10:53:08 RRSAgent has joined #wot-arch 10:53:13 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/02/09-wot-arch-irc 10:59:04 ryuichi has joined #wot-arch 11:04:59 meeting: WoT Architecture 11:05:10 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Michael_Lagally 11:05:23 chair: Lagally 11:05:26 Mizushima has joined #wot-arch 11:06:32 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#Architecture_Feb_9th.2C_2023 11:09:20 scribenick: kaz 11:09:26 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 11:09:29 topic: Minutes 11:09:42 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/02/02-wot-arch-minutes.html Feb-2 11:09:44 approved 11:09:53 topic: Plans for the next Charter 11:10:24 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1069 wot Issue 1069 - Brainstorming: Topics for the next charter from Architecture TF discussion 11:10:33 q+ 11:11:13 ml: just consolidated our discussions 11:11:20 chair: McCool 11:11:44 mm: could put them into several categories 11:12:01 ... e.g., behavior description might be part of the topic on "Digital Twins" 11:12:26 q? 11:13:22 ktoumura has joined #wot-arch 11:13:24 kaz: agree with McCool 11:13:58 ... for example, we could have "service" and "technology" as the top-level categories 11:14:12 ... digital twins could be part of the service category 11:14:14 mm: ok 11:15:43 kaz: btw, given we already have a new repo for Charter discussion, we could move this wot Issue 1069 as well to the new repo 11:16:51 mm: right 11:17:02 ... let's move the issue later 11:17:35 kaz: ok 11:17:53 ... in any case, there are various overlaps among the items there 11:18:20 ... so we need at least two-dimensional analysis, from service viewpoint and from feature viewpoint 11:18:25 mm: ok 11:18:26 Ege has joined #wot-arch 11:18:54 ... let's add some more clarifications to each topic first 11:20:40 ml: regarding the definition for Digital Twins, there was some within the Architecture spec 11:20:42 mm: ok 11:20:56 ... (copies the definition from the Architecture spec) 11:21:38 [[ 11:21:39 A digital twin is type of Virtual Thing that resides on a cloud or edge node. Digital Twins may be used to represent and provide a network interface for real-world devices which may not be continuously online (see also Shadows), may be able to run simulations of new applications and services before they get deployed to the real devices, may be able to maintain a history of past state or behaviour, and may be able to predict future state or behaviour. 11:21:39 Digital Twins typically have more functionality than simple Shadows. 11:21:39 ]] 11:23:19 present+ Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Sebastian_Kaebisch 11:23:25 sebastian has joined #wot-arch 11:23:39 q+ 11:24:00 q+ 11:24:22 q+ 11:24:43 +1 to kaz 11:25:15 kaz: sorry but do we really need to discuss this detail of the definition for each topic now? 11:25:51 mm: talking about the definition to let people have the same image is important 11:25:59 ack k 11:26:29 McCool has joined #wot-arch 11:26:38 ek: think we should more high-level discussion on the topics for the next Charter preparation 11:26:47 s/think/also think/ 11:27:29 ml: improving the definition of "Digital Twins" itself is useful, though 11:27:52 sk: several comments 11:28:08 ktoumura has joined #wot-arch 11:28:20 ... should be good to have a nicer definition but we should refer to the other SDOs definition as well 11:28:21 ack s 11:28:38 ... would be careful about the definition since any other SDOs also work on that 11:29:04 ... regarding the definition itself, removing the limitation on edge/cloud would be good 11:29:36 ... btw, the Calendar invite for the WoT Architecture call to be fixed 11:29:40 mm: ok 11:29:53 rrsagent, make log public 11:30:12 ml: regarding your comment on the definition itself, fully agree 11:30:28 ... we should look into the other SDOs definitions 11:30:49 ... any ideas about concrete examples? 11:31:03 sk: can look into DCA, CASME, etc. 11:33:08 ... should ask W3C Member colleagues for help first, e.g., Microsoft and Schaeffler 11:33:15 q+ 11:33:43 kaz: fyi, there is an entry within Wikipedia already :) 11:33:45 mm: ok 11:33:47 ack k 11:33:49 ack e 11:35:11 subtopic: Possible restructuring 11:35:33 ek: from my viewpoint, WoT Architecture's structure should be improved 11:36:04 ... got feedback during the TD call yesterday 11:36:17 ... 