IRC log of rqtf on 2023-01-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:38:25 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rqtf

13:38:30 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-rqtf-irc

13:38:34 [Joshue10_]

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13:39:22 [scott_h]

zakim, clear agenda

13:39:22 [Zakim]

agenda cleared

13:41:07 [scott_h]

agenda+ Proposed upcoming joint meeting - planning and discussion.

13:42:07 [scott_h]

agenda+ Revising the RQTF Work Statement.

13:42:37 [scott_h]

agenda+ Web of Things: APA Working Group review.

13:43:07 [scott_h]

agenda+ Task Force publications.

13:43:25 [scott_h]

agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.

13:44:20 [scott_h]

chair: Scott_h

13:44:50 [Joshue10_]

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13:45:08 [scott_h]

trackbot, start meeting

13:45:11 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:45:14 [trackbot]

Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

13:45:14 [trackbot]

Date: 11 January 2023

13:45:36 [scott_h]

present+

13:46:20 [scott_h]

agenda?

13:47:17 [janina]

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13:47:32 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

13:47:32 [Zakim]

Present: scott_h

13:47:34 [Zakim]

On IRC I see janina, Joshue10_, RRSAgent, Zakim, scott_h, Joshue108_, MichaelC, trackbot, Joshue108

13:47:40 [janina]

agenda?

13:53:08 [janina]

present+

13:57:53 [jpaton]

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14:00:26 [Joshue10_]

present+

14:01:31 [janina]

present+

14:01:31 [Joshue108_]

Scribe: Joshue108

14:01:32 [Joshue108_]

agenda?

14:01:37 [Joshue108_]

zakim, agenda?

14:01:37 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:

14:01:39 [Zakim]

1. Proposed upcoming joint meeting - planning and discussion. [from scott_h]

14:01:39 [Zakim]

2. Revising the RQTF Work Statement. [from scott_h]

14:01:39 [Zakim]

3. Web of Things: APA Working Group review. [from scott_h]

14:01:40 [Zakim]

4. Task Force publications. [from scott_h]

14:01:40 [Zakim]

5. Miscellaneous topics. [from scott_h]

14:02:06 [SteveNoble]

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14:02:18 [SteveNoble]

present+

14:03:04 [Joshue108_]

SH: Welcome everyone

14:03:04 [Joshue108_]

great to have you all here

14:03:04 [Joshue108_]

Please do mention names before you speak for interpreter

14:03:10 [jpaton]

present+ John_Paton

14:03:15 [Joshue108_]

zakim, next item

14:03:15 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Proposed upcoming joint meeting - planning and discussion. -- taken up [from scott_h]

14:03:43 [MichaelC]

present+

14:03:53 [Lionel_Wolberger]

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14:04:03 [Joshue108_]

SH: We are looking at a joint meeting with COGA

14:04:11 [Joshue108_]

JS: Its in two weeks

14:04:19 [Joshue108_]

<Janina gives background>

14:04:20 [Roy]

Roy has joined #rqtf

14:04:35 [Joshue108_]

JS: Last time we were at odds over one of our previous documents

14:04:50 [Roy]

present+

14:04:50 [Joshue108_]

Lisa asked for a chat regarding how we go about research etc

14:05:11 [Joshue108_]

JS: This seemed like a reasonable thing

14:05:32 [Joshue108_]

The AGWG chairs have also asked to participate and asked some of the Low Vision TF to get involved

14:05:55 [Joshue108_]

There will be other groups

14:06:17 [Joshue108_]

Rachael, AGWG chair - suggested creating a simple overview document

14:06:55 [Joshue108_]

This group has the best in terms of academic research - there are others in COGA and elsewhere, who have access to Uni libraries and databases etc

14:07:34 [Joshue108_]

We should prepare, agenda etc

14:07:34 [Joshue108_]

The proposal is for this time, in two weeks on Jan 25th

14:07:36 [Joshue108_]

q?

14:07:50 [Joshue108_]

SH: Any other comments?

14:08:27 [Joshue108_]

SH: Regarding the one pager is this something they want before the meeting?

14:08:32 [Joshue108_]

JS: No

14:08:48 [Joshue108_]

s/JS: No/

14:08:58 [Joshue108_]

SH: Not a burdensome task etc

14:09:25 [Joshue108_]

Whatever structure they like we can do

14:09:40 [Joshue108_]

JS: We can ask others to review and make sure it captures their view points etc

14:10:05 [Joshue108_]

SH: Its good that its on the same time

14:10:36 [Joshue108_]

<discussion on timezones>

14:11:15 [Joshue108_]

SH: I did want to raise something - about channels or options for people to submit issues

14:11:34 [Joshue108_]

I've expanded on this in the Collaboration doc

14:12:08 [Joshue108_]

Do we still want to emphasise Github? Or talk about other options.

