IRC log of adapt on 2023-01-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:13:26 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-irc
14:13:30 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:13:31 [trackbot]
Meeting: WAI Adapt Task Force Teleconference
14:13:31 [trackbot]
Date: 30 January 2023
14:14:10 [Sharon]
zakim, clear agenda
14:14:10 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:14:25 [Sharon]
chair: Sharon
14:14:34 [Sharon]
agenda?
14:15:36 [Sharon]
agenda+ Welcomes & introductions
14:16:08 [Sharon]
agenda+ Accessibility for Children Community Group
14:16:35 [Sharon]
agenda+ Review open issues
14:16:54 [Sharon]
agenda+ Recruiting
14:16:59 [Sharon]
agenda?
14:49:49 [janina]
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14:50:02 [janina]
agenda?
14:50:12 [janina]
present+
14:50:25 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
14:50:25 [Zakim]
Present: janina, matatk, Lionel_Wolberger, Sharon
14:50:27 [Zakim]
On IRC I see janina, RRSAgent, Sharon, MichaelC, roy__, Zakim, Mike5Matrix, Github, trackbot
14:52:12 [SuzanneTaylor]
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14:55:03 [matatk]
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14:58:59 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
14:58:59 [Zakim]
Present: janina, matatk, Lionel_Wolberger, Sharon
14:59:01 [Zakim]
On IRC I see matatk, SuzanneTaylor, janina, RRSAgent, Sharon, MichaelC, roy__, Zakim, Mike5Matrix, Github, trackbot
15:00:45 [Maud]
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15:01:36 [SuzanneTaylor]
present+
15:01:42 [matatk]
present!
15:01:45 [matatk]
present+
15:02:40 [Maud]
present+
15:02:54 [Bob_D]
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15:03:17 [janina]
present+
15:03:54 [mike_beganyi]
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15:04:20 [mike_beganyi]
present+
15:04:35 [janina]
scribe+
15:06:35 [janina]
zakim, next item
15:06:35 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Welcomes & introductions -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:08:01 [janina]
Intros in progress ...
15:08:23 [janina]
Reminder to have people type in "present+" for the sake of logging participation on this call
15:08:49 [janina]
Also invites people to use "q+" to raise hand when desiring to speak
15:09:21 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
15:09:21 [Zakim]
Present: janina, matatk, Lionel_Wolberger, Sharon, SuzanneTaylor, Maud, mike_beganyi
15:09:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mike_beganyi, Bob_D, Maud, matatk, SuzanneTaylor, janina, RRSAgent, Sharon, MichaelC, roy__, Zakim, Mike5Matrix, Github, trackbot
15:11:04 [janina]
zakim, next item
15:11:04 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Accessibility for Children Community Group -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:12:30 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: Notes wish to establish communications between their CG and Adapt TF; what feedback mechanism
15:13:30 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: Notes our spec has been reviewed in the CG
15:13:49 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: notes 'simplification' as particularly interesting
15:14:26 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: Having an additional simplification related tag for content vs. UI would be helpful
15:14:49 [matatk]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:14:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-minutes.html matatk
15:15:37 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: wondering whether it's time to build a browser extension to test approaches
15:16:03 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: recalls Bob's presentation in the CG on the 19th
15:16:39 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: even an svg image set of alternatives
15:17:35 [janina]
bob: Yes, a demo of a several year old NSF funded research project looking at ways of marking ed content based on learner need; select, sequence, and render to best learning needs plus a11y
15:17:59 [janina]
bob: Now dusting that work off to see where there may be opportunities
15:18:26 [janina]
q+ to respond on feedback and on our taxonomy
15:18:59 [janina]
bob: Most important aspect of our work was to establish an ontology based on what we know both about a11y and about pedagogy
15:19:15 [Sharon]
ack janina
15:19:15 [Zakim]
janina, you wanted to respond on feedback and on our taxonomy
15:20:30 [matatk]
q+
15:21:47 [Maud]
Here are the summary notes (minutes) of our last accessibility for children meeting with Bob's presentation) https://www.w3.org/community/accessibility4children/wiki/Meeting_Notes#Second_Meeting_.28January.2C_19_2023.29
15:21:50 [Sharon]
ack matatk
15:22:04 [janina]
janina: Notes that PRs to Explainer with exampfles would be great
15:22:21 [janina]
janina: Also, don't trip over current adapt-* names; we may generalize
15:22:39 [janina]
matatk: Notes discussions from TPAC relating to what content you want, and whalt you don't
15:22:55 [janina]
matatk: notes the shopping example is hard coded, not based on our thinking
15:23:39 [janina]
matatk: what is hard coded in that example certainly meets certain needs; but may not be the need in all situations, i.e. the content exluded on one viewing may be the desired content in the next viewing
15:23:55 [janina]
matatk: Would be good to be able to encode based on a specific user profile/needs list
15:24:16 [janina]
q?
