15:06:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
15:06:59 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-irc
15:07:44 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
15:10:12 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-td
15:11:25 <sebastian> brb
15:13:04 <Ege_> Meeting: WoT Thing Description
15:13:21 <Ege_> chair: Ege_Korkan, Sebastian_Kaebisch
15:17:19 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#December_21.2C_2022
15:18:06 <kaz> s/Meeting: WoT Thing Description/Meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF/
15:19:24 <sebastian> back
15:20:45 <kaz> s/back//
15:21:33 <sebastian> topic: Minutes
15:21:40 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Koster, Sebastian_Kaebisch
15:21:42 <sebastian> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/12/07-wot-td-minutes.html
15:21:50 <kaz> s/html/html Dec-7/
15:24:38 <sebastian> any objections?
15:24:47 <sebastian> no
15:24:56 <sebastian> minutes approved
15:25:18 <sebastian> topic: Testfest results
15:25:53 <sebastian> EK: please check the at-risk list
15:26:31 <sebastian> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/testing/atrisk.csv
15:26:54 <sebastian> EK: still some assertions where we need implementations
15:27:10 <kaz> q+
15:28:30 <sebastian> Kaz: we should clearify what is really problematic
15:29:26 <dape> q+
15:29:58 <sebastian> q+
15:30:07 <kaz> ack k
15:30:33 <sebastian> DP: is it about the manuel or auto check?
15:30:38 <dape> ack dape
15:32:09 <sebastian> Kaz: we should clearify why implementator have done and not done implementations
15:32:47 <kaz> q+
15:32:57 <sebastian> ack s
15:34:00 <sebastian> SK: I understood that we should take care all yeallow highlighted assertions and ask implementators why they have trouble in implementaions
15:37:21 <kaz> ack k
15:37:27 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:37:37 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
15:37:37 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Koster, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:38:15 <sebastian> Kaz: we should have a table which shows which data came from. We can double check or ask the implementors
15:38:26 <sebastian> q+
15:38:34 <Ege_> q?
15:41:05 <sebastian> SK: I think we already have very good results so far. Still time to have implementions for the remeaning assertations
15:41:51 <sebastian> Kaz: for TD this is true, we should also consider Discovery and Architecture which has more missing assertions
15:42:09 <kaz> s/this is/that is/
15:42:17 <kaz> s/, we/, but we/
15:43:14 <kaz> q+
15:43:17 <sebastian> <EK edits the at-risk file>
15:45:07 <kaz> ack s
15:45:07 <kaz> ack k
15:45:11 <sebastian> SK: lets check the results of Architecture
15:45:31 <sebastian> <EK shows the latest IR results>
15:47:02 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/testing/report11.html latest Implementation for WoT Architecture as an example
15:47:26 <cris_> agree
15:49:18 <Ege_> https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture#arch-security-consideration-communication-platform
15:49:47 <kaz> i|https|31: arch-security-consideration-communication-platform|
15:49:57 <sebastian> SK: most likely we have already more implemtations of the asserations. Each TD that was generated for a device have to fullfill the security requirements, otherwise you are not able to interact
15:52:35 <sebastian> <Ege setups an issue to dicuss the missing asserations>
15:53:00 <dape> q+
15:53:08 <kaz> q+
15:53:12 <dape> ack dape
15:54:00 <cris_> q+
15:54:31 <cris_> ack c
15:54:38 <kaz> ack k
15:55:31 <cris_> q+
15:57:02 <cris_> ack cris_
15:57:33 <kaz> kaz: I don't think we're requiring people to implement device virtualization like VMware but using WoT Thing Description to describe device capability is already a kind of abstraction here
15:57:51 <kaz> s/but/but do think/
16:00:26 <kaz> (all check some more assertions)
16:00:31 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/888
16:01:16 <kaz> s/more assertions/more assertions, and create an Issue for wot-architecture)
16:01:24 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
16:09:43 <kaz> s/888/888 wot-architecture issue 888 - Evaluating At Risk Assertions/
16:12:54 <kaz> (Ege records the comments within the issue 888 above)
16:13:00 <kaz> rrsagent, make lg public
16:13:00 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make lg public', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:13:05 <kaz> s/rrsagent, make lg public//
16:13:08 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
16:13:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:13:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:13:28 <kaz> q+
16:14:34 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-td
16:14:35 <kaz> ack k
16:14:53 <sebastian> sorry, I had computer problem and needed to restart
16:14:58 <kaz> kaz: let's check with Lagallly based on this comment tomorrow during the Architecture call
16:15:01 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1758
16:15:13 <kaz> i/https/topic: TD/
16:15:54 <kaz> i/https/subtopic: PR 1758/
16:16:07 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
16:16:48 <sebastian> I can take minutes again
16:16:58 <kaz> s/1758/1758 PR 1758 - Updating at risk assertions in the main body/
16:17:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:17:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:17:49 <sebastian> EK: there is still OAuth2 code flow implementation needed
16:17:57 <kaz> s/brb//
16:17:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:18:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:18:13 <sebastian> topic: Binding Templates
16:18:14 <kaz> i/don't think w/scribenick: kaz/
16:18:33 <sebastian> subtopic: PRs
16:18:34 <kaz> s/sorry, I had computer problem and needed to restart//
16:18:45 <kaz> s/I can take minutes again//
16:18:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:18:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:19:51 <sebastian> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/223
16:20:14 <kaz> s/223/223 PR 223 - Orphaned Section Reorg - Part 1: Protocols/
16:20:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:20:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:20:29 <sebastian> EK: split commits into meaningful sections
16:21:37 <sebastian> <EK shows what the PR will change in the document>
16:21:42 <kaz> q+
16:22:47 <sebastian> q+
16:23:03 <sebastian> Kaz: thanks for your efford
16:23:42 <kaz> ack k
16:24:11 <sebastian> ... does it make sense to move the orphan section back the the main document?