14:12:23 [Joshue108_]

JS: I think they are interested - we will be talking about this on the 25th

14:13:02 [Joshue108_]

We need to be patient and allow for a small set of acceptable formats etc

14:13:20 [Joshue108_]

In the AAC symbols candidate REC, we applied these principles

14:13:29 [Joshue108_]

One issue, or one email per comment

14:13:36 [Joshue108_]

JOC: +1 that would be a big help

14:14:23 [Joshue108_]

JS: If we give people a Google doc, you can get boxes that force organisation - that could be encouraging

14:14:24 [Joshue108_]

q?

14:14:51 [Joshue108_]

RK: Question about Rachael in AGWG

14:16:10 [Joshue108_]

JS: Getting back to process

14:16:23 [Joshue108_]

We are developing an agenda - how we do things, share comments etc

14:16:49 [Joshue108_]

JS: The last thing, is at what point do we need review from sister groups in WAI

14:17:46 [Joshue108_]

JS: Publication should not be help up as comments come in.

14:18:06 [Josh_test]

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14:18:12 [MichaelC]

q+

14:18:59 [Joshue108_]

JS: Last call etc needs to be informally presented - as it is useful only for addition comments

14:19:23 [Joshue108_]

MC: I can add something here.

14:19:33 [Joshue108_]

Last call was replaced by wide review - same thing really

14:20:05 [Joshue108_]

There is a need for others to check this work, even up to the last

14:20:09 [Joshue108_]

so we need to be careful

14:20:34 [Joshue108_]

MC: Its good to have lists of things that can be sorted out, in time lines that are sensible etc

14:20:39 [MichaelC]

ack me

14:20:49 [Joshue108_]

JS: Referring to that agreement is good.

14:21:10 [Joshue108_]

JS: My issue is when we invite for early look, and review but we get nothing

14:21:22 [Joshue108_]

MC: Lets discuss on the WAI co-ordination call

14:21:42 [Joshue108_]

SH: I understand the need for this process

14:21:50 [Josh_test]

q?

14:22:17 [Joshue108_]

LW: Still early days on the privacy credentials work, do you agree?

14:22:19 [Joshue108_]

SH: Yes

14:22:23 [Joshue108_]

LW: Ok

14:23:10 [scott_h]

open agendum 2

14:23:42 [Joshue108_]

JS: this is useful for us to review what is in our work statement

14:24:11 [Joshue108_]

This group doesn't do normative deliverables but we have a series of user needs documents, and having a list of future work, that would be helpful

14:24:26 [Joshue108_]

JS: APA is rechartering

14:24:47 [Joshue108_]

Our current charter expires in July this year

14:24:58 [Joshue108_]

We need to look at what we may accomplish in the next two years

14:25:07 [Joshue108_]

APA would like to get this done in Jan

14:25:26 [Joshue108_]

JS: We expect edits and questions etc - this will go to a vote in the AC

14:26:06 [Joshue108_]

Last charter timeline was tight last time

14:26:26 [Joshue108_]

JS: Lets look at this next week

14:26:30 [Joshue108_]

Jason is back then also

14:27:01 [Joshue108_]

JS: Comments?

14:27:30 [scott_h]

open agendum 3

14:27:35 [Joshue108_]

SH: Lets discuss next week

14:27:46 [scott_h]

open agendum 3

14:28:24 [Joshue108_]

SH: Janina you raised this on WoT?

14:28:36 [Joshue108_]

JS: Yes, a big topic

14:29:06 [Joshue108_]

APA does horizontal review, and we have been reviewing their WoT docs and meeting with them etc

14:29:31 [Joshue108_]

We helped them identify the 'Middleware' piece that helps drive many devices and AI

14:29:57 [Joshue108_]

The configuring app can be a very inaccessible process - they didn't object this this idea

14:30:15 [Joshue108_]

Another topic is failure recovery - things happen when things stop working.

14:30:46 [Joshue108_]

JS: Where I work an accident brought down wiring but a lot of the county had no power.

14:31:18 [Joshue108_]

<Janina gives more detail on the restarting by hand, rebooting of domestic appliances etc>

14:31:39 [Joshue108_]

Failure recovery or return to operability is not automatic - and needs to be managed better

14:31:56 [Joshue108_]

APA reviews W3C specs - and were asked to review the WoT architecture

14:32:22 [Joshue108_]

We got our best minds on the topic - Gottfried Zimmerman did his Phd in this area

14:32:38 [Joshue108_]

and we asked him and his students to review these WoT docs

14:33:00 [Joshue108_]

There are potential additions - failure recovery is not listed

14:33:12 [Joshue108_]

They are proposing an a11y considerations statement

14:33:38 [Joshue108_]

Gottfried says most engineers will read the docs that tell them what to build

14:34:04 [Joshue108_]

This is a good argument - we have editing to do before we sign off on this WoT architecture

14:34:28 [Joshue108_]

Finally, there is Matter - a standard from FIDO which may do away with this middleware

14:34:42 [Joshue108_]

There are no devices I can find - we need to talk with them

14:35:29 [Joshue108_]

SH: Is Matter looking at centralising the middleware across platforms?

14:35:41 [Joshue108_]

JS: Yes, Google Apple and MS are supporting

14:35:45 [Lionel_Wolberger]

A link to matter, https://csa-iot.org/all-solutions/matter/

14:35:58 [Joshue108_]

SH: Comments?

