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12:55:29 <kaz> meeting: WoT WG Charter - Day 4
12:55:37 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura
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13:02:33 <kaz> present+ Ege_Korkan, Erich_Barnstedt, Kunihiko_Toumura Michael_Koster, Michael_McCool
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13:02:53 <kaz> q+
13:03:02 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
13:03:17 <kaz> q-
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13:04:53 <kaz> q?
13:06:42 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
13:06:59 <Ege> q+
13:07:15 <kaz> q+
13:07:36 <kaz> ack e
13:07:44 <kaz> scribenick: sebastian
13:08:02 <kaz> present+ Ben_Francis
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13:08:37 <sebastian> <McCool ask the group how we should organize the next meeting about charter discussions>
13:09:11 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1051
13:09:33 <kaz> kaz: agree we need further discussion, and need to see good slot using Doodle. @@@
13:10:23 <benfrancis> q+
13:10:25 <sebastian> MM: should collect the points in the issue
13:11:18 <sebastian> Kaz: Charter is an abstract plan for the next 2 years.
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13:11:34 <kaz> s/@@@/However, before holding further discussion, we should clarify what to be described for the Charter./
13:12:09 <sebastian> ack k
13:12:36 <kaz> s/2 years./2 years, so it's different from C language code or programming script. So we need to review the whole Charter document section by section./
13:12:39 <kaz> q?
13:12:42 <kaz> ack b
13:13:05 <mlagally_> q+
13:13:13 <sebastian> Ben: please do not forget profile. Question to Kaz: how much details is needed?
13:14:08 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushim
13:14:16 <kaz> present- Tomoaki_Mizushim
13:14:20 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:14:20 <sebastian> Kaz: We should clearify our plan, also about the cooperation partners. Too much details is not needed
13:14:34 <kaz> s/details/detail/
13:15:40 <sebastian> <there will be a doodle for the next charter session>
13:15:41 <kaz> s/not needed/not needed. On the other hand, we need to identify what document we would like to generate, which of them are normative. Also joint deliverables based on official liaison with external SDOs./
13:15:51 <sebastian> topic: Profile
13:15:59 <sebastian> <Ben presents the PR>
13:16:20 <sebastian> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1056
13:16:52 <sebastian> MM: Im ok merging this. However the term "interoperability profile" sounds strange.
13:16:56 <sebastian> +1
13:16:59 <kaz> s/topic: Profile/subtopic: Profile/
13:17:10 <kaz> i/subtopic: Profile/topic: Deliverables/
13:17:38 <kaz> s|pull/1056|pull/1056 PR 1056 - WG 2023 Charter - Profile Work Items|
13:17:47 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:17:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:17:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:18:14 <kaz> chair: McCool
13:18:33 <sebastian> <Ben explains the details of its PR>
13:18:47 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Michaeel_Lagally
13:18:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:18:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:19:00 <Ege> q+
13:19:02 <McCool> q?
13:19:05 <kaz> q+
13:19:30 <sebastian> Ben: Complete the transition, Normatively define one or more profiles which specify how to observe         properties and subscribe to events over HTTP, Consider defining other profiles and Stretch goal
13:20:03 <McCool> q+
13:20:23 <McCool> qq+
13:20:55 <kaz> q- Mc
13:21:02 <sebastian> ML: we should finalize Profile 1.0 in the current charter to avoid complicated versioning
13:21:05 <kaz> q- Mc
13:21:10 <kaz> q- ml
13:21:28 <kaz> i/McCool ask the group/topic: Organization/
13:21:37 <kaz> i/agree we need/scribenick: kaz/
13:21:53 <kaz> i/should collect the points/scribenick: sebastian/
13:22:08 <McCool> ack mccool
13:22:08 <sebastian> MM: Proposal is do not mention any version number to be on the safe side
13:22:11 <McCool> q+
13:22:25 <kaz> ack ege
13:22:41 <sebastian> Ege: we should not do detail discussion yet
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13:23:41 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
13:24:21 <benfrancis> q?
13:24:26 <kaz> ack k
13:24:47 <sebastian> Kaz: we should be careful what is our expectations on profile in the charter
13:25:32 <sebastian> Ben: Im ok removing version number
13:26:20 <kaz> s/we should/agree. Again, a Charter document is abstract plan on our 2-year Charter period. So we should just explain what "WoT Profile" is like./
13:26:22 <kaz> q?
