17:45:39 RRSAgent has joined #aria 17:45:43 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-aria-irc 17:45:43 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:45:44 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn 17:45:47 chair: JamesNurthen 17:45:53 meeting: ARIA WG 17:56:35 agendabot, find agenda 17:56:35 jamesn, OK. This may take a minute... 17:56:36 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b92a902-1365-4ea0-8c68-9f8ae2106fe3/20230119T130000 17:56:36 clear agenda 17:56:36 agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3HdeV5Z 17:56:36 agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3WhAerc 17:56:38 agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates 17:56:41 agenda+ -> AriaAttributes has many integer attributes with string types https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1110 17:56:44 agenda+ -> Open ARIA PRs https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-asc+draft%3Afalse 17:56:47 agenda+ -> 1.3 blocking issues https://bit.ly/3IRlkVD 18:00:47 scotto has joined #aria 18:02:22 CurtBellew has joined #aria 18:02:33 StefanS has joined #aria 18:02:38 present+ 18:02:52 present+ 18:03:31 present+ 18:03:55 scribe: Adam_Page 18:03:55 zakim, next item 18:03:55 agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3HdeV5Z -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:03:56 sarah_higley has joined #aria 18:04:03 regrets+ ValerieYoung 18:04:11 regrets+ PeterKrautzberger 18:04:13 melsumner has joined #aria 18:04:33 present+ 18:04:35 jamesn: skip the dpub ones 18:04:41 present+ 18:04:42 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria 18:04:44 jamesn: #1858 18:04:45 present+ 18:05:09 jamesn: inconsistency with spec vs implementation of setting prop to undefined 18:05:26 jamesn: Chromium and Webkit both return null, Firefox returns "undefined" 18:05:41 jamesn: spec bug or implementation bug? 18:06:07 jamesn: cyns, would you like to raise in AOM? 18:06:37 cyns: yes, I’ll put on agenda next week 18:06:47 jamesn: any strong opinions here? 18:06:57 jamesn: #1857 18:07:15 jamesn: sounds like APG 18:07:28 scotto: yes, move it there; shouldn’t be in spec 18:07:45 jamesn: APG will triage it 18:07:52 jamesn: #162 18:08:17 jamesn: who can validate this? 18:08:40 scotto: I’ll ping this over to an Edge developer 18:09:00 present+ 18:09:25 zakim, next item 18:09:25 agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3WhAerc -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:09:40 jamesn: #1159 18:10:42 jamesn: reviewers? 18:10:46 chlane: me 18:10:49 melsumner: me 18:10:55 zakim, next item 18:10:55 agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:11:12 jamesn: do we want any deep dives for the next few weeks? 18:11:58 cyns: might want to talk to Aaron about aria-haspopup 18:12:05 jamesn: no schedule for now 18:12:06 zakim, next item 18:12:06 agendum 4 -- -> AriaAttributes has many integer attributes with string types https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1110 -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:13:04 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1110#issuecomment-548651464 18:13:25 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1110#issuecomment-1381052682 18:13:49 jamesn: it’s been shipping for 5 years 18:14:01 cyns: might be worth running by AOM to see if anyone’s changed their position 18:14:37 cyns: after we get thoughts from AOM, I’ll talk to Domenic and see if he still cares 18:14:47 jamesn: it certainly needs a good deal of consideration if we’re going to change it 18:15:03 cyns: I’ll put on AOM agenda 18:15:21 zakim, next item 18:15:21 agendum 5 -- -> Open ARIA PRs https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-asc+draft%3Afalse -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:15:54 jamesn: #1020 18:16:05 jamesn: we’re not doing this anymore, right? 18:16:28 scotto: I think I was going to do something with this, but now it’s not relevant after recent changes 18:16:42 scotto: this PR is no longer useful in its current form; it’d need to be redone 18:17:03 jamesn: closed 18:17:12 jamesn: #1127 18:17:50 jamesn: HTML always uses “may” as normative, but we only use it as normative when uppercased 18:18:01 jcraig: doesn’t ReSpec force the casing? 18:18:15 jcraig: should be easy sub from may to might 18:18:45 jcraig: spectranaut will pick this up for the next spec version 18:19:11 present + 18:19:13 present+ 18:19:14 s/jcraig: spectranaut/jamesn: spectranaut/ 18:20:26 jamesn: we’re already very clear when something is normative 18:21:27 mattking: I prefer reserving words as either normative or non-normative; using case to convey that makes it difficult to interpret 18:21:42 jamesn: #1454 18:21:54 sarah_higley: in the middle of updating this 18:22:09 sarah_higley: a commenter pointed out some missing roles, so taking another pass 18:22:28 jamesn: #1494 18:22:33 jamesn: this is on my plate 18:22:58 jamesn: it sounds simple and could be simple, but it would be kind of a “hidden” requirement in its current location in the spec 18:23:08 jamesn: wouldn’t be easy for authors to know whether they’re meeting this 18:24:01 melsumner: I wonder if this would help people, because if it’s in the spec, we can have it in rules, checkers 18:24:14 melsumner: so maybe not too helpful when just reading the spec, but it would help for automated testing 18:24:25 melsumner: so this could be a first practical step 18:24:39 jamesn: so shall we merge this as-is, and then create a follow-up issue to clarify? 