16:24:34 <kaz> s/efford/effort/
16:26:37 <sebastian> EK: I would prefer as is. It easer for readers
16:26:42 <kaz> s/does it make sense to move the orphan section back the the main document?/which would be easier, (1) this way (=putting the "orphaned sections" from the Appendix back to the main body of the current Editor's draft or (2) once revert to the published version of the Note, which includes all the "orphaned sections" already in it./
16:26:59 <kaz> s/in it/in it and then add necessary changes based on that/
16:27:05 <sebastian> SK: not sure about the term "orphaned". Should be this used in a spec document?
16:27:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:27:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:27:44 <kaz> q+
16:27:44 <kaz> ack s
16:28:08 <kaz> ack k
16:28:35 <sebastian> EK: can also say uncategorized or temprary sections
16:29:16 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/224
16:29:38 <kaz> s/about the term "orphaned"/if the term "orphaned" is appropriate here/
16:29:54 <kaz> s/Should be this/Should this be/
16:30:03 <sebastian> EK: last time we also said that we should start working on a surcay to get feedback from developers
16:30:17 <sebastian> s/surcay/survey
16:31:08 <kaz> q+
16:31:17 <sebastian> <EK shows the draft feedback survey of the PR>
16:32:55 <sebastian> Kaz: getting feedback is important for next WG, however, we should address more broader stakeholders
16:34:31 <sebastian> ... we should think who we want to contact rather than which meaöinglist we like to use
16:34:42 <sebastian> s/meaöinglist/mailinglist
16:36:10 <sebastian> ... we should think about Echonet, Microsoft, etc in this discussion
16:36:43 <kaz> ack k
16:36:52 <sebastian> EK: are there other feedbacks?
16:37:06 <kaz> s/we should think/for example, we should think/
16:37:37 <sebastian> ... which tool should be use? From W3C?
16:37:48 <sebastian> Kaz: anything is fine
16:38:16 <sebastian> s/use/used
16:39:22 <kaz> s/we like/we'd like/
16:39:29 <sebastian> .. if there are quirenstions I can create W3C questionnaire
16:41:41 <kaz> s/if there are quirenstions/if you can clarify the questions and the style,/
16:41:46 <kaz> q+
16:42:06 <kaz> ack k
16:42:10 <sebastian> s/quirenstions/questions
16:42:15 <sebastian> topic: TD
16:42:44 <sebastian> SK: we need a resolution about the ReSpec errors
16:43:40 <sebastian> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/publication/ver11/5-cr/#toc
16:44:24 <sebastian> SK: proposal is to use the "ignore" solution as given by ReSpec. Also agreed this in the charis call
16:44:24 <kaz> [[
16:44:25 <kaz> * Normative reference to "base direction" found but term is defined "informatively" in "i18n-glossary".
16:44:25 <kaz>   How to fix: You can do one of the following...
16:44:25 <kaz>   * Get the source definition to be made normative
16:44:25 <kaz>   * Add a class="lint-ignore" attribute to the link.
16:44:25 <kaz>   * Use a local normative proxy for the definition à la <dfn data-cite="spec">term</dfn>
16:44:27 <kaz>   To silence this warning entirely, set lint: { "informative-dfn": false } in your respecConfig.
16:44:29 <kaz>   Occurred 1 times at:
16:44:31 <kaz>   <a> element
16:44:35 <kaz> * Normative reference to "first-strong detection" found but term is defined "informatively" in "i18n-glossary".
