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16:05:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/12/19-pronunciation-irc
16:05:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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16:05:42 <trackbot> Meeting: Spoken Pronunciation Task Force Teleconference
16:05:42 <trackbot> Date: 19 December 2022
16:05:48 <IrfanAli> present+
16:06:53 <IrfanAli> janina: it is important to figure out the next action items for this task force
16:07:18 <IrfanAli> janina: we can talk about our calendar.
16:07:38 <IrfanAli> agenda+ Holiday calendar
16:07:54 <IrfanAli> agenda+ plan for closing on technical direction
16:08:04 <IrfanAli> agenda+ other business
16:08:14 <IrfanAli> scribe: IrfanAli
16:08:20 <IrfanAli> zakim, who is here?
16:08:20 <Zakim> Present: IrfanAli
16:08:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, IrfanAli, janina, Sarah_Wood, becky, MichaelC, mdaliahmed5733, Mike5Matrix, Github, jcraig, trackbot
16:08:31 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
16:08:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Holiday calendar -- taken up [from IrfanAli]
16:09:14 <IrfanAli> janina: we are meeting on Monday which means we are not meeting on January 2nd but we will be meeting on 9th
16:09:40 <IrfanAli> janina: another holiday is Martin Luther on January 16. May be we will be meeting 23rd
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16:09:55 <NeilS> present+
16:10:02 <IrfanAli> janina: Proposing meeting on 9th and 23rd
16:10:42 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
16:10:42 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- plan for closing on technical direction -- taken up [from IrfanAli]
16:12:02 <IrfanAli> janina: we heard from WHATWG that they would entertain thing as native component. when we discussed the draft message, we talked if thats the direction if we want to go considering SR questions.
16:12:19 <IrfanAli> janina: we needed to have this discussion here within this group to ensure the direction
16:13:33 <IrfanAli> janina: we had discussion outside of the group at APA planning. It is heavy lift for SR to parsing. we find that this is optimal overall for various use cases. Do we thing there is another way to move forward of being able to PDA or so forth. we need to have that figure out
16:14:13 <IrfanAli> s/we thing/we think
16:15:19 <IrfanAli> NeilS: this discussion happened almost 2 years ago and I think we need to circle back and ask these questions to SR vendors
16:16:10 <IrfanAli> mhakkinen: may be it is time to create a poll to present the approaches to SR vendors if they would do any of them or all of them
16:16:48 <IrfanAli> janina: it doesnt need to be only SR. but we need to independent implementation
16:16:59 <IrfanAli> s/need to/ need two
16:17:14 <IrfanAli> paulG: what is any changes need to be made in AX tree
16:17:51 <IrfanAli> NeilS: I dont know how hard it is for them to go back to original DOM but it is worth to ask this question to browser vendor
16:18:06 <IrfanAli> Paulg: it makes more sense to ask this questionf rom them than just sending a poll
16:18:28 <IrfanAli> PaulG: asking what is the accessible name in AX tree
16:18:42 <IrfanAli> NeilS: this is good point to know what is it mapped to
16:18:53 <IrfanAli> janina: I dont recall if we ever defined that
16:19:22 <IrfanAli> NeilS: I dont know what would it map pronunciation to
16:20:04 <IrfanAli> janina: updating the Ax tree would be helpful here
16:20:54 <IrfanAli> PaulG: we would have to have a discussion with browser vendors and AT vendors to understand creating new works
16:21:33 <IrfanAli> PaulG: role could be a role but it would be a new role like break role.. which will be new to AT, browser..
16:21:41 <IrfanAli> NeilS: attribute has to go somewhere
16:21:57 <IrfanAli> PaulG: anything is gotta go to axtree... it involves lot of mapping
16:22:24 <IrfanAli> PaulG: the laternative is that AT has to parse everything and for that reason they have lot to do
16:22:35 <IrfanAli> s/laternative/alternative
16:23:14 <IrfanAli> janina: we are syaing that we are just about AT and not path forward for PDAs because I dont see them looking at axtree or how they pronounce something. Am I wrong about that?