18:26:09 Unfortenately I need to drop. 18:26:23 jamesn: could there be corner cases? 18:26:41 jamesn: tabindex="-1" on some things, where it’s focusable but often *cannot* get focus 18:26:56 scotto: it already does the conflict resolution 18:27:02 scotto: it _should_ fail 18:27:17 jamesn: we‘ll merge this and then file a follow-up issue 18:27:42 resolution: Merge #1494 and file a follow up issue 18:27:52 jamesn: #1588 18:28:39 jamesn: will anyone review this? 18:29:41 Matt_King has joined #aria 18:30:01 melsumner: I’ll review 18:30:11 present+ 18:30:22 jamesn: #1639 18:31:34 scotto: this PR has been done for a while 18:31:36 jamesn: it’s mergeable now 18:31:42 jamesn: jcraig, would you review this? 18:31:47 jcraig: yes 18:32:31 jamesn: will someone else review? 18:32:50 jcraig: does it make sense to tag this editorial? 18:32:59 jamesn: if so, please tag it 18:33:43 jamesn: #1733 18:33:58 jamesn: there’s a merge conflict 18:34:11 jamesn: chlane, was your question answered? 18:34:54 jamesn: this conflict looks like something I can resolve 18:35:03 jamesn: I’ll take assignment 18:35:09 jamesn: #1738 18:35:39 jamesn: this is overcome by events, right? 18:35:50 jcraig: yes, I think so 18:35:58 jcraig: yes, close as won’t fix 18:36:35 jamesn: I‘ll leave issue #1732 open 18:36:57 jamesn: PR #1738 doesn’t fix it 18:37:24 jcraig: I’d defer to Anna and Nolan 18:37:29 jamesn: #1787 18:37:53 jcraig: I’ll review this 18:38:15 jcraig: yes, this seems like a good clarity change 18:38:32 jamesn: any other reviewers? 18:38:44 scotto: put me on it too 18:38:51 chlane: I’ll review 18:39:00 jamesn: #1793 18:39:10 jamesn: we’ve talked about this many times 18:39:26 jamesn: addressed by #1454, might be overcome by events 18:39:31 jamesn: #1811 18:39:48 jamesn: seems to be editorial 18:40:17 jamesn: the statement is normative, but we’re just moving it in the spec 18:40:23 jamesn: can I merge this? 18:40:25 jcraig: yes 18:40:29 jamesn: merging now 18:40:46 jamesn: tagging as editorial 18:41:08 jamesn: #1812 18:41:41 jamesn: I need to write a test for this 18:42:17 jamesn: #1827 18:42:29 chlane: I need group input 18:43:20 chlane: there are open questions about existing statements 18:43:28 jamesn: I‘ll agenda this for next week 18:43:35 jamesn: #1830 18:44:10 jamesn: still need to complete review 18:44:20 scotto: I’ll review 18:44:30 jamesn: #1833 18:46:25 scotto: quick question related to #1830 18:46:54 scotto: a div with contenteditable gets mapped to a text box in HTML 18:47:09 scotto: been talking to Aaron about how that’s problematic, especially in Windows 18:47:11 jongund has joined #aria 18:47:24 scotto: e.g., JAWS doesn’t want this role mapping 18:47:56 jcraig: in the past, suggested host language reserved roles for this 18:48:16 jcraig: can’t map 1-to-1 with ARIA roles 18:48:28 jcraig: there’s a valid case for not mapping contenteditable to textbox 18:48:46 Matt_King: in those cases, shouldn’t we require explicit use of role=textbox? 18:49:08 scotto: good segue to PR we discussed last week re: “minimum role” 18:49:20 scotto: jcraig, would you review that? 18:49:39 jcraig: yes 18:50:11 jamesn: added jcraig to #454 18:50:18 jamesn: #1834 18:50:27 jamesn: this can be merged 18:50:36 jamesn: it’s editorial 18:50:47 scotto: this PR expands on what the deletion role means 18:51:14 jamesn: #1852 18:51:26 jamesn: I need to fix some grammar, and melsumner, will you review? 18:51:28 melsumner: yes 18:51:34 jamesn: #1856 18:51:41 jamesn: we got through them all! 18:51:46 jamesn: and even closed some 18:51:55 zakim, next item 18:51:55 agendum 6 -- -> 1.3 blocking issues https://bit.ly/3IRlkVD -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:52:02 jamesn: don’t need to go through 1.3 today 18:52:33 zakim, end meeting 18:52:33 As of this point the attendees have been StefanS, jamesn, Adam_Page, jcraig, melsumner, MarkMcCarthy, scotto, CurtBellew, Matt_King 18:52:35 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:52:37 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-aria-minutes.html Zakim 18:52:44 I am happy to have been of service, Adam_Page; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 18:52:44 Zakim has left #aria 20:15:45 quit 21:26:00 jongund has joined #aria 21:51:12 zakim, end meeting 21:51:22 rrsagent, leave 21:51:22 I see no action items