16:48:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:49:00 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-rdf-star-irc
16:49:00 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:49:01 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin
16:49:06 <pchampin> meeting: RDF-star WG
16:49:55 <pchampin> previous meeting: previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2022/12/22-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:50:09 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdf-star
16:51:27 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-star
16:56:43 <remiceres> remiceres has joined #rdf-star
16:58:18 <ora> ora has joined #rdf-star
16:58:51 <ora> Looking for an RDF-star meeting... ;-)
16:58:56 <enrico> enrico has joined #rdf-star
16:59:03 <enrico> present+
16:59:35 <AndyS> present+
17:00:01 <ora> present+
17:00:06 <pchampin> present+
17:00:08 <ktk> present+
17:00:59 <Timothe> present+
17:01:51 <gtw> present+
17:01:59 <remiceres> present+
17:04:11 <AndyS> zakim, who is present?
17:04:11 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AndyS.
17:04:44 <ktk> list attendees
17:04:49 <ktk> Zakim: list attendees
17:05:03 <ktk> zakim, who's here?
17:05:03 <Zakim> Present: enrico, AndyS, ora, pchampin, ktk, Timothe, gtw, remiceres
17:05:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see enrico, ora, remiceres, AndyS, RRSAgent, Zakim, ghurlbot, driib, agendabot, pchampin, Tpt, Timothe, gtw, ktk, rhiaro, csarven
17:06:21 <ktk> Zakim: choose ktk as scribe
17:06:40 <pchampin> scribe: ktk
17:07:59 <ktk> ora: I have two agenda items: Naming thing, email exchange on the list
17:08:51 <Timothe> Unfortunatelly I have to leave. Is present- a thing?
17:09:50 <ktk> Timothe: yes that should work
17:11:02 <Timothe> thanks, and sorry about that
17:11:05 <Timothe> present-
17:11:10 <ktk> ktk: there is a problem with IRC, we will do our best to scribe but several people cannot join IRC right now
17:11:27 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
17:11:36 <ktk> ... zoom will be used for queing for the moment (raise hand)
17:11:56 <ktk> ora: Let's start with naming as first agenda item
17:12:18 <pchampin> topic: naming of the specs
17:12:24 <ktk> ... two weeks ago the proposal was not quite ready.
17:12:56 <ktk> pchampin: I did not realize there is a need to adjust the proposal
17:15:07 <AndyS> q+
17:15:14 <ktk> gkellogg: proposal can be found in issue https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/4
17:16:32 <ktk> q+
17:19:22 <ktk> AndyS: I like the remaining on some of the documents. there seems to be a consensus on the list that we will give advice on modeling with RDF Star. We might need a document for that and it probably should not be a recommendation.
17:19:41 <ktk> ora: I agree this should be a non-normative document.
17:19:56 <AndyS> ack AndyS
17:19:58 <ktk> ... we might form a task group to create an initial draft for that
17:20:15 <AndyS> ack ktk
17:20:19 <pchampin> scribe+
17:20:31 <pchampin> ktk: couldn't the primer document be the place for such best practices?
17:21:18 <ktk> pchampin: I think the 2004 version was a recommendation and it was made a "note" for the 1.1 version
17:21:59 <pchampin> ktk: we also mentionned that we wanted an equivalent to the sparql-overview document for the whole stack
17:22:12 <pchampin> ... would this be a new document? integrated in sparql-overview?
17:22:54 <pchampin> ... My personal preference would be to not add more documents. So recycling the sparql-overview for this.
17:24:16 <ktk> pchampin: +1 on not having too many documents. I would have expected to have RDF primer as the overview
17:24:51 <pchampin> scribe-
17:25:03 <ktk> gkellogg: I agree we should not have too many documents. It could make sense to keep the SPARQL overview as the communities are not necessary the same people
17:25:29 <pchampin> example: https://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-n-aryRelations/
17:25:37 <ktk> ... it does make sense to have something like RDF primer that can give some modelling support.
17:26:43 <ktk> tallted: any individual document should not be overloaded. I think SPARQL is unique enough that we keep the overview doucument.
17:27:11 <ktk> ... we might rename SPARQL-overview to SPARQL-concepts
17:27:27 <Souri_> Souri_ has joined #rdf-star
17:28:07 <ktk> ora: We can re-visit the structure at a later date when we think we got it wrong
17:28:16 <ktk> ... I agree with what Ted said about not overloading documents too much
17:28:39 <ktk> ... the goal should be that there is a clear logical structure for all the documents we have. And we need a starting point for all of these
17:28:55 <ktk> ... after that it's the web, we can link. but there is a place where people can land and find all the related documents
17:29:29 <ktk> ... I propose that with some naming changes (if we need them) we proceed with the structure in the issue
17:29:52 <ktk> ... later on we can decide if the SPARQL-ovierview is/should be part of another document
17:30:13 <ktk> ... renaming it to SPARQL-concepts" is a good idea
17:30:19 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdf-star
17:31:15 <gkellogg> zakim, who's here?
