and addressing issues that get raised
15:16:09 <wendyreid> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:16:25 <MattChan> Bill_Kasdorf: do we know where pub manifest is being used? what it is being used for?
15:16:53 <MattChan> ... i've been co-chairing NISO working group that is promulgating new standard that uses pub manifest as part of our spec
15:17:19 <MattChan> wendyreid: unless someone announces they are using it, we don't know
15:17:26 <AvneeshSingh> If possible we should name it as Publishing maintenance WG, instead of Publishing WG. It would give an option open to have a new Publishing WG for further development
15:17:29 <MattChan> ... i've found out about implementations mostly by accident
15:17:43 <MattChan> ... i found out that Google uses Audiobook LPF format as one option for AI generated audiobooks
15:17:56 <MattChan> ... but no one said anything
15:18:24 <MattChan> Bill_Kasdorf: i brought it up because this seems to be another argument in favor of a consolidated maint WG
15:18:41 <MattChan> ... knowing that Audiobooks is being used and Pub Manifest is being used is related info
15:18:49 <MattChan> ... shouldn't be silo'ed
15:19:01 <CharlesL> +1 to Avneesh's suggestion on the new name for the Maintenance WG
15:19:14 <MattChan> duga: makes scheduling for TPAC easier too, just avoids the possibility of conflicting meeting times
15:19:44 <MattChan> wendyreid: AvneeshSingh suggests calling it "Publishing Working Group". Sounds good to me.
15:20:02 <MattChan> ... epub will not be a standard that accepts new changes. So maint will only be errata and editorial fixes.
15:20:08 <MattChan> ... but other two do accept new changes
15:20:25 <MattChan> ... so the joint maint wg could work on new features
15:20:39 <MattChan> ... so we would have to make that clear in the charter
15:21:13 <AvneeshSingh> q+
15:21:17 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
15:21:26 <MattChan> s/"Publishing Working Group"/"Publishing maintenance WG"
15:21:46 <MattChan> AvneeshSingh: are the w3c staff okay with having this sort of dual purpose maint wg
15:22:13 <MattChan> wendyreid: before i proposed this I did ask Phillipe and Ralph, and they said it was okay
15:22:30 <MattChan> ... the major argument was that there is just so much overlap in membership
15:23:18 <MattChan> dhall: i like the idea of combining them. More bandwidth for other things
15:23:21 <wendyreid> https://w3c.github.io/charter-drafts/charter-template.html
15:23:29 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/2020/12/epub3-wg-charter.html
15:23:39 <MattChan> wendyreid: for reference, here is the template, and the current epub Charter
15:23:53 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/2020/11/audiobooks-wg-charter.html
15:24:09 <MattChan> ... and this is maint Charter for Audiobooks
15:24:26 <dhall> q+
15:24:32 <wendyreid> ack dhall
15:24:42 <dhall> https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-33/#sec-pkg-metadata
15:25:14 <MattChan> dhall: we have a how to write an epub guide that we want to link to the actual spec. Suggested practices for linking to spec? What URL should we be using?
15:25:38 <MattChan> wendyreid: i don't believe the link will change. The one you provided will definitely not change. Doubt the anchors would change at this point
15:25:46 <MattChan> dhall: thanks!
15:26:17 <MattChan> wendyreid: especially as we enter CR snapshot and PR. Barring comment about something we must change, we will not be touching the document at all
15:26:25 <CharlesL> q+
15:26:30 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
15:27:23 <MattChan> CharlesL: brief update on NNELs Publishing A11y Summit. We were looking at certification and metadata. Sustainability of a11y ecosystem for publishers. Marrakesh treaty
15:27:43 <MattChan> wendyreid: it was pub on by NNEL (National Network for Equitable Library Services)
15:28:01 <MattChan> ... goal was to bring all players in publishing industry together to talk about born accessible publishing
15:28:27 <MattChan> ... Canadian based/Canadian govt funded, but we've had international guests over the years
15:29:05 <MattChan> ... biggest take away was that industry has made massive strides in producing front and backlist a11y content, but does a11y metadata appear in retail streams?
15:29:08 <dauwhe> present+
15:29:29 <MattChan> ... where is this info being surfaced? (Aside from a couple notable implementations like Redshelf and VST)
15:29:46 <MattChan> ... big questions about Marrakesh Treaty and what it means for copyright
15:29:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:30:23 <MattChan> ... and the sustainability of the a11y publishing ecosystem. In Canada, it is partly funded by the fed. govt. and those grants are ending next year. As far as we've heard there are no plans to continue past 2024, so how do we keep the momentum going?
15:30:34 <wendyreid> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:30:34 <MattChan> ... how do we keep it going elsewhere (e.g. EAA)
15:31:20 <MattChan> Bill_Kasdorf: our general perception is that a11y metadata exists, but that its not being used in retail channels. To our retails in the call, do you have metrics about the epubs that are coming in to you, what percent have a11y metadata?
15:31:31 <MattChan> wendyreid: we have quite a bit (don't know exact number)
15:31:40 <MattChan> ... any GCA certified pub would have it
15:32:00 <MattChan> Bill_Kasdorf: its not optimism that people are supplying a11y metadata, its the truth
15:32:03 <dhall> q+
15:32:07 <wendyreid> ack dhall
15:32:26 <MattChan> dhall: i imagine i could check it. If i'm allowed to share our stats I will
15:32:45 <MattChan> wendyreid: an interesting point that came up during the summit, was platform validation of a11y metadata
15:32:47 <gpellegrino> q+
15:33:16 <MattChan> ... we getting a lot of a11y metadata, but we don't have good way to validate those claims about WCAG standard compliance, a11y features etc.
15:33:24 <wendyreid> ack gpellegrino
15:33:25 <MattChan> ... some people are manually checking
15:33:31 <MattChan> ... certification helps with that
15:34:12 <MattChan> gpellegrino: a11y TF of publishing wg was discussing this. Maybe in publishing cg we will work on best practices for retailers, libraries, etc. on this topic
15:34:37 <MattChan> Bill_Kasdorf: for retailers, just provide it with a disclaimer saying "the following are the publisher's assertions about a11y"
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15:34:54 <MattChan> wendyreid: but at the end of the day the RS has to take on the burden of customer feedback, etc. etc.
15:35:18 <rickj> q+
15:35:26 <wendyreid> ack rickj
15:36:03 <MattChan> [on Zoom screen]
15:36:47 <MattChan> CharlesL: its a bar graph, showing month over month improvement in epubs ingested with a11y data. Starts small, but grows to about 30-40%
15:38:17 <MattChan> wendyreid: okay thanks everyone for your feedback today
15:38:27 <wendyreid> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:38:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/10-epub-minutes.html wendyreid
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15:38:37 <wendyreid> rrsagent, make logs public
15:38:45 <wendyreid> zakim, end meeting
15:38:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been duga, wendyreid, dhall, MasakazuKitahara, rickj, MattChan, gpellegrino, AvneeshSingh, CharlesL, JF, dauwhe
15:38:48 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:38:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/10-epub-minutes.html Zakim
15:39:27 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, wendyreid; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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15:39:32 <wendyreid> rrsagent, bye
15:39:32 <RRSAgent> I see no action items