1. the Architecture document is too big 11:36:26 q+ 11:37:38 kaz: Ege is making some comments based on the discussion on Binding Templates yesterday 11:37:40 s/DCA, CASME/Industrial Digital Twin Association (IDTA) and CESMII 11:38:00 ek: yes, would give some background information 11:38:20 ... some of the description on Binding Templates is included in the WoT Architecture specification 11:39:52 ... then Chapter 4 and 5 describe topics not related to implementations 11:40:13 s/then/regarding the WoT Architecture 1.1 spec, / 11:40:53 ... (give some more points based on the discussion during the Binding Templates call yesterday) 11:41:10 ... consistency among WoT specifications is important 11:41:49 ... think it would be useful to have a dedicated TF to work on synchronization among WoT specs 11:42:12 q? 11:42:16 ack k 11:42:20 mm: ok 11:42:51 ... understood this is really a different proposal from our original brainstorming for the topics 11:42:56 q? 11:43:16 ml: restructuring our specs is always important 11:43:19 q+ 11:43:40 ... more coordination by all the Editors is also important 11:43:50 ... but not sure if we need yet another TF for that purpose 11:43:58 q? 11:44:48 kaz: agree with all of you :) 11:45:13 ... let's create an issue for the new Charter period on stronger synchronization among specs 11:45:27 ... then let's use the rest of the time today for the original agenda item 11:46:12 mm: ok 11:46:35 topic: Brainstorming for new items - revisited 11:46:56 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1069 wot Issue 1069 - Brainstorming: Topics for the next charter from Architecture TF discussion 11:47:29 q? 11:47:31 q+ 11:47:33 ack k 11:48:10 ml: (gives ideas for Digital Twins) 11:48:36 ... link types with clearer semantics, gneric graph structure like DTDL 11:48:36 +1 11:48:53 q+ 11:48:55 q+ 11:48:57 ack m 11:49:21 mm: digital twins connections to existing standards as well 11:49:33 ... 3D models, 2D maps, behavior description 11:50:22 ek: if we want to think about behavior description, we might want to look into prior work within W3C like SCXML (State Chart XML) 11:50:25 ack e 11:50:34 mm: right 11:50:43 ... note there are several kinds of links 11:50:55 ... internal links and external links 11:51:21 ... internal links can be used for additional structure 11:51:39 .... like hierarchy, TM/TD relations 11:51:55 present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura 11:52:02 rrsagent, make log public 11:52:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 11:52:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/09-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 11:52:24 mm: also thinking about robotics 11:52:39 q+ 11:52:53 ... think there are two large categories here 11:53:04 ... what kind of links to be used for what 11:54:49 kaz: potential CG, what to do ourselves@@@ 11:54:55 mm: totally agree 11:55:43 ... also Digital Twins is only one of our topics 11:55:45 kaz: right 11:56:13 sk: would propose how WoT can be used in combination with other technologies as well 11:56:31 ... also how to apply to other ecosystems 11:56:52 ... e.g., OPC UA 11:57:15 ... possible services like BIM, GIS, etc. 11:57:18 q? 11:57:19 ack k 11:57:20 ack s 11:57:22 q+ 11:58:25 kaz: so we might want to add even bigger category on WoT's deployment to the other ecosystems :) 11:58:27 mm: yeah 11:59:17 ml: also would thik about better UI modeling 11:59:18 q? 11:59:20 ack k 11:59:40 ... would consider the relationship with HTML 11:59:45 q+ 11:59:51 mm: should clarify that 12:00:04 ... and behavior annotation for accessibility 12:01:00 kaz: happy to help around this direction since I had been working on Voice/MMI standards :) 12:01:02 mm: yes 12:01:15 q? 12:01:17 ack k 12:01:21 q+ 12:01:38 ... also should include devices for UI 12:02:11 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1069#issuecomment-1424075102 updated comments on Issue 1069 12:02:22 topic: Restructuring - revisited 12:02:30 mm: just creating a new issue 12:02:48 q+ 12:03:19 sorry, I have to go 12:04:04 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1070 wot issue 1070 - Architecture Restructuring 12:04:34 kaz: note that further discussion on the new WG Charter (including this issue 1070) should be held on the new repo, wot-charter-drafts 12:05:24 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts new wot-charter-drafts repo 12:05:28 [adjourned] 12:05:42 s/sorry, I have to go// 12:05:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:05:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/09-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 14:31:40 Zakim has left #wot-arch