13:26:25 <kaz> q+
13:27:02 <kaz> topic: Publication status
13:27:31 <kaz> kaz: Profile WD was published yesterday, and TD 1.1, Discovery and Architecture 1.1 were published today./
13:27:39 <kaz> mm: will update the schedule
13:27:43 <kaz> ack mc
13:27:44 <sebastian> Ben: Profile document should be independent and not depend on Architecture
13:27:45 <kaz> ack k
13:27:52 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
13:28:05 <kaz> i/Profile/scribenick: kaz/
13:28:11 <kaz> i/Ben:/scribenick: sebastian/
13:28:34 <kaz> topic: Liaisons
13:28:52 <kaz> sk: we have good baseline for our building blocks
13:29:03 <kaz> ... should think about how to adopt to the other SDOs
13:29:16 <kaz> ... the next Charter should cooperate with well known SDOs
13:29:33 <kaz> ... which are focusing on industry standards
13:29:49 <kaz> ... e.g., ECLASS
13:30:13 <McCool> q+
13:30:38 <kaz> i|we have|@@@ url|
13:30:47 <kaz> sk: strong connection with OPC as well
13:31:20 <kaz> q+
13:31:40 <kaz> mm: don't think we can say "will" here
13:32:10 <kaz> ... that's too strong word to put here
13:32:28 <kaz> ... then the target should be OPC UA
13:32:30 <kaz> q?
13:32:32 <kaz> ack mc
13:32:44 <kaz> eb: good organization with 900 Members
13:33:03 <kaz> ... working on industry interoperability standards
13:33:26 <kaz> ... Sebastian and I are thinking about potential mapping between OPC UA and WoT
13:33:41 <kaz> mm: absolutely agree with the cooperation itself
13:33:52 <kaz> ... but we need to work with the W3M about the liaison
13:33:56 <sebastian> q?
13:34:01 <mlagally_> q+
13:34:24 <kaz> ... new W3C should be interested in industry adoption
13:35:00 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
13:35:09 <kaz> ack k
13:35:22 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2021/10/sdw-charter.html sdw wg charter
13:36:37 <kaz> kaz: I suggested we look at the SDW WG Charter as an example @@@
13:36:59 <kaz> sk: agree Charter is basic policy and plan
13:37:33 <kaz> ... however, there have been discussions between OPC and W3C
13:37:50 <kaz> kaz: I know, but we don't need to explain the history within the Charter
13:37:52 <kaz> ack ml
13:38:02 <kaz> ml: this is important initiative
13:38:36 <kaz> ... would it be possible to ask them to actively participate in the W3C WoT standardization work?
13:38:42 <kaz> mm: who do you mean?
13:39:08 <kaz> sk: there is a huge list here
13:39:18 <kaz> q?
13:39:20 <kaz> q+
13:39:26 <kaz> ack k
13:40:17 <kaz> (we should discuss how to make them participate separately)
13:41:21 <McCool> q?
13:41:23 <kaz> sk: (talks about Industrial Digital Twin Association)
13:41:48 <mlagally_> q+
13:41:54 <kaz> ... official liaison and close exchange to be done
13:42:37 <Ege> q+
13:42:39 <kaz> ml: call out Platform 4.0?
13:42:46 <kaz> sk: it's also included
13:42:56 <kaz> q?
13:43:01 <kaz> ack ml
13:43:03 <kaz> ack e
13:43:20 <kaz> ek: copied others from the current Charter
13:43:29 <kaz> ... and we should review this list again
13:43:37 <kaz> q+
13:44:23 <kaz> mm: (shows the rendered version)
13:44:30 <kaz> ... separate out the previous list
13:44:34 <kaz> ... pointing out the longer list
13:44:49 <kaz> ... which ones to be expected for collaboration?
13:45:13 <kaz> ek: should be a single list in the end
13:45:44 <kaz> q?
