13:38:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rqtf
13:38:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-rqtf-irc
13:38:34 <Joshue10_> Joshue10_ has joined #rqtf
13:39:22 <scott_h> zakim, clear agenda
13:39:22 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:41:07 <scott_h> agenda+ Proposed upcoming joint meeting - planning and discussion.
13:42:07 <scott_h> agenda+ Revising the RQTF Work Statement.
13:42:37 <scott_h> agenda+ Web of Things: APA Working Group review.
13:43:07 <scott_h> agenda+ Task Force publications.
13:43:25 <scott_h> agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.
13:44:20 <scott_h> chair: Scott_h
13:44:50 <Joshue10_> Joshue10_ has joined #rqtf
13:45:08 <scott_h> trackbot, start meeting
13:45:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:45:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
13:45:14 <trackbot> Date: 11 January 2023
13:45:36 <scott_h> present+
13:46:20 <scott_h> agenda?
13:47:17 <janina> janina has joined #rqtf
13:47:32 <janina> zakim, who's here?
13:47:32 <Zakim> Present: scott_h
13:47:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, Joshue10_, RRSAgent, Zakim, scott_h, Joshue108_, MichaelC, trackbot, Joshue108
13:47:40 <janina> agenda?
13:53:08 <janina> present+
13:57:53 <jpaton> jpaton has joined #rqtf
14:00:26 <Joshue10_> present+
14:01:31 <janina> present+
14:01:31 <Joshue108_> Scribe: Joshue108
14:01:32 <Joshue108_> agenda?
14:01:37 <Joshue108_> zakim, agenda?
14:01:37 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
14:01:39 <Zakim> 1. Proposed upcoming joint meeting - planning and discussion. [from scott_h]
14:01:39 <Zakim> 2. Revising the RQTF Work Statement. [from scott_h]
14:01:39 <Zakim> 3. Web of Things: APA Working Group review. [from scott_h]
14:01:40 <Zakim> 4. Task Force publications. [from scott_h]
14:01:40 <Zakim> 5. Miscellaneous topics. [from scott_h]
14:02:06 <SteveNoble> SteveNoble has joined #rqtf
14:02:18 <SteveNoble> present+
14:03:04 <Joshue108_> SH: Welcome everyone
14:03:04 <Joshue108_> great to have you all here
14:03:04 <Joshue108_> Please do mention names before you speak for interpreter
14:03:10 <jpaton> present+ John_Paton
14:03:15 <Joshue108_> zakim, next item
14:03:15 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Proposed upcoming joint meeting - planning and discussion. -- taken up [from scott_h]
14:03:43 <MichaelC> present+
14:03:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #rqtf
14:04:03 <Joshue108_> SH: We are looking at a joint meeting with COGA
14:04:11 <Joshue108_> JS: Its in two weeks
14:04:19 <Joshue108_> <Janina gives background>
14:04:20 <Roy> Roy has joined #rqtf
14:04:35 <Joshue108_> JS: Last time we were at odds over one of our previous documents
14:04:50 <Roy> present+
14:04:50 <Joshue108_> Lisa asked for a chat regarding how we go about research etc
14:05:11 <Joshue108_> JS: This seemed like a reasonable thing
14:05:32 <Joshue108_> The AGWG chairs have also asked to participate and asked some of the Low Vision TF to get involved
14:05:55 <Joshue108_> There will be other groups
14:06:17 <Joshue108_> Rachael, AGWG chair - suggested creating a simple overview document
14:06:55 <Joshue108_> This group has the best in terms of academic research - there are others in COGA and elsewhere, who have access to Uni libraries and databases etc
14:07:34 <Joshue108_> We should prepare, agenda etc
14:07:34 <Joshue108_> The proposal is for this time, in two weeks on Jan 25th
14:07:36 <Joshue108_> q?
14:07:50 <Joshue108_> SH: Any other comments?
14:08:27 <Joshue108_> SH: Regarding the one pager is this something they want before the meeting?
14:08:32 <Joshue108_> JS: No
14:08:48 <Joshue108_> s/JS: No/
14:08:58 <Joshue108_> SH: Not a burdensome task etc
14:09:25 <Joshue108_> Whatever structure they like we can do
14:09:40 <Joshue108_> JS: We can ask others to review and make sure it captures their view points etc
14:10:05 <Joshue108_> SH: Its good that its on the same time
14:10:36 <Joshue108_> <discussion on timezones>
14:11:15 <Joshue108_> SH: I did want to raise something - about channels or options for people to submit issues
14:11:34 <Joshue108_> I've expanded on this in the Collaboration doc
14:12:08 <Joshue108_> Do we still want to emphasise Github? Or talk about other options.