16:44:38 <kaz>   How to fix: You can do one of the following...
16:44:40 <kaz>   * Get the source definition to be made normative
16:44:42 <kaz>   * Add a class="lint-ignore" attribute to the link.
16:44:44 <kaz>   * Use a local normative proxy for the definition à la <dfn data-cite="spec">term</dfn>
16:44:46 <kaz>   To silence this warning entirely, set lint: { "informative-dfn": false } in your respecConfig.
16:44:48 <kaz>   Occurred 1 times at:
16:44:50 <kaz>   <a> element
16:44:52 <kaz> * Normative reference to "base direction" found but term is defined "informatively" in "i18n-glossary".
16:44:54 <kaz>   How to fix: You can do one of the following...
16:44:56 <kaz>   * Get the source definition to be made normative
16:44:58 <kaz>   * Add a class="lint-ignore" attribute to the link.
16:45:00 <kaz>   * Use a local normative proxy for the definition à la <dfn data-cite="spec">term</dfn>
16:45:02 <kaz>   To silence this warning entirely, set lint: { "informative-dfn": false } in your respecConfig.
16:45:06 <kaz>   Occurred 1 times at:
16:45:08 <kaz>   <a> element
16:45:10 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
16:45:10 <kaz> ]]
16:45:12 <kaz> kaz: we should fix index.html and index.template.html at wot-thing-description
16:45:48 <kaz> ... and index.html at wot-thing-description/publications/5-cr
16:45:58 <sebastian> EK: I can help here until tomorrow.
16:47:00 <kaz> s/until/by/
16:47:03 <sebastian> SK: we should do a resolution about decission
16:47:19 <sebastian> s/decission/our decission
16:47:27 <sebastian> Kaz: yes
16:47:34 <Ege_> proposal: In order to avoid ReSpec errors, the TF decided to add class="lint-ignore" to usage of "base direction" and "first-strong detection" definitions in the document
16:47:43 <kaz> s/decission/decision/
16:47:49 <sebastian> +1
16:48:02 <Ege_> RESOLUTION: In order to avoid ReSpec errors, the TF decided to add class="lint-ignore" to usage of "base direction" and "first-strong detection" definitions in the document
16:49:50 <kaz> (Ege and Sebastian handle the files at wot-thing-description, Kaz will handle the files at wot-thing-description/publications/5-cr)
16:51:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:51:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:51:35 <sebastian> here is the -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1759
16:51:54 <sebastian> s/here is the/here is the 'reminder' issue
16:51:55 <kaz> i/need a resolution/subtopic: Publication/
16:52:32 <kaz> i|1759|subtopic: Issue 1759|
16:53:35 <kaz> s|subtopic: Issue 1759||
16:53:35 <sebastian> subtopic: PR 1684 - Fix shacl, context and ontology
16:53:45 <sebastian> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1684
16:54:32 <sebastian> EK: we will merge it after CR publication
16:54:57 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1350
16:55:12 <sebastian> subtopic: 'Propose closing' issues
16:55:36 <kaz> s/subtopic: 'Propose closing' issues//
16:55:40 <sebastian> EK: no objections -> close
16:55:41 <kaz> i|1350|subtopic: 'Propose closing' issues|
16:56:09 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
16:56:53 <sebastian> ok, many thanks for your support this year. Merry Christmas and happy new year :-)
16:57:06 <kaz> s/1350/1350 Issue 1350 - Review use cases document / align terminology / identify gaps|
16:57:11 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1759
16:57:16 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1518
16:57:38 <sebastian> EK: both issues are redundant. I will close 1518
16:58:20 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1759|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1759 Issue 1759 - Reminder: ReSpec fixes|
16:58:25 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1539
16:58:42 <sebastian> s/https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1539/-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1539
16:58:52 <sebastian> EK: any objections?
16:58:52 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1518|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1518 Issue 1518 - ReSpec Warnings - Normative reference defined in informative document|
16:58:54 <sebastian> no
16:59:01 <sebastian> will be close
16:59:04 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:59:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:59:11 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1747
16:59:20 <sebastian> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1747
16:59:44 <sebastian> EK: decide to close
17:00:07 <kaz> s|s/https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1539/-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1539||
17:00:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:00:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
17:01:39 <kaz> i|any objections|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1539 Issue 1539 - At risk section in TD|
17:02:37 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1747|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1747 Issue 1747 - Add a warning about the "other" Thing Model specification|
17:02:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:02:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
17:03:26 <kaz> i|Dec-7|scribenick: sebastian|
17:03:51 <kaz> i|EK: there is still|scribenick: sebastian|
17:04:04 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
17:04:35 <kaz> [adjourned]
17:04:36 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:05:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/21-wot-td-minutes.html kaz