16:23:42 <IrfanAli> PaulG: no. they already processing SSML given to them by API
16:26:01 <IrfanAli> janina: do we have easy names for various direction we are pointing to? we should start with internal group such as WCIG. we have this proposal for WHATWG that they can accept. what do we call other ways to go back to this.
16:27:38 <IrfanAli> PaulG: we had single attr, multiple attr, and SSML native as first class object. and then each of those could be crossed with metrics with AT parsing for axtree solutions. we actually have six options. three ways for authors to add the info. two path forward for how it would process by speech tech
16:28:26 <IrfanAli> PaulG: either way AT is going to do heavy lift.
16:29:44 <IrfanAli> paulG: they probably are not trained to parse JSON so single attr is difficult  compare to multiple attr because it is just DOM parsing
16:31:14 <IrfanAli> PaulG: SSML is native to those technologies. some of it has its prop. such as Amazon has a list. if we can get SSML parsing to the axtree by the user agent then I have pretty high hope that it could be a path forward. But then question who should we get involved
16:32:48 <IrfanAli> PaulG: if the AT vendors are fine with processing SSML for speech, and if it is all on axtree, experience will be different for AT vendors
16:33:20 <IrfanAli> NeilS: other issues could be related to speech engines because they all dont suppose SSML
16:33:30 <IrfanAli> s/suppose/support
16:33:55 <IrfanAli> NeilS: JAWS doesn't work with android
16:34:32 <IrfanAli> NeilS: ANdroid is using modern speech engines that support SSML. My main point was that you need to ship SSML to speech engines
16:34:47 <IrfanAli> PaulG: there may be voice packages
16:36:22 <IrfanAli> PaulG: looks like there are more decisions to make. DO we want to use the time between 9 and now to determine with if we have anyway to comeup with data driven approach
16:36:46 <IrfanAli> janina: that shoulds like a good simple question
16:36:59 <IrfanAli> PaulG: we give them choice between self parse or user agent parse
16:37:14 <IrfanAli> NeilS: sounds reasonable
16:37:37 <IrfanAli> janina: should we also ask why?
16:37:52 <IrfanAli> PaulG: one survey question and one already filled option
16:38:04 <IrfanAli> NeilS: are you planning to send survey or just an email
16:38:13 <IrfanAli> PaulG: this is the question of our strategy
16:38:38 <IrfanAli> NeilS: seems liek you are more likely to get informed response if we have a personal contacts
16:38:50 <IrfanAli> s/liel/like/
16:39:14 <IrfanAli> NeilS: I think we know people at vispero or NVDA. do we know decision makers at orca?
16:39:40 <IrfanAli> NeilS: at Apple is it James Craig? in that case we have reasonable contacts
16:40:37 <IrfanAli> mhakkinen: perhaps MS narrator and Peter Corn at Amazon
16:41:19 <IrfanAli> PaulG: I will send a DRAFT and you guys work on personal contacts and perhaps we have a plan for the next year
16:41:46 <IrfanAli> janina: at what point do we need to go back to WHATWG. should be engage them with this or after this poll?
16:42:31 <IrfanAli> PaulG: depends how this survey goes. we could use the leverage the survey asking them if they have preference for self parsing VS user agent parsing
16:44:21 <IrfanAli> zakim, other business
16:44:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'other business', IrfanAli
16:44:28 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
16:44:28 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- other business -- taken up [from IrfanAli]
16:45:08 <IrfanAli> janina, re chartring. we may need to look into our deliverables. before July 31st 2023 we would like to update our charter
16:45:48 <IrfanAli> janina: we do not want to get stuck like last time. we have reasons to believe that we may be have charter in may/june, depending our deliverables
16:46:23 <IrfanAli> janina: our goal is not to be out of charter but we are not looking for any extension. we are going to look for the DRAFT in github
16:46:31 <IrfanAli> rrsagent, make minutes
16:46:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/19-pronunciation-minutes.html IrfanAli
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