14:12:23 <Joshue108_> JS: I think they are interested - we will be talking about this on the 25th
14:13:02 <Joshue108_> We need to be patient and allow for a small set of acceptable formats etc
14:13:20 <Joshue108_> In the AAC symbols candidate REC, we applied these principles
14:13:29 <Joshue108_> One issue, or one email per comment
14:13:36 <Joshue108_> JOC: +1 that would be a big help
14:14:23 <Joshue108_> JS: If we give people a Google doc, you can get boxes that force organisation - that could be encouraging
14:14:24 <Joshue108_> q?
14:14:51 <Joshue108_> RK: Question about Rachael in AGWG
14:16:10 <Joshue108_> JS: Getting back to process
14:16:23 <Joshue108_> We are developing an agenda - how we do things, share comments etc
14:16:49 <Joshue108_> JS: The last thing, is at what point do we need review from sister groups in WAI
14:17:46 <Joshue108_> JS: Publication should not be help up as comments come in.
14:18:06 <Josh_test> Josh_test has joined #rqtf
14:18:12 <MichaelC> q+
14:18:59 <Joshue108_> JS: Last call etc needs to be informally presented - as it is useful only for addition comments
14:19:23 <Joshue108_> MC: I can add something here.
14:19:33 <Joshue108_> Last call was replaced by wide review - same thing really
14:20:05 <Joshue108_> There is a need for others to check this work, even up to the last
14:20:09 <Joshue108_> so we need to be careful
14:20:34 <Joshue108_> MC: Its good to have lists of things that can be sorted out, in time lines that are sensible etc
14:20:39 <MichaelC> ack me
14:20:49 <Joshue108_> JS: Referring to that agreement is good.
14:21:10 <Joshue108_> JS: My issue is when we invite for early look, and review but we get nothing
14:21:22 <Joshue108_> MC: Lets discuss on the WAI co-ordination call
14:21:42 <Joshue108_> SH: I understand the need for this process
14:21:50 <Josh_test> q?
14:22:17 <Joshue108_> LW: Still early days on the privacy credentials work, do you agree?
14:22:19 <Joshue108_> SH: Yes
14:22:23 <Joshue108_> LW: Ok
14:23:10 <scott_h> open agendum  2
14:23:42 <Joshue108_> JS: this is useful for us to review what is in our work statement
14:24:11 <Joshue108_> This group doesn't do normative deliverables but we have a series of user needs documents, and having a list of future work, that would be helpful
14:24:26 <Joshue108_> JS: APA is rechartering
14:24:47 <Joshue108_> Our current charter expires in July this year
14:24:58 <Joshue108_> We need to look at what we may accomplish in the next two years
14:25:07 <Joshue108_> APA would like to get this done in Jan
14:25:26 <Joshue108_> JS: We expect edits and questions etc - this will go to a vote in the AC
14:26:06 <Joshue108_> Last charter timeline was tight last time
14:26:26 <Joshue108_> JS: Lets look at this next week
14:26:30 <Joshue108_> Jason is back then also
14:27:01 <Joshue108_> JS: Comments?
14:27:30 <scott_h> open agendum  3
14:27:35 <Joshue108_> SH: Lets discuss next week
14:27:46 <scott_h> open agendum  3
14:28:24 <Joshue108_> SH: Janina you raised this on WoT?
14:28:36 <Joshue108_> JS: Yes, a big topic
14:29:06 <Joshue108_> APA does horizontal review, and we have been reviewing their WoT docs and meeting with them etc
14:29:31 <Joshue108_> We helped them identify the 'Middleware' piece that helps drive many devices and AI
14:29:57 <Joshue108_> The configuring app can be a very inaccessible process - they didn't object this this idea
14:30:15 <Joshue108_> Another topic is failure recovery - things happen when things stop working.
14:30:46 <Joshue108_> JS: Where I work an accident brought down wiring but a lot of the county had no power.
14:31:18 <Joshue108_> <Janina gives more detail on the restarting by hand, rebooting of domestic appliances etc>
14:31:39 <Joshue108_> Failure recovery or return to operability is not automatic - and needs to be managed better
14:31:56 <Joshue108_> APA reviews W3C specs - and were asked to review the WoT architecture
14:32:22 <Joshue108_> We got our best minds on the topic - Gottfried Zimmerman did his Phd in this area
14:32:38 <Joshue108_> and we asked him and his students to review these WoT docs
14:33:00 <Joshue108_> There are potential additions - failure recovery is not listed
14:33:12 <Joshue108_> They are proposing an a11y considerations statement
14:33:38 <Joshue108_> Gottfried says most engineers will read the docs that tell them what to build
14:34:04 <Joshue108_> This is a good argument - we have editing to do before we sign off on this WoT architecture
14:34:28 <Joshue108_> Finally, there is Matter - a standard from FIDO which may do away with this middleware
14:34:42 <Joshue108_> There are no devices I can find - we need to talk with them
14:35:29 <Joshue108_> SH: Is Matter looking at centralising the middleware across platforms?
