14:13:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #adapt
14:13:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-irc
14:13:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:13:31 <trackbot> Meeting: WAI Adapt Task Force Teleconference
14:13:31 <trackbot> Date: 30 January 2023
14:14:10 <Sharon> zakim, clear agenda
14:14:10 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:14:25 <Sharon> chair: Sharon
14:14:34 <Sharon> agenda?
14:15:36 <Sharon> agenda+ Welcomes & introductions
14:16:08 <Sharon> agenda+ Accessibility for Children Community Group
14:16:35 <Sharon> agenda+ Review open issues
14:16:54 <Sharon> agenda+ Recruiting
14:16:59 <Sharon> agenda?
14:49:49 <janina> janina has joined #adapt
14:50:02 <janina> agenda?
14:50:12 <janina> present+
14:50:25 <janina> zakim, who's here?
14:50:25 <Zakim> Present: janina, matatk, Lionel_Wolberger, Sharon
14:50:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, RRSAgent, Sharon, MichaelC, roy__, Zakim, Mike5Matrix, Github, trackbot
14:52:12 <SuzanneTaylor> SuzanneTaylor has joined #adapt
14:55:03 <matatk> matatk has joined #adapt
14:58:59 <janina> zakim, who's here?
14:58:59 <Zakim> Present: janina, matatk, Lionel_Wolberger, Sharon
14:59:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see matatk, SuzanneTaylor, janina, RRSAgent, Sharon, MichaelC, roy__, Zakim, Mike5Matrix, Github, trackbot
15:00:45 <Maud> Maud has joined #adapt
15:01:36 <SuzanneTaylor> present+
15:01:42 <matatk> present!
15:01:45 <matatk> present+
15:02:40 <Maud> present+
15:02:54 <Bob_D> Bob_D has joined #adapt
15:03:17 <janina> present+
15:03:54 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #adapt
15:04:20 <mike_beganyi> present+
15:04:35 <janina> scribe+
15:06:35 <janina> zakim, next item
15:06:35 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Welcomes & introductions -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:08:01 <janina> Intros in progress ...
15:08:23 <janina> Reminder to have people type in "present+" for the sake of logging participation on this call
15:08:49 <janina> Also invites people to use "q+" to raise hand when desiring to speak
15:09:21 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:09:21 <Zakim> Present: janina, matatk, Lionel_Wolberger, Sharon, SuzanneTaylor, Maud, mike_beganyi
15:09:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see mike_beganyi, Bob_D, Maud, matatk, SuzanneTaylor, janina, RRSAgent, Sharon, MichaelC, roy__, Zakim, Mike5Matrix, Github, trackbot
15:11:04 <janina> zakim, next item
15:11:04 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Accessibility for Children Community Group -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:12:30 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: Notes wish to establish communications between their CG and Adapt TF; what feedback mechanism
15:13:30 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: Notes our spec has been reviewed in the CG
15:13:49 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: notes 'simplification' as particularly interesting
15:14:26 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: Having an additional simplification related tag for content vs. UI would be helpful
15:14:49 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:14:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-minutes.html matatk
15:15:37 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: wondering whether it's time to build a browser extension to test approaches
15:16:03 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: recalls Bob's presentation in the CG on the 19th
15:16:39 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: even an svg image set of alternatives
15:17:35 <janina> bob: Yes, a demo of a several year old NSF funded research project looking at ways of marking ed content based on learner need; select, sequence, and render to best learning needs plus a11y
15:17:59 <janina> bob: Now dusting that work off to see where there may be opportunities
15:18:26 <janina> q+ to respond on feedback and on our taxonomy
15:18:59 <janina> bob: Most important aspect of our work was to establish an ontology based on what we know both about a11y and about pedagogy
15:19:15 <Sharon> ack janina
15:19:15 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to respond on feedback and on our taxonomy
15:20:30 <matatk> q+
15:21:47 <Maud> Here are the summary notes (minutes) of our last accessibility for children meeting with Bob's presentation) https://www.w3.org/community/accessibility4children/wiki/Meeting_Notes#Second_Meeting_.28January.2C_19_2023.29
15:21:50 <Sharon> ack matatk
15:22:04 <janina> janina: Notes that PRs to Explainer with exampfles would be great
15:22:21 <janina> janina: Also, don't trip over current adapt-* names; we may generalize
15:22:39 <janina> matatk: Notes discussions from TPAC relating to what content you want, and whalt you don't
15:22:55 <janina> matatk: notes the shopping example is hard coded, not based on our thinking
15:23:39 <janina> matatk: what is hard coded in that example certainly meets certain needs; but may not be the need in all situations, i.e. the content exluded on one viewing may be the desired content in the next viewing
15:23:55 <janina> matatk: Would be good to be able to encode based on a specific user profile/needs list
15:24:16 <janina> q?