13:46:45 <kaz> kaz: I'm OK with merging this PR as the starting point with candidates
13:47:23 <mlagally_> q+
13:47:40 <kaz> ... but as I've been asking, we need to clarify how to get what kind of feedback
13:47:41 <kaz> [[
13:47:41 <kaz> xample deliverable template for liaisons:
13:47:41 <kaz> What: Binding Templates, Vocabulary and Ontology, Conformance tests
13:47:41 <kaz> How: A separate joint WG?, WoT WG as a joint WG?, a TF within the WoT WG?, just part of the TD/Binding discussion?
13:47:42 <kaz> Who: Editors from W3C, OPC and/or ECHONET?
13:47:44 <kaz> Resources: Technical Requirements for OPC UA liaison
13:47:46 <kaz> ]]
13:48:33 <kaz> s/feedback/feedback from whom. For example, directly to the WoT WG, via the WoT IG, via the WoT CG or via the WoT-JP CG/
13:49:01 <kaz> sk: agree we should make another iteration
13:49:05 <kaz> s/xample/Example/
13:49:28 <kaz> q+ Erich
13:49:31 <kaz> ack k
13:49:32 <kaz> ack ml
13:49:39 <kaz> ack eri
13:49:43 <kaz> q+ mlaglly_
13:50:00 <kaz> q+
13:50:51 <kaz> mm: need to capture the content for each org
13:51:25 <kaz> ml: would suggest we put some specific examples
13:51:31 <kaz> ... in some areas
13:51:41 <kaz> ... asking about the purpose of this list
13:51:50 <kaz> ... we should have good understanding
13:52:05 <kaz> ack ml
13:52:11 <sebastian> q+
13:52:16 <Ege> +1
13:52:19 <sebastian> +1
13:52:23 <kaz> ... exchanging opinions, asking reviews, etc.
13:52:38 <kaz> mm: complete list would be huge
13:52:54 <kaz> ... may be open-ended
13:53:10 <kaz> ... could list only new ones
13:53:19 <kaz> ml: sounds like a good idea
13:54:40 <mlagally_> q+
13:54:42 <mjk> q?
13:55:05 <kaz> kaz: would make sense to categorize our expectations and explain the expectation instead of the huge list
13:55:17 <kaz> ... can have actual list outside of the Charter doc
13:55:20 <kaz> ack k
13:55:22 <kaz> ack s
13:55:43 <kaz> sk: agree with Lagally that we should not just have a simple list
13:56:10 <kaz> ... we could tidy up the list a bit
13:56:25 <kaz> ... and need to identify why we need to have whom there
13:56:33 <kaz> mm: yeah, that's right
13:56:37 <benfrancis> q+
13:57:01 <kaz> ... on the other hand, we still have connection with SDOs from the prev Charter as well
13:57:24 <kaz> ml: for example, working closer with those SDOs on use cases, etc.
13:57:45 <kaz> bf: glad to see Digital Twin there
13:58:05 <kaz> ... but some of the listed entities are not SDOs
13:58:09 <kaz> eb: good question
13:58:18 <kaz> ... standardization takes long
13:58:39 <kaz> ... most of the reference implementation is done by DTC, for example
13:58:42 <mlagally_> q+
13:58:51 <kaz> s/there/Consortium there/
13:59:01 <kaz> ack b
13:59:15 <kaz> eb: I'm working on WoT within MS
13:59:19 <kaz> q+
13:59:36 <kaz> ml: we should some gap analysis
14:00:08 <kaz> ... coordination and alignment would be good
14:00:12 <kaz> q?
14:00:13 <kaz> ack ml
14:00:15 <McCool> ack m
14:01:17 <kaz> kaz: as mentioned 5 mins ago...
14:01:33 <kaz> mm: would have a link to a wiki page, for example
14:01:44 <kaz> ... let's continue the discussion on GitHub
14:01:51 <Ege> q+
14:01:53 <kaz> ... and find time for further discussion
14:01:55 <kaz> ack k
14:02:01 <kaz> ack e
14:02:28 <kaz> ek: we're asked to to think about the WoT CG collaboration as well
14:02:29 <kaz> q+
14:02:37 <sebastian> I have to go to next meeting
14:02:39 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1064
14:02:54 <kaz> ek: need review for the above PR 1064
14:03:13 <kaz> mm: unfortunately, we need much more time to finalize the Charter
14:03:43 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:03:45 <kaz> q-
14:03:51 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-wot-minutes.html kaz
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