15:24:24 [SuzanneTaylor]
q+
15:24:43 [Sharon]
ack SuzanneTaylor
15:24:53 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: Yes, we looked at shopping ...
15:25:02 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: initial comment was "how do we know?"
15:25:49 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: abut thinking about user control, it could exemplify tech helping users chunk content for easier comprehension which could eventually make the unsimplified UI alone OK
15:26:15 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: chunking could give us opportunity to explain what's shown and how to relate to it
15:26:45 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: asks whether they should take next step, or us look atBob's ontology
15:26:59 [matatk]
s/atBob's/at Bob's/
15:27:01 [matatk]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:27:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-minutes.html matatk
15:30:06 [janina]
~janina: Invites CG to add to Explainer; meanwhile Adapt should look at Bob's ontology
15:30:14 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: Will advise when CG takes this up
15:30:37 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: We have productive mtgs--next this Thursday with Adapt followup, will try for early draft
15:30:38 [matatk]
s/~janina: Invites/janina: Invites/
15:30:40 [matatk]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:30:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-minutes.html matatk
15:30:53 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: will ask group re next steps in that mtg as well
15:31:00 [janina]
q?
15:31:51 [janina]
bob: Will take this opportunity to shore up old NSF documentation and provide Adapt an ontology to study
15:32:07 [janina]
bob: Notes it's hard, because cognitive is a challenge--everything seems important!
15:32:39 [Maud]
q+
15:32:51 [Sharon]
ack Maud
15:33:28 [janina]
Maud: We also try to look at stats and research re chil.dren in our CG
15:33:38 [janina]
Maud: Notes it's sometimes difficult to justify a choice
15:34:38 [SuzanneTaylor]
q+
15:34:50 [Sharon]
ack SuzanneTaylor
15:35:13 [janina]
janina: notes teaching music by learning ernding first, then the section before it, etc., in order to always be moving to something familiar
15:36:09 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: notes a similar approachbeing overwhelmed by too many steps in math, so chunking the math could avoid intimidation and work toward the whol
15:36:17 [janina]
s/whol/whole/
15:36:36 [janina]
agenda?
15:37:17 [SuzanneTaylor]
q+
15:37:27 [Sharon]
ack SuzanneTaylor
15:37:30 [janina]
SuzanneTaylor: sounds like we have excellent next steps
15:43:14 [janina]
matatk: don't want to say much until seeing Bob's ontology, but thinking about different criteria may in fact not be "simplification," or whatever
15:43:37 [janina]
matatk: But also a lot of data on people's interests and needs; probably standard formats and systems
15:43:47 [janina]
matatk: might give us a path back to their content
15:44:46 [janina]
matatk: will be interesting to see what they've done
15:47:40 [janina]
Sharon: Noted Matthew's question on search; doesn't take the place of what you can, and can't pick. It doesn't make the page easier to read even when you pick
15:49:27 [janina]
janina: notes it's too easy to buy the wrong thing in a shopping cart that doesn't actually restrict rendering to choices user has indicated
15:49:35 [janina]
janina: why would they? they want the revenue
15:49:52 [janina]
matatk: so it's a definitional question, what constitutes the simplified
15:50:01 [janina]
matatk: it's not just simple to complex linearly
15:50:32 [janina]
matatk: also, is this UI or content?
15:50:45 [janina]
matatk: We'll want a follow-on conversation once we've looked at the ontoloty
15:50:58 [janina]
Sharon: also where the use cases will help
15:51:08 [janina]
Sharon: often it's both because they come out of a db
15:51:42 [janina]
Sharon: seems with enough knowledge about a particular user, you could build a more effective UI/content digestion approach
15:52:19 [janina]
matatk: Glad we enforced that we need to classify properties of content -- that may, or may not actually be a 'distraction.'
15:52:29 [janina]
matatk: there's nothing intrinsic that's always 'distraction.'
15:52:49 [janina]
matatk: it just depends on what one is after
15:53:48 [janina]
matatk: adapt-simplification may just be the wrong name
15:53:48 [janina]
Sharon: believe we discussedd when deciding on adapt-symbol
15:53:48 [janina]
Sharon: so what's the unique value add we offer?
15:54:38 [janina]
matatk: notes lots of work on appropriate classification -- we can draw on to decide how to define buckets
15:54:55 [janina]
matatk: but there will be people who just need the bare minimum q+
15:55:03 [janina]
q+
15:55:32 [Sharon]
ack janina
15:57:18 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/30-adapt-minutes.html janina