15:54:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
15:54:32 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/02/01-pointerevents-irc
15:54:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:55:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:55:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a81709f0-4b0c-48a7-afa9-36828ab63073/20230201T110000
15:55:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
15:55:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
15:55:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ Patrick_H_Lauke
15:58:55 <smaug> Patrick_H_Lauke: we're still using webex?
15:59:27 <flackr> flackr has joined #pointerevents
16:01:38 <mustaq> I am being asked for webex login!
16:01:44 <mustaq> present+
16:03:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
16:03:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
16:03:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Coordinates of a pointercancel event https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/463
16:04:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: didn't have time to write a test
16:05:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: do firefox and chrome behave differently with touchcancel as well?
16:05:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: need to test, also good to check what Safari does
16:05:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: what do pointerenter/pointerleave do?
16:05:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: those are just hacks on top of over/out
16:06:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: but even then they still refer to the document...
16:06:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: would be good to make sure it gives coordinates of last known position inside the document?
16:06:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: i think Navid was looking at this...
16:07:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: for cancel it's tricky because it may have been cancelled for a variety of reasons
16:07:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: do we want to expose coords for situations when coords WERE known?
16:08:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we could always report last known good coords. would be good to see what the developer use case would be.
16:08:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: wasn't there a chrome bug about this? what was the complaint
16:09:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: the bug reported complained that they got 0/0, don't think they understood the situation that may lead to a cancel
16:09:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: [speculates about situations where relying on getting last known good x/y on cancel may be useful]
16:10:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: it won't give devs anything more useful or wrong than listening to all the move events and looking at the last one that came in
16:10:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: might be good to see how touchcancel is handled, for possible consistency
16:11:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: for pointercancel just before a dragstart we send the last known good coordinates in gecko
16:11:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: per what the drag'n'drop spec demands
16:12:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: conceptually i like the idea of "send the last known good, otherwise 0/0" or should it be null/null?
16:14:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: we would always have a coordinate, as otherwise pointer would not exist in the first place
16:16:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we'll still have the challenge of pressure, like we had to do for up event, but we have precedent
16:17:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: we do have a slightly different situation though as cancel could happen while pressure is full, etc. so maybe copy/transplant last known good values for all of those
16:17:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: propose some additional wording to clarify values of properties on cancel
16:19:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Olli to write test for touchcancel, for consistency check
16:19:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Meta-issue: update WPT to cover Pointer Events Level 3 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/445
16:19:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aclosed+label%3Aneeds-wpt+
16:19:55 <flackr> https://w3c.github.io/touch-events/#dom-touchevent-changedtouches
16:20:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: touch events DO say what happens with coordinates for touchcancel
16:20:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: so the proposal here would be consistent
16:21:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: might have a look to see if TE spec says anything about pressure etc
16:22:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so for the WPT one we do now have the list of things lacking tests https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aclosed+label%3Aneeds-wpt+ ... now how do we go about it/split this up
16:22:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: some of those tests would be trivial, others not so much. expect to look at them sometime this month, but no progress
16:22:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: I should try to find some time. Ask Edgar, also
16:23:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: how do we coordinate?
16:23:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: add a comment to the issue https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/445
16:23:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: sorry, comment on the relevant PR
16:25:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Heartbeat: Clarify what the target of the click event should be after capturing pointer events https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/356
16:26:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: I did ask Anne if he could find somebody from Apple to comment on it, but still waiting
16:27:40 <mustaq> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/462
16:27:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: raw trackpad data issue
16:32:02 <mustaq> We discussed this here before: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/228#issuecomment-342974629
16:32:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: and we also have https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/206
16:36:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [short discussion on the topic]
16:37:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: fundamentally, this feels too low-level and not quite in line with what PE do. has shades of sensor api (access sensor for trackpad directly) and even pointer lock (as if i'm, say, doing a signature on a trackpad, i don't want my mouse to move around the screen).
16:37:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I'll file a comment on all the above issues pointing to https://discourse.wicg.io/ where interested devs can suggest this as a new spec and see if it gains traction
16:37:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to comment on the three related issues/feature requests about raw trackpad data
16:38:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> https://github.com/w3c/touch-events/issues/134
16:43:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [further brief discussion on the similarities between the ask of raw trackpad and pointer lock API]
16:43:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:43:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:43:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/02/01-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
16:43:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:43:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
16:43:39 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/02/01-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
16:43:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: propose some additional wording to clarify values of properties on cancel [1]
16:43:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/02/01-pointerevents-irc#T16-17-34
16:43:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Olli to write test for touchcancel, for consistency check [2]
16:43:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/02/01-pointerevents-irc#T16-19-17
16:43:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to comment on the three related issues/feature requests about raw trackpad data [3]
16:43:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/02/01-pointerevents-irc#T16-37-46