14:36:07 [Josh_test]

q?

14:36:56 [Joshue108_]

JOC: If there was any update on the user needs and requirements piece since I've been away?

14:37:02 [Joshue108_]

SH: Don't think so.

14:37:19 [Joshue108_]

JOC: Could be worth following up on when Jason gets back.

14:37:25 [janina]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2023Jan/0000.html

14:37:28 [Joshue108_]

SH: Lets do that.

14:37:49 [Joshue108_]

SH: Are those docs ready that we can provide feedback on?

14:38:52 [Joshue108_]

JS: APA needs RQTF help with this - we should reachout to them promptly

14:39:51 [Joshue108_]

JS: Links are in that doc

14:40:17 [Joshue108_]

JS: The only new thing since Josh left us - is failure recovery

14:40:39 [Joshue108_]

JOC: I like that, its comprehensive and does what it says

14:40:56 [Joshue108_]

JS: Its a thing

14:41:09 [Joshue108_]

Could be a real problem for some folks

14:41:42 [Joshue108_]

SH: Recovery expectations can differ - and the steps may not be clear

14:41:50 [Joshue108_]

q+

14:42:03 [Joshue108_]

SH: Can we do this next week?

14:42:12 [Joshue108_]

ack me

14:43:16 [Joshue108_]

JOC: I like Scotts recovery expectations is a great abstraction and a useful discussion point for that doc

14:43:37 [scott_h]

open agendum 4

14:44:14 [Joshue108_]

SH: In terms of Collaboration tools there is only one comment

14:44:35 [Joshue108_]

JS: Yeah, we didn't get much

14:44:42 [Joshue108_]

We should have another stab at this

14:44:53 [Joshue108_]

I think there are more things that people will want to say

14:45:19 [MichaelC]

q+

14:45:28 [Joshue108_]

JS: How can we get more coverage, we could reannouce it etc

14:45:38 [Joshue108_]

SH: COGA also said they had things they wanted to share.

14:46:06 [Joshue108_]

SH: Think its not in a state to progress yet

14:46:09 [MichaelC]

ack me

14:46:20 [Joshue108_]

MC: The messaging maybe isn't clear about the scope of the document

14:46:41 [Joshue108_]

It is more than just Zoom stuff - so more examples that draw people in would be good.

14:46:58 [Joshue108_]

JS: Yeah, this could help the industry fix things we don't like

14:47:11 [Joshue108_]

Its not so much RTC type stuff - like shared editing etc

14:47:43 [Joshue108_]

SH: People could have gotten the wrong idea

14:47:50 [Joshue108_]

Lets discuss next week with Jason

14:48:23 [Joshue108_]

JS: Yeah, it is rather general

14:48:51 [Joshue108_]

MC: We can improve it - a less technical summary would be helpful

14:48:59 [Joshue108_]

JS: I'll have a go at the intro

14:49:15 [Joshue108_]

JS: Plain language

14:49:55 [Joshue108_]

SH: Any other projects to mention?

14:50:11 [Joshue108_]

JS: We did have the Natural Language interfaces document

14:50:25 [Joshue108_]

You should look at GPT!

14:50:35 [Joshue108_]

SH: No updates since the last meeting?

14:50:49 [Joshue108_]

s/last meeting?/last meeting

14:51:06 [Joshue108_]

JS: ETS wanted something like this in our pipeline

14:51:37 [Joshue108_]

JS: Lionel would say play with this in openai.com

14:52:43 [Joshue108_]

<discussion on GPT>

14:54:32 [Joshue108_]

JS: GPT could have interesting implications for AAC etc

14:55:48 [Joshue108_]

SH: Anything else to discuss?

14:55:51 [scott_h]

open agendum 5

14:56:31 [Joshue108_]

RK: I was playing with Astro - Robotics security service from Amazon

14:56:47 [Joshue108_]

Not at all accessible, there is a lot of spoken interaction

14:57:04 [Joshue108_]

There are visual interactions also

14:57:36 [Joshue108_]

JS: We may have another user requirements document - if user needs and modes of interaction are not being served?

14:57:58 [Joshue108_]

JS: May be media - but maybe not just that.

14:58:11 [Joshue108_]

MC: Some of the *aur docs could use updating

14:58:23 [Joshue108_]

*aur could be topic in itself

14:58:26 [Joshue108_]

+1 to Michael

14:59:56 [Joshue108_]

JOC: The whole concept of multimodality isn't understood so this is a good idea- having a baseline doc that is tech agostic could be fitted to multiple technologies

14:59:56 [Josh_test]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:59:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-rqtf-minutes.html Josh_test

15:01:27 [scott_h]

trackbot, end meeting

15:01:27 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

15:01:27 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been scott_h, janina, Joshue10_, SteveNoble, John_Paton, MichaelC, Roy

15:01:35 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

15:01:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/11-rqtf-minutes.html trackbot

15:01:41 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

15:01:41 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items