14:35:41 <Joshue108_> JS: Yes, Google Apple and MS are supporting
14:35:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> A link to matter, https://csa-iot.org/all-solutions/matter/
14:35:58 <Joshue108_> SH: Comments?
14:36:07 <Josh_test> q?
14:36:56 <Joshue108_> JOC: If there was any update on the user needs and requirements piece since I've been away?
14:37:02 <Joshue108_> SH: Don't think so.
14:37:19 <Joshue108_> JOC: Could be worth following up on when Jason gets back.
14:37:25 <janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2023Jan/0000.html
14:37:28 <Joshue108_> SH: Lets do that.
14:37:49 <Joshue108_> SH: Are those docs ready that we can provide feedback on?
14:38:52 <Joshue108_> JS: APA needs RQTF help with this - we should reachout to them promptly
14:39:51 <Joshue108_> JS: Links are in that doc
14:40:17 <Joshue108_> JS: The only new thing since Josh left us - is failure recovery
14:40:39 <Joshue108_> JOC: I like that, its comprehensive and does what it says
14:40:56 <Joshue108_> JS: Its a thing
14:41:09 <Joshue108_> Could be a real problem for some folks
14:41:42 <Joshue108_> SH: Recovery expectations can differ - and the steps may not be clear
14:41:50 <Joshue108_> q+
14:42:03 <Joshue108_> SH: Can we do this next week?
14:42:12 <Joshue108_> ack me
14:43:16 <Joshue108_> JOC: I like Scotts recovery expectations is a great abstraction and a useful discussion point for that doc
14:43:37 <scott_h> open agendum 4
14:44:14 <Joshue108_> SH: In terms of Collaboration tools there is only one comment
14:44:35 <Joshue108_> JS: Yeah, we didn't get much
14:44:42 <Joshue108_> We should have another stab at this
14:44:53 <Joshue108_> I think there are more things that people will want to say
14:45:19 <MichaelC> q+
14:45:28 <Joshue108_> JS: How can we get more coverage, we could reannouce it etc
14:45:38 <Joshue108_> SH: COGA also said they had things they wanted to share.
14:46:06 <Joshue108_> SH: Think its not in a state to progress yet
14:46:09 <MichaelC> ack me
14:46:20 <Joshue108_> MC: The messaging maybe isn't clear about the scope of the document
14:46:41 <Joshue108_> It is more than just Zoom stuff - so more examples that draw people in would be good.
14:46:58 <Joshue108_> JS: Yeah, this could help the industry fix things we don't like
14:47:11 <Joshue108_> Its not so much RTC type stuff - like shared editing etc
14:47:43 <Joshue108_> SH: People could have gotten the wrong idea
14:47:50 <Joshue108_> Lets discuss next week with Jason
14:48:23 <Joshue108_> JS: Yeah, it is rather general
14:48:51 <Joshue108_> MC: We can improve it - a less technical summary would be helpful
14:48:59 <Joshue108_> JS: I'll have a go at the intro
14:49:15 <Joshue108_> JS: Plain language
14:49:55 <Joshue108_> SH: Any other projects to mention?
14:50:11 <Joshue108_> JS: We did have the Natural Language interfaces document
14:50:25 <Joshue108_> You should look at GPT!
14:50:35 <Joshue108_> SH: No updates since the last meeting?
14:50:49 <Joshue108_> s/last meeting?/last meeting
14:51:06 <Joshue108_> JS: ETS wanted something like this in our pipeline
14:51:37 <Joshue108_> JS: Lionel would say play with this in openai.com
14:52:43 <Joshue108_> <discussion on GPT>
14:54:32 <Joshue108_> JS: GPT could have interesting implications for AAC etc
14:55:48 <Joshue108_> SH: Anything else to discuss?
14:55:51 <scott_h> open agendum  5
14:56:31 <Joshue108_> RK: I was playing with Astro - Robotics security service from Amazon
14:56:47 <Joshue108_> Not at all accessible, there is a lot of spoken interaction
14:57:04 <Joshue108_> There are visual interactions also
14:57:36 <Joshue108_> JS: We may have another user requirements document - if user needs and modes of interaction are not being served?
14:57:58 <Joshue108_> JS: May be media - but maybe not just that.
14:58:11 <Joshue108_> MC: Some of the *aur docs could use updating
14:58:23 <Joshue108_> *aur could be topic in itself
14:58:26 <Joshue108_> +1 to Michael
14:59:56 <Joshue108_> JOC: The whole concept of multimodality isn't understood so this is a good idea- having a baseline doc that is tech agostic could be fitted to multiple technologies
14:59:56 <Josh_test> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-rqtf-minutes.html Josh_test
15:01:27 <scott_h> trackbot, end meeting
15:01:27 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:01:27 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been scott_h, janina, Joshue10_, SteveNoble, John_Paton, MichaelC, Roy
15:01:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:01:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-rqtf-minutes.html trackbot
15:01:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:01:41 <RRSAgent> I see no action items