17:31:15 <Zakim> Present: enrico, AndyS, ora, pchampin, ktk, gtw, remiceres
17:31:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see gkellogg, Souri_, Souri, enrico, ora, remiceres, AndyS, RRSAgent, Zakim, ghurlbot, driib, agendabot, pchampin, Tpt, Timothe, gtw, ktk, rhiaro, csarven
17:31:20 <gkellogg> present+
17:32:30 <ktk> strawpoll: Proposal is to continue with the shortnames proposed in the Github issue #4, with the addition to rename SPARQL-overview to SPARQL-concepts
17:32:39 <Souri_> present+
17:32:58 <Souri_> I had to get out of VPN and now it works
17:33:05 <gtw> s/strawpoll/STRAWPOLL/
17:33:06 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/4
17:33:20 <gkellogg> +1
17:33:20 <ora> +1
17:33:25 <enrico> +1
17:33:27 <gtw> +1
17:33:31 <AndyS> +1
17:33:37 <pchampin> +1
17:33:42 <Souri_> +1
17:33:44 <ktk> +1
17:34:34 <pchampin> scribe+
17:34:42 <pchampin> AZ: +0.5 (not convinced about the SPARQL-overview to SPARQL-concepts)
17:34:54 <pchampin> TallTed: +1 strawpoll. Will probably be +1 to proposal based on final results of renaming discussion in the issue.
17:35:03 <pchampin> Doerthe: +1
17:35:11 <pchampin> DominitkT: +1
17:35:12 <ktk> dörtheArndt: +1
17:35:43 <Souri_> I have two connections: Souri and Souri_. How do I get rid of one?
17:35:43 <pchampin> s/dörtheArndt: +1//
17:36:13 <ktk> ora: This looks in favour, by large
17:36:17 <pchampin> scribe-
17:39:24 <ktk> tallted: there is a missmatch between "SPARQL 1.1 Graph Store HTTP Protocol" and the IRI of the document which is named "http-rdf-update" right now
17:39:40 <ktk> ... this could lead to confusion in the new spec. I propose to rename it to Graph Store Protocol in the IRI as well
17:40:32 <ktk> AndyS: this was renamed during the creation of the spec
17:40:45 <ktk> ... (Graph Store Protocol)
17:43:31 <gkellogg> Let's reduce the dependency on HTTP in names and specs, to the degree we can.
17:43:53 <Souri> For uniformity, my vote will go towards RDF-RDFXML.
17:44:05 <ktk> ora: I'm in favour of graph store, on the fence on XML. I can be either way.
17:44:36 <Souri> q+
17:45:35 <pchampin> ghurlbot, names off
17:45:35 <ghurlbot> pchampin, OK.
17:47:11 <ktk> ora: TallTed will do an updated proposal and we discuss it on the mailing list
17:47:49 <ktk> ora: Peter Patell Schneider wrote a mail on the list
17:47:58 <pchampin> topic: Peter Patel-Schneiders message on the mailing list
17:48:18 <ktk> enrico: summarizes what is stated in the mail
17:48:25 <pchampin> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2022Dec/0056.html
17:51:41 <ktk> tallted: I do not see any mentioned on things that were already discussed. We spent a year on things that are discussed here, I don't want to get back to that.
17:51:57 <ktk> s/mentioned/mention/
17:52:58 <Souri> q+
17:53:05 <enrico> q+
17:55:49 <ktk> Souri: I agree with what Ted is saying. No one wants to completely remodel their data once something changes.
17:58:34 <ktk> enrico: not sure I catched your conclusion, please add here for logging
17:59:01 <ktk> ora: my conclusion from this mail is we don't need to go into the dicussion of modal logic.
18:00:53 <pchampin> s/not sure I catched your conclusion, please add here for logging/I disagree with Souri. RDF is not just a data model, it is a knowledge representation language, grounded in model theory. If people have used it in bad ways, we should not encourage them to keep doing it/
18:01:06 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:01:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
18:01:31 <pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/01/12-rdf-star-minutes.html
18:01:33 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:01:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
18:03:09 <pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/12/22-rdf-star-minutes.html
18:03:21 <pchampin> s/previous meeting: previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/12/22-rdf-star-minutes.html//
18:03:31 <pchampin> s/Schneiders/Schneider's/
18:03:41 <pchampin> chair: ora
18:04:34 <pchampin> s/Zakim: choose ktk as scribe//
18:04:38 <pchampin> s/Zakim: list attendees//
18:05:25 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:05:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
18:06:29 <pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2022/12/22-rdf-star-minutes.html
18:06:33 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:06:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/05-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
18:22:08 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdf-star
18:23:35 <gkellogg_> gkellogg_ has joined #rdf-star
18:40:50 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdf-star