15:24:24 <SuzanneTaylor> q+
15:24:43 <Sharon> ack SuzanneTaylor
15:24:53 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: Yes, we looked at shopping ...
15:25:02 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: initial comment was "how do we know?"
15:25:49 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: abut thinking about user control, it could exemplify tech helping users chunk content for easier comprehension which could eventually make the unsimplified UI alone OK
15:26:15 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: chunking could give us opportunity to explain what's shown and how to relate to it
15:26:45 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: asks whether they should take next step, or us look atBob's ontology
15:26:59 <matatk> s/atBob's/at Bob's/
15:27:01 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:27:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-minutes.html matatk
15:30:06 <janina> ~janina: Invites CG to add to Explainer; meanwhile Adapt should look at Bob's ontology
15:30:14 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: Will advise when CG takes this up
15:30:37 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: We have productive mtgs--next this Thursday with Adapt followup, will try for early draft
15:30:38 <matatk> s/~janina: Invites/janina: Invites/
15:30:40 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:30:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-minutes.html matatk
15:30:53 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: will ask group re next steps in that mtg as well
15:31:00 <janina> q?
15:31:51 <janina> bob: Will take this opportunity to shore up old NSF documentation and provide Adapt an ontology to study
15:32:07 <janina> bob: Notes it's hard, because cognitive is a challenge--everything seems important!
15:32:39 <Maud> q+
15:32:51 <Sharon> ack Maud
15:33:28 <janina> Maud: We also try to look at stats and research re chil.dren in our CG
15:33:38 <janina> Maud: Notes it's sometimes difficult to justify a choice
15:34:38 <SuzanneTaylor> q+
15:34:50 <Sharon> ack SuzanneTaylor
15:35:13 <janina> janina: notes teaching music by learning ernding first, then the section before it, etc., in order to always be moving to something familiar
15:36:09 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: notes a similar approachbeing overwhelmed by too many steps in math, so chunking the math could avoid intimidation and work toward the whol
15:36:17 <janina> s/whol/whole/
15:36:36 <janina> agenda?
15:37:17 <SuzanneTaylor> q+
15:37:27 <Sharon> ack SuzanneTaylor
15:37:30 <janina> SuzanneTaylor: sounds like we have excellent next steps
15:43:14 <janina> matatk: don't want to say much until seeing Bob's ontology, but thinking about different criteria may in fact not be "simplification," or whatever
15:43:37 <janina> matatk: But also a lot of data on people's interests and needs; probably standard formats and systems
15:43:47 <janina> matatk: might give us a path back to their content
15:44:46 <janina> matatk: will be interesting to see what they've done
15:47:40 <janina> Sharon: Noted Matthew's question on search; doesn't take the place of what you can, and can't pick. It doesn't make the page easier to read even when you pick
15:49:27 <janina> janina: notes it's too easy to buy the wrong thing in a shopping cart that doesn't actually restrict rendering to choices user has indicated
15:49:35 <janina> janina: why would they? they want the revenue
15:49:52 <janina> matatk: so it's a definitional question, what constitutes the simplified
15:50:01 <janina> matatk: it's not just simple to complex linearly
15:50:32 <janina> matatk: also, is this UI or content?
15:50:45 <janina> matatk: We'll want a follow-on conversation once we've looked at the ontoloty
15:50:58 <janina> Sharon: also where the use cases will help
15:51:08 <janina> Sharon: often it's both because they come out of a db
15:51:42 <janina> Sharon: seems with enough knowledge about a particular user, you could build a more effective UI/content digestion approach
15:52:19 <janina> matatk: Glad we enforced that we need to classify properties of content -- that may, or may not actually be a 'distraction.'
15:52:29 <janina> matatk: there's nothing intrinsic that's always 'distraction.'
15:52:49 <janina> matatk: it just depends on what one is after
15:53:48 <janina> matatk: adapt-simplification may just be the wrong name
15:53:48 <janina> Sharon: believe we discussedd when deciding on adapt-symbol
15:53:48 <janina> Sharon: so what's the unique value add we offer?
15:54:38 <janina> matatk: notes lots of work on appropriate classification -- we can draw on to decide how to define buckets
15:54:55 <janina> matatk: but there will be people who just need the bare minimum q+
15:55:03 <janina> q+
15:55:32 <Sharon> ack janina
15:57:18